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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Twinnstars said:
Right, but this tells Isan that elemental mastery is a nuke. Why would they ever stop keeping it in their back pockets now?

We're a conspiracy, we want to solve this with as few people involved as possible. My way solves the EM issue without alerting an existing power bloc that they're sitting on nukes. If we tell Isan this they will instantly turn against us lmfao.

Why wouldn't they? They'll have learned that they're actually one of the strongest forces in the world, given 6 months.
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It doesn't seem like they were suggesting that we inform Isan that EM is a nuke. Just to talk with the leaders and say something like "in the spirit of AMITY we are donating these utility jutsu for every nation sorry that this makes EM worthless but here's something else to make up for that." The idea is to smooth feathers preemptively about making EM worthless by providing some other compensation.

Whether or not this is something to do in the first place I'm not necessarily convinced. We could just donate the utility jutsu as a smokescreen first and then if Isan gets upset some compensation is given and hopefully not signal that EM is important in any way.
 
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@Shrooms
Can you put a link to your plan in your vote?
Or a more safer option would be to move your plan to your vote. I don't think the QMs accept links.

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one time-sensitive aspect about isan. is they mentioned capturing and interrogating isan soon. that will make cooperation more difficult, so if we want a cooperation route should act soon.
 
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Isan isn't going to care that we make EM worthless to trade. They don't think it's valuable right now. The only thing, *only thing* getting ahead of this will do is let Isan know that EM is worth getting upset about.
 
Twinnstars said:
They don't think it's valuable right now.
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They believe it has literally some value - marginal or trivial but some.

Throwing out 'hey maybe offer them something' lets experts make the decisions in a way that not mentioning this doesn't. Asuma and Shikamaru can debrief everyone who was present for them teaching Akane to determine how much Isan values it and then, if they see fit, someone with socials can work with Yuno to craft an offer that won't offend them, raise eyebrows, or make it a point of national pride.

We shouldn't filter potential solutions or problems if they're literally possible. We're here to brainstorm. We can narrow down later. For now, we should propose anything we can think of IMO.
 
Personally, I'm not too much of a fan of straight-up giving Isan EMv2; it goes against ninja preconceptions too much. But we don't have to give Isan EM, we just need to get them to use it.

I've been juggling the idea of Asuma letting Isan pull one over on Leaf for jutsu exchange, like how we got made when we first got EM; then have Leaf 'retaliate' by inventing a better jutsu in response and making it widespread. Or something along those lines.

I haven't gotten that far in how we'd spread it to Isan, though; my best plan involves Leaf humblebragging in retaliation, but that doesn't encourage Isan to use EM v2.
 
Shrooms said:
[X] Action Plan: Three Scenes, One Plan
Word Count: 273
  • Uplift+Yuno (and Toad Sages, if willing.)
    • Relay Enma's info.
      • Persuasion is crucial. With Conclave's help, remaining Dragons could be killed.
      • From Dog, Hazou wants to travel to Conclave alongside Kei and Noburi, evoking Sannin mystique as Enma recommended. Noburi needs to escort his Toad ambassador to Dog ASAP.
        • Both trips require Hyenas' approval for territory travel.
    • General approach to Conclave is to unify against a common threat. Currently, Eastern clans don't consider threat existential. Enma wants a fire lit under their asses. Hazou is considering capturing a small Archaeopteryx gthsss to present, though it will be challenging.
    • Are Kei/Noburi onboard? Do they have feedback?
    • With group's approval, relay to Cannai, then Kumokogo.
  • Cannai
    • Go over the above.
    • Get approval for:
      • Overall plan.
      • Negotiating passage through Hyena Territory
      • Noburi escorting a Toad to Dog.
      • Moving a gthsss through Dog.
      • Seeking out candidates (for Cannai's approval) for escorts/representatives for Conclave. What are his criteria?
    • Gthsss
      • Do you have relevant lore?
      • Are they different from kvthsss? Can it be reversed?
      • Are there cultural taboos surrounding Hazou's capture plan?
      • Does that happen when a Boss dies or only when Dragons eats them?
  • Kumokogo
    • Relay plan + Cannai's comments. Ask gthsss questions, get necessary permissions.
    • Could Arachnids move a gthsssto Dog via boat if Hazou captured one?
      • Check if Enma can help, if Kumokogo approves.
      • Check if Inuzuka have advice/tools.
    • If Kumokogo wants to send Ambassadors, Hazou can escort them.
  • Misc (Offscreen)
    • Get remaining Leaf Summoners to the Conclave to bolster Hazou's arguments.
      • Work with Asuma and other Summoners to arrange as much presence as possible, start optimizing our arrival/speech.
    • Complete Chakdar 2.0.

Bumping this

Not opposed to immediate EM reply but imo it's also okay to do that after this plan. The Conclave stuff is still very urgent and the sooner we start prepping for that the better.
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roobee said:
Can you put a link to your plan in your vote?
Or a more safer option would be to move your plan to your vote. I don't think the QMs accept links.
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It should link here, but ig since I pasted the title a second time it linked that one for some reason. Deleted the second link so should be fixed now
 
Sir Stompy said:
They do not follow their targets around 24/7 for years at a time.
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Don't need 24/7. Just an occasional check up to see if they're leveling EM.

Sir Stompy said:
We would need literally one spy for every person we suspect might learn EM. A technique that, may I point out, 1/5 of all ninja can learn! Leaf doesn't have that many ninja. Leaf especially doesn't have that many infiltration specs that can live in a hostile foreign village forever since once the target learns the jutsu, the spy could never leave, lest their target take up a sudden interest.
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This is not true nor what I said. We would tail those who got traded the jutsu and learned it. We don't need to spy on everyone, just those who actually have a chance of learning it.

Sir Stompy said:
Tbh this is such a bad take I'm not sure if you're trolling.
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Neither, just a drastic misinterpretation.
 
Sir Stompy said:
Seals are a crappy excuse for justu to most ninja. I don't think they'd be interested tbh. This is supposed to be better and jutsu are better than seals to most ninja.

Also for jutsu where you never level it past 10 and get the full benefit. Jutsu are better. So they're not wrong.
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Took me a minute to see the problem here. I think we see it differently or are coming at it from different angles.

I wasn't necessarily coming at this from an exclusively weapon perspective, but as a quality of life tool.

EM is chakra cheap and requires little time investment when kept at levels intended. I was thinking its limitations would be what the seals could account for.

Goketsu already has a habit of wanting to introduce things like hot tub seals, saving wood, reheating some warm meal you forgot you left out, or applying heat in a narrower shape or area. They're not really weapons, just creature comforts most ninja won't know they even want until there introduced.

Plus it's generally Uplifty outside of Leaf.

FaintlySorcerous said:
We know that Harumitsu, budding research sealmaster, was able to accomplish part of this. As a practical matter we just need to make the inverse of his seal and then we're set. Heck, it's possible we could even delegate this, or that the kid already has it on the books.

The issue is flooding the market to a point where this becomes an appreciable factor. Why would Isan buy our seals (or even produce them in large enough numbers that EM goes out of style) when they already have EM and can use it costlessly? Our seals aren't better. Seals only compete with jutsu for us because they're so cheap - we have Explosives: Yes in our inventory. For most people, if you have to choose between using a seal or using a jutsu you already know, you're going to use the jutsu because it's free.
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I think EM seal and EM v2 jutsu will target different things. I guess we could do both. Like I said above, I think the seal will be less of a weapon and more of a tool like a telescope.

No reason we can't tackle the issue on two fronts.
 
[X] Action Plan: Three Scenes, One Plan
[X] Action Plan: Planned Obsolescence
[X] Action Plan: The Federalist Option

I like all of these plans because they uniformly doesn't include killing a bunch of innocent people. However, I think we're forgetting something obvious:

"Regarding Kei, the two of you know her better than I do," he said, looking side to side at Hazō and Shikamaru. "I'll leave the choice to you of whether or not to include her in our planning."
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Let's loop in Mari, Akane and Kei *right now*. Even if we don't want to have everyone in to crowd the scene (Mari isn't a diplomat and she may favor being an operative rather than being the decision maker), I really want Akane and Kei to be here. Akane has co-responsibility with any destruction that stems from this, she could use experience in making her voice heard and her conscience can be a guiding force. With Kei, there would be no need for us to rely on Shika to check our plan when we have our main girl in the room.
 
Orisha91 said:
Took me a minute to see the problem here. I think we see it differently or are coming at it from different angles.

I wasn't necessarily coming at this from an exclusively weapon perspective, but as a quality of life tool.

EM is chakra cheap and requires little time investment when kept at levels intended. I was thinking its limitations would be what the seals could account for.

Goketsu already has a habit of wanting to introduce things like hot tub seals, saving wood, reheating some warm meal you forgot you left out, or applying heat in a narrower shape or area. They're not really weapons, just creature comforts most ninja won't know they even want until there introduced.

Plus it's generally Uplifty outside of Leaf.
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Jutsu are better than seals because you don't have to pay a sealmaster every time you want the effect. Chakra is free (for most ninja, Wakahisa change that but bear with me) seals are very expensive for most ninja.

EM is especially great as a jutsu because the best thing about seals is that you don't need to expend XP and chakra to create the effect. This is absolutely bonkers amazing (hence Hazou's build) but it has its limitations. EM is very inexpensive in terms of XP and chakra so it doesn't make sense to turn it into a seal.

If there are other limitations that you had in mind, feel free to list them, but I don't think they'll be more impactful than that.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Training Plan: Hazou Notes
[X] Training Plan: Noburi Notes
[X] Training Plan: Akane Notes Plus Extra Ten Stat

@Shrooms can you edit your action plan to specify that it should take place before the current conversation with Shika and Asuma?

@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien can you confirm that's a thing we can do?
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Do we have an answer to this? Because i like shrooms plan, but i don't want Hazou to simply say nothing at the very important meeting Asuma invited us to.

[X] Action Plan: Three Scenes, One Plan
[X] Training Plan: Hazou Notes
[X] Training Plan: Noburi Notes
[X] Training Plan: Akane Notes Plus Extra Ten Stat
 
I've added the disclaimer that it should take place before the Asuma meeting, but I'm still not certain that's allowed or not
 
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