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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sir Stompy said:
Why will they not think it's a sealin@ failure? Seems like the obvious answer to me.
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When was the last time this happened without a death toll?

Has there been a non-apocryphal (i.e., Whirlpool) failure like this in the last 50 years?

Maybe they include it in the list of possibilities but they don't discard other explanations as possibilities. We took out a chasm-span with what looked like massive Earth Bullets (sensei and some ANBU dropped rocks on one in a war at some point) and we made it possible to walk on air. There's a real possibility this wasn't a failure and that will be noted by powerful people.
 
Let's talk briefly about the ES improvement.

Doesn't density mean we can start to produce...well, really weird stuff? Really weird stuff?
 
faflec said:
If you don't want to do both and can't be convinced, then I would remove the references to written information on how to replicate EM nukes. That's an existential risk beyond reproach and counterproductive to our plan to cover up the evidence. A Shadow Clone conversation is a faux pas but not insurmoutable.

I don't think Shikamaru would assassinate us, however; the fact that it was possible for an otherwise-unremarkable person to do implies that literally anyone could do it.

Actually, can we talk with Kei first? She's less likely to respond with MURDER HAZOU and isn't likely at all to tell Ami about our nuke.
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Okay, I've removed both lines about the 'write up all we know in case we mysteriously die' part of the plan. We still show up as a shadow clone, to deter any inclinations to immediately capture us in a shadow jutsu or somesuch, but we can evaluate whether dead man's switches are needed after we see how Shika reacts.
Inferno Vulpix said:
Wordcount: 242
[X] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
  • Talk with Akane
    • I will defuse the situation via Shikamaru and/or Asuma.
    • I will never order you to use that move.
  • Meet with Shikamaru
    • As a Shadow Clone, for safety.
    • Keep information revealed to a minimum (no details). Clam up if pressed, and remind Shikamaru of the stakes.
    • The anomaly was our handiwork, and we think it could be replicated.
      • Its discovery was accidental, however. We did not expect destruction anywhere near this calibre.
    • It is not an enemy attack or an extradimensional incursion.
    • I have no intention to reuse the attack.
    • The world cannot learn of this. No matter the cost.
    • I humbly request your help.
  • Follow Shikamaru's lead for the coverup.
    • He is more trustworthy than us and, if he is pressed, he does not know any details.
    • If our presence and account is needed, do so at Shikamaru's discretion.
  • When Mari comes back, inform her of the nuke (only absolutely vital details).
    • We want her to help us keep the secret, in concert with Shikamaru. The world must not know.
Edit: we meet Shikamaru as a Shadow Clone, so that he can't defect and assassinate us even if he was inclined to.
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I'm also a bit leery about Kei in the conversation. She may be less inclined to hostile action, but we'd still need to talk to Shikamaru afterwards so Kei would just represent another point where the intel could possibly leak from. In situations like these, nobody wants to spread the info far and wide, but everyone has a small chance they slip up somehow and every new person is an additional vector for that. So imo best not, unless Shikamaru thinks he needs Kei's counsel.
 
Kiba said:
Elaborate?
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I want to find an emerald or similar stone and find out what happens if we compress it.

I want to take the purest dust or powder we can find, separate it by density, form it into one shape, and then compress it.

I want to experiment with expansion within constrained areas. Can we ape cast metal through the placement and then expansion of stone within a mold?

I also think that high-density low-thickness material could have novel uses.

I also want to revisit projectiles.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Okay, I've removed both lines about the 'write up all we know in case we mysteriously die' part of the plan. We still show up as a shadow clone, to deter any inclinations to immediately capture us in a shadow jutsu or somesuch, but we can evaluate whether dead man's switches are needed after we see how Shika reacts.
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Respectfully, i fully disa_ree with the lack of deadman switches in case of dead. We can make it coded, or not leave traces, or leave the scroll in Do_/with Cannai for Noburi to pick up or anythin_ else.
We can make it safer, or don't mention it to Shikamaru as a _esture of trust ,but the lack of deadman switch is dan_erous, there is a reason Ami was never assassinated, and it is this.

@faflec is there a way i could convice you? Maybe by makin_ sure there is no proof of the sharin_ of information?

[X] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
 
[X] Action Plan: Don't Wait

Fantastic plan @FaintlySorcerous! Is it possible to add a bit to use Shadow Clone to try and talk to Mari at the same time as we make our report to Asuma?

@Inferno Vulpix
[] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
Main opposition: I don't think we should commit to "we will never ask you to use this technique". There are likely situations where it would be reasonable. First example that comes to mind is Na7i Island, but there could be others. We shouldn't make promises we're not sure we can keep.

I also personally think we SHOULD still have the deadman's switch but that's not a dealbreaker. Even if not for Shikamaru whom we trust, it is a defence for others who will think similarly once it's known we were involved (easy example: the Mori)
 
Lord Marshal said:
Respectfully, i fully disa_ree with the lack of deadman switches in case of dead. We can make it coded, or not leave traces, or leave the scroll in Do_/with Cannai for Noburi to pick up or anythin_ else.
We can make it safer, or don't mention it to Shikamaru as a _esture of trust ,but the lack of deadman switch is dan_erous, there is a reason Ami was never assassinated, and it is this.

@faflec is there a way i could convice you? Maybe by makin_ sure there is no proof of the sharin_ of information?

[X] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
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I don't hate deadmans switches, I just hate deadmans switches that involve proliferation of this information.

Make a deadmans switch that doesn't involve EM nukes and I'm more likely to support it.
 
Lord Marshal said:
Respectfully, i fully disa_ree with the lack of deadman switches in case of dead. We can make it coded, or not leave traces, or leave the scroll in Do_/with Cannai for Noburi to pick up or anythin_ else.
We can make it safer, or don't mention it to Shikamaru as a _esture of trust ,but the lack of deadman switch is dan_erous, there is a reason Ami was never assassinated, and it is this.

@faflec is there a way i could convice you? Maybe by makin_ sure there is no proof of the sharin_ of information?

[X] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
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My intention is that we don't set up the dead man's switch now, before we meet Shikamaru. If, as we meet him, it looks like we may need them, we can set them up afterwards. At the very least, the hope is that this makes the initial conversation more cooperative before we need to re-assess our situation.

I don't intend to leave us defenseless. I do hope to optimize the odds that Shikamaru cooperates. Does this seem reasonable?
ting said:
[X] Action Plan: Don't Wait

Fantastic plan @FaintlySorcerous! Is it possible to add a bit to use Shadow Clone to try and talk to Mari at the same time as we make our report to Asuma?

@Inferno Vulpix
[] Action Plan: The Nara Keep Secrets Worse Than These
Main opposition: I don't think we should commit to "we will never ask you to use this technique". There are likely situations where it would be reasonable. First example that comes to mind is Na7i Island, but there could be others. We shouldn't make promises we're not sure we can keep.

I also personally think we SHOULD still have the deadman's switch but that's not a dealbreaker. Even if not for Shikamaru whom we trust, it is a defence for others who will think similarly once it's known we were involved (easy example: the Mori)
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To be clear: I say that we will never order her to use it. With this much power at her disposal, she needs to be the one in control of how it's used. If we come across a time when it is truly needed, I expect she will arrive at the same conclusion as us.

If you want, I can clarify the line to say 'never order you to use that move if you do not want to use it'?
 
faflec said:
I don't hate deadmans switches, I just hate deadmans switches that involve proliferation of this information.

Make a deadmans switch that doesn't involve EM nukes and I'm more likely to support it.
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The proliferation would be "Mari finds out" as she's the one with the fire element, and Mari would always find out because we need her opinion, so from a practical POV nothin_ chan_es, it's not shared with more people. We can simply say to Noburi "_ive the Scroll to Mari, don't read it", or tell a Do_ to tell the words to Mari(The Do_ wouldn't understand the context) and so on
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
No seal (we've research, at least) has realistic odds of such an outcome, or an outcome this bad.
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To be fair, this is approximately what the re--... what the scalin--... what our estimation of what SIN12 would be, no?

Veedrac said:
Action Plan: In which we don't fold over like wet paper
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There is some aspect of this that causes me at least a moderate amount of concern, where we tell the truth to Asuma and barefaced lie to everyone else (insofar that it was a seal failure)
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
My intention is that we don't set up the dead man's switch now, before we meet Shikamaru. If, as we meet him, it looks like we may need them, we can set them up afterwards. At the very least, the hope is that this makes the initial conversation more cooperative before we need to re-assess our situation.

I don't intend to leave us defenseless. I do hope to optimize the odds that Shikamaru cooperates. Does this seem reasonable?
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I expect our enemies to be capable, if they are _oin_ to kill us, they will assassinate us ASAP and with overwhelmin_ power, because we can set up anythin_ Underestimatin_ a clan made of super-intelli_ent ninjas + mindreaders could be a dan_erous mistake: We almost died thanks to the lack of precautions to the EM nuke, i would prefer to err on the side of caution at the moment
 
We should keep a puppy with us so that we can bounce to the 7th pass if it breaks super bad. Probably should have the rest of the team have immediate escape options
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Immediately:
  • Write a coded summary of steps, results. Pass to Noburi, to be stored securely and read if we die.
  • Sanity check with Akane and Shikamaru if possible.
    • Shika is only looped in minimally: we have a WMD and don't want it used to wipe out (say) Rock. (Implication: the Tama)
  • Submit peacefully to killbox etc. if requested.
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Um. I do not think this is a positive alteration, IE the instructions to replicate the nuke + the sanity-check description with Shikamaru.
 
faflec said:
Um. I do not think this is a positive alteration, IE the instructions to replicate the nuke + the sanity-check description with Shikamaru.
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I feel pretty firm on consultation with Shikamaru. Do you have words you like better?

I'm happy to remove the instruction component. That said, as it is not referenced in my plan as a deadman switch etc. I don't really see the harm.

Has the SV text editor started to eat line breaks for anyone else? It will sometimes just delete them if it's a double new line.
 
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