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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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CommunismWillWin said:
My opinion doesn't really matter since I only read this quest and don't participate but I don't want to read yet another update where Hazō has to assuage Kei's feelings while she alternates between self-loathing and blaming the players for her apparent inability to understand that she lives in a fascist wizard deathworld rather than an anarchist utopia
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...I need you to understand that what happened was in breach of the standards of hospitality and etiquette that would be expected of polite company. Kei trusted that Hazou had his people handled and he didn't. Instead, the person she wanted to introduce to her family has fled the home in distress and pain. We are the head of a feudal clan. This is our job. That we were not capable of it is on us.
Oneiros said:
Personally the best way to avoid pointless drama like this is to go off on adventures. If we aren't their we can't do anything about it
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Cool, vote for 'stop being clan head' then.
 
Shane_357 said:
...I need you to understand that what happened was in breach of the standards of hospitality and etiquette that would be expected of polite company. Kei trusted that Hazou had his people handled and he didn't. Instead, the person she wanted to introduce to her family
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I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways here. The Gouketsu cannot be "Hazou's people" in one sentence and "Kei's family" in the next. She knows Kagome is a disaster with strangers and chose to do nothing about it.
 
Shane_357 said:
Perhaps you are guessing blind, but 'being a good host for visitors/envoys/ambassadors' and 'managing internal drama of the entity we are in charge of' seemed pretty fucking obvious from the get-go for me and I have no idea how you didn't see it. We are the leader of a socio-political entity/community/family. Being able to social better than any random genin seems like a prerequisite. This is leadership 101 and even being a socially blunt autistic hermit I can see the outlines of the role we have explicitly taken on, as it is pretty standard? It's basically the same as any feudal fantasy setting really.
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First, can you take a step back for a minute and take a breath? You're getting very heated and confrontational about this in a way that doesn't seem appropriate to me.

Second, I think there's a nuance distinguishing what we each said that is important and I would like to highlight it. Responsibility and social expectations are very different things. Managing the finances to keep the clan afloat and not have debt collectors repossess the property is a responsibility. Being nice to people is expected, but not necessarily a responsibility in the same sense. See the Hagoromo.
 
CommunismWillWin said:
I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways here. The Gouketsu cannot be "Hazou's people" in one sentence and "Kei's family" in the next. She knows Kagome is a disaster with strangers and chose to do nothing about it.
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Kei is more than one entity in regards to us. She is not only our sister, but the wife of a clan head, and a figure of great political power. These things are all true at once in the context.
Ipsos Custodes said:
Being nice to people is expected, but not necessarily a responsibility in the same sense. See the Hagoromo.
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Buddy. This is a feudal deathworld and we are aristocracy. Hospitality is more of a responsibility than balancing the books - you can get away with being buried in debt, but mistreating guests is real shit.

EDIT: Like, even up to the early 1900s this was true. Being poor nobility is acceptable, but mistreating someone who has come into your house will trash your reputation.
 
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So, how soon can we do a detour to get better social stats?


Shane_357 said:
[X] Plan This Is Not Good Enough
-[X] Make family sit down and pay attention. Order them if you have to.
-[X] "This was an abject failure in every way. Kagome, that is never an acceptable conversation opener. In the future, do not ask people why they are the way they are, unless you feel ready to share your entire history about why you have issues of trust with every person who comes into this house. Yuno, I understand that you have certain issues with Noburi's interactions with other women, but disrespecting guests in our house is not acceptable, and refusing to let Noburi even read the message she intended for everyone to read was nothing but disrespect. If there are issues to be dealt with, you are expected to talk them out, not leave them to fester until they cause issues for the clan."
-[X] "And finally, I messed up. I did not foresee, prepare for, or do anything to get ready for this sort of event. I've been a bit focused on... existential external issues, but this is just another instance of not being available for the job. That has to change."
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I think this has some good ideas on how to put a bandage on things, it just needs to not be confrontational.

We absolutely shouldn't be saying this was an abject failure in every way, even Kagome realizes that.

We should start by taking blame for ourself, then go on to telling people what they can do to help avoid this in the future.

For Kagome, it should probably be worded along the lines of
  • Kagome, please don't ask people why they are the way they are, unless you're at a relationship level where you would consider talking about your own past with them. Just like you have your own things that you don't want to talk, so do other people.

Telling Yuno and Noburi to talk it out is good. I would go a step further and tell them that they are to go into a room right now and talk through their issues. If Hazō thinks there is danger of death or grievous bodily harm to Noburi, he should be there to mediate and prevent that.

Akane should get cuddles. Have a date with her and ideally Ino, do a cuddle pile. Talk if they want to, but the focus here is cuddles.
 
Sentient Tree said:
So, how soon can we do a detour to get better social stats?



I think this has some good ideas on how to put a bandage on things, it just needs to not be confrontational.

We absolutely shouldn't be saying this was an abject failure in every way, even Kagome realizes that.

We should start by taking blame for ourself, then go on to telling people what they can do to help avoid this in the future.

For Kagome, it should probably be worded along the lines of
  • Kagome, please don't ask people why they are the way they are, unless you're at a relationship level where you would consider talking about your own past with them. Just like you have your own things that you don't want to talk, so do other people.

Telling Yuno and Noburi to talk it out is good. I would go a step further and tell them that they are to go into a room right now and talk through their issues. If Hazō thinks there is danger of death or grievous bodily harm to Noburi, he should be there to mediate and prevent that.

Akane should get cuddles. Have a date with her and ideally Ino, do a cuddle pile. Talk if they want to, but the focus here is cuddles.
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@Shane_357, if you incorporate these changes, I'll vote for your plan.
 
RandomOTP said:
@Shane_357, if you incorporate these changes, I'll vote for your plan.
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Edited.
[ ] Plan This Is Not Good Enough
-[ ] Make family sit down and pay attention. Order them if you have to.
-[ ] "This was a failure and it's on me. I did not foresee, prepare for, or do anything to get ready for this sort of event. I've been a bit focused on... existential external issues, but this is just another instance of not being available for the job I took on. That has to change."
-[ ] "Kagome, that is never an acceptable conversation opener. In the future, do not ask people why they are the way they are, unless you are as close with them as you are with me. Other people have trap-fields of things they do not wish to revisit in their past, and those scars are as valid as your own.
-[ ] "Yuno, I understand that you have certain issues with Noburi's interactions with other women, but disrespecting guests in our house is not acceptable, and refusing to let Noburi even read the message she intended for everyone to read was nothing but disrespect. If there are issues to be dealt with, you are expected to talk them out, not leave them to fester until they cause issues for the clan. Please do so as soon as you are able. If you cannot without involving Satsuko, then I will mediate, but this needs to happen."
-[ ] "I've been trying to give you space Akane, but please, talk to me."
 
Shane_357 said:
The 'ice cold' and 'not letting Noburi read the note' bit. That would come off as rejection of her.
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I repeat my confusion. I had been under the impression that Yuno's response towards any and all who Noburi may become infatuated with was common knowledge.

Perhaps I am wrong about that. Hm.

[X] Spread rumors that Yuno is obsessively in love with Noburi and will a violence towards anyone Noburi may become infatuated with.
 
faflec said:
I repeat my confusion. I had been under the impression that Yuno's response towards any and all who Noburi may become infatuated with was common knowledge.

Perhaps I am wrong about that. Hm.

[X] Spread rumors that Yuno is obsessively in love with Noburi and will a violence towards anyone Noburi may become infatuated with.
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If it's to the point of behaving like this when an attractive girl is in the same building, we can't afford to indulge it anymore. We keep looking away to critical issues and every family interlude we get things are worse. We need to arrest the deterioration.
Sentient Tree said:
Add cuddles and you shall have my vote.
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I don't know how to word it, give me a suggestion and I'll add it.
 
Shane_357 said:
I don't know how to word it, give me a suggestion and I'll add it.
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"Akane, I've been trying to give you space, but I think it's been long enough that we should talk. If you're ready/comfortable with it, let's go cuddle and talk."

[X] Plan This Is Not Good Enough

I'll try to give more feedback later on in the voting cycle.
 
Shane_357 said:
I don't know how to word it, give me a suggestion and I'll add it.
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How about
  • Afterwards: cuddle date with Akane and Ino
    • You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but I'm here for you, and ready to listen when you need it.

RandomOTP said:
"Akane, I've been trying to give you space, but I think it's been long enough that we should talk. If you're ready/comfortable with it, let's go cuddle and talk."

[X] Plan This Is Not Good Enough

I'll try to give more feedback later on in the voting cycle.
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This is good too.


[X] Plan This Is Not Good Enough
 
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[ ] Plan This Is Not Good Enough
-[ ] Make family sit down and pay attention. Order them if you have to.
-[ ] "This was a failure and it's on me. I did not foresee, prepare for, or do anything to get ready for this sort of event. I've been a bit focused on... existential external issues, but this is just another instance of not being available for the job I took on. That has to change."
-[ ] "Kagome, that is never an acceptable conversation opener. In the future, do not ask people why they are the way they are, unless you are as close with them as you are with me. Other people have trap-fields of things they do not wish to revisit in their past, and those scars are as valid as your own.
-[ ] "Yuno, I understand that you have certain issues with Noburi's interactions with other women, but disrespecting guests in our house is not acceptable, and refusing to let Noburi even read the message she intended for everyone to read was nothing but disrespect. If there are issues to be dealt with, you are expected to talk them out, not leave them to fester until they cause issues for the clan. Please do so as soon as you are able. If you cannot without involving Satsuko, then I will mediate, but this needs to happen."
-[ ] "Akane, I've been trying to give you space, but I think it's been long enough that we should talk. If you're ready/comfortable with it, let's go cuddle and talk."

Afterwards: cuddle date with Akane and Ino
  • You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but I'm here for you, and ready to listen when you need it.
Okay there we go. Going to bed in a bit so any other suggestions will wait until morning.
 
It's all well and good to say we need to stop being clan head, I even somewhat agree that Hazo is a bad fit in some ways. The biggest current issue with it though is that there is not a good alternate candidate. I don't know that its reasonable to expect people to take a suggestion to abdicate being clan head without explaining who you think should be the clan head.

I also think it is worth keeping in mind, there are some things we are definitely good at for being clan head. We provide a unique mindset and voice to the Hokage, we had a tangible effect on the war effort, and our voice is heard with regards to the Great Seal (a potentially apocalyptic threat which has been noted to sound like crazy talk by others before) due to our standing. Perhaps more neutrally, I think our relationships with Ino and Shikamaru would likely look quite different if we were not on the same social standing, though I think this could be reversed as well for others who are below our current social standing.

Another point worth considering is that we know that the social stuff is a problem for us, in character. We usually delegate this sort of thing to Mari, and do so fairly successfully. This work around for the blind spot obviously does not work for Kei, but thankfully, she is family and knows us and the others well. She will get over it, or at worst, will be able to be apologized to. This is frankly a low stakes social failure, much as it feels bad in the moment. For higher stakes social encounters, we usually have Mari to help/delegate to, or at least coach us.

Not to say we shouldnt try to course correct this particular encounter, especially as it pertains to Yuno/Noburi's relationship IMO, but all just things to try and keep in mind in the face of some feel bads from this update.


EDIT: Separately, I'm torn on the approach to Akane in your plan. Explicitly saying 'I want to give you space/If you're comfortable, lets talk' and 'Its been long enough, we need to talk about this', they are conflicting. Plus, Im not sure she needs either of these things, especially right now. Maybe it would be better to just, take the time to be together (pull in Ino if we can), and make sure she knows she is loved?
 
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[X] Action Plan: Changing Minds
Word Count: 280
Planned Length: 10 days
  • Offscreen: Ask Kumokugo about Arachnid etiquette that Kagome should have.
  • Meet with Kagome and Mari.
    • Clear communication no jutsu.
    • Go over what happened during Fujisawa's visit.
      • We're not upset, merely aiming to do better.
    • Explain that we are worried about Kagome.
    • That twice in our first meeting with Kumokugo, a mispoken word nearly ended our life.
    • Share Kumokugo's information.
    • Ask for Mari's help.
    • Ask if she can think of an out-of-the-box way to leverage Kagome's strengths into social situations.
      • Mechanically: stunt to allow Kagome to roll Cryptography/Sealing in place of a social skill when attempting to hold his tongue/not give away information.
  • Mareo could possibly use the Yamanaka's help with his senility.
    • Sanity check with Cannai and Mari.
    • Tell Kumafuwafuwa and Mareo that our village may have people and jutsu that could help Mareo's mind.
      • We are unsure if it will help, or if we will be allowed to teach it or other techniques.
      • We don't want to overstep and wanted to speak with you before taking any actions.
      • Do you want us to begin looking?
    • If a fully-cognizant Mareo rejects, skip rest of this section.
    • Get Asuma's permission to continue.
    • Meet with Ino and Akane.
    • Debrief on Mareo and his condition.
    • Ask if there is anything the Yamanaka can do to help.
      • An experienced summoner + Bear Clan could help enormously against the Dragons.
    • Hazō is willing to pass along offers that he believes won't damage his relationship with Mareo.
  • Follow sealing SOP, research the easier seal:
    • Chakra adhesion activated ARS.
    • Two output seal ARS.
 
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[X] Enough is Enough!
Word Count: 264
  • Prep with Mari/Akane
  • Noburi
    • Invite your brother for a spar, far away from listening ears.
    • We can't go a week without some social calamity, eh?
    • Yuno's been threatening your womanizing still, and neither of you seem happy about it. Hazou feels obligated to say something.
      • When Akane dumped Hazou, he wasn't aware there was even an issue, because they failed to communicate.
      • Noburi would know: are Noburi and Yuno communicating? Establishing boundaries and expectations? Can't just wait for resentment to build, or we'll have another social explosion for Hazou to fumble horribly.
      • Hazou feels that Noburi and Yuno need someone to counsel them. Yuno hates Mari, but perhaps some other social specialist who can navigate things better than Hazou.
        • Maybe Ma and Pa are up to it?
      • Hazou supports them both. He just wants everyone to be happy.
  • Yuno
    • Ask Yuno to help Hazou cook family dinner. Follow Isan customs. Focus more on helping her share/vent her feelings than providing advice.
      • Hazou is concerned with Yuno constantly threatening Noburi. It isn't healthy for their relationship.
      • Sometimes Noburi's behavior makes her unhappy, which Hazou also doesn't want. Could she describe exactly how it makes her feel?
      • When Kei, Hazou, and Noburi were in Mist, they were outcasts in their own way. Years later, not all of that has healed fully. Sometimes still, Hazou is insecure about his ideas being valued, Kei is insecure about her self-worth, and Noburi remembers being constantly overlooked as a ninja and romantic partner.
        • Yuno didn't deserve the treatment Isan gave her either. She deserves to be loved.
 
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You know, on our end, we should probably talk to Kumokogo about Kagome's social skills and things he should avoid saying to ensure he doesn't inadvertently insult the entire Spider Clan.
 
faflec said:
You know, on our end, we should probably talk to Kumokogo about Kagome's social skills and things he should avoid saying to ensure he doesn't inadvertently insult the entire Spider Clan.
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HAZŌ: Here, Kagome-sensei, just don't use any words from this list and you'll be fine.

KAGOME: Hazō, this is a dictionary.

HAZŌ: Good luck!
 
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