Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
@MadScientist Don't forget barrier seals! I want my clothing-delimitted barrier armor, dammit!
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
There were two reactive armour types, one using shaped explosives, one using air-cannons. I forgot the explosive one, hang on, I'll add it in.
I'm not sure where to put the barrier seals in relation to each other. We could do with a bit more information on the process of inventing them that Kagome went through.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Precede them by a question mark?
I've just put them as seperate branches for now. If Kagome says that inventing the tripwire is integral to inventing the five-seal barrier, for example, then I'll update.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Does anyone know of a program suitable for making a visual tech tree, civilization style? No real functionality required beside the ability to color the squares and maybe put a symbol on them. I mean, I could just use MSPaint but that's... yeah. And I dunno how to use photoshop or any other visual editting program.
e: sp
e: sp
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Biological Sciences Dept. of the Hazou Sealing Research Institute
The obvious first application is medicine - we know medic nin exist as proof-of-concept for chakra healing people, and Tsunade'scancer-induction rebirth seal shows that seals can be made to interact pseudo-safely with living things at the cellular level.
Before getting to that point, however, we should consider the intermediary step of a diagnostic seal. Slap it on someone's forehead and it reports medical issues, saving the medic time and chakra. Could also be modified into a lie detector by monitoring vitals, which admittedly probably won't work on ninja.
This forms a functional stepping stone to any kind of healing seal, since healing will necessarily be a two part function (identify damage and then repair it). It may be advantageous to do as Tsunade did and tattoo the seal on to allow continuous updates of the model the seal will try to heal towards.
Alternatively, the healing seal could be applied once to the person in good health, scan them, and restore them later from that backup. This method may have more issues with lost memories. However, it may itself be a step towards producing longer-lasting artificial helpers in the form of seal-controlled golems with brain backups from the party to help guarantee loyalty.
The next step after repair is, of course, enhancement. While many people in the world today oppose enhancement for various reasons, there's no reason for ninja trying desperately to survive to have any such qualms. With that in mind, some areas we could target:
Besides immediate application to improving sight and hearing, as well as smell if we can swing chemoanalysis seals, the pathway can go two ways for teleoperation of constructs. This will work way better if we can figure out how to cast genjutsu that include proprioceptive information.
I seem to recall a common trope in Natuto fic (can't recall if it's been discussed here) that training yourself to accept benevolent genjutsu primes you to accept malevolent ones too, which could be a problem.
The obvious first application is medicine - we know medic nin exist as proof-of-concept for chakra healing people, and Tsunade's
Before getting to that point, however, we should consider the intermediary step of a diagnostic seal. Slap it on someone's forehead and it reports medical issues, saving the medic time and chakra. Could also be modified into a lie detector by monitoring vitals, which admittedly probably won't work on ninja.
This forms a functional stepping stone to any kind of healing seal, since healing will necessarily be a two part function (identify damage and then repair it). It may be advantageous to do as Tsunade did and tattoo the seal on to allow continuous updates of the model the seal will try to heal towards.
Alternatively, the healing seal could be applied once to the person in good health, scan them, and restore them later from that backup. This method may have more issues with lost memories. However, it may itself be a step towards producing longer-lasting artificial helpers in the form of seal-controlled golems with brain backups from the party to help guarantee loyalty.
The next step after repair is, of course, enhancement. While many people in the world today oppose enhancement for various reasons, there's no reason for ninja trying desperately to survive to have any such qualms. With that in mind, some areas we could target:
- Use backups from healing seals as more solid henges (potentially has issues of memory loss)
- Disguises based on more limited cosmetic changes might get around the memory issues
- Changing bodily qualities (strength of bones/muscle/skin, strength and flexibility of tendons) as a sort of Poor Man's Sage Mode
- Correct previous medical issues (eyesight?)
- Extra limbs? Wings? More slots to fit delicious Eyes of Bullshit into? The sky's the limit!
Besides immediate application to improving sight and hearing, as well as smell if we can swing chemoanalysis seals, the pathway can go two ways for teleoperation of constructs. This will work way better if we can figure out how to cast genjutsu that include proprioceptive information.
I seem to recall a common trope in Natuto fic (can't recall if it's been discussed here) that training yourself to accept benevolent genjutsu primes you to accept malevolent ones too, which could be a problem.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
It's just occurred to me that most of our progress in sealing over the rest of the quest is just going to be whittling away at Kagome's boundaries regarding what kinds of seals are safe or sane
("Kagome-sensei, I had a thought: what if we put a timer into a storage scroll?
"Hmm, well, sealing is always risky, but we can probably manage that"
*6 months later*
"...and then the seals on each of the tiny self-replicating golems' head feeds data directly back into the brain of the person who activated the master seal. Whadaya think?"
"lol sure sounds good")
("Kagome-sensei, I had a thought: what if we put a timer into a storage scroll?
"Hmm, well, sealing is always risky, but we can probably manage that"
*6 months later*
"...and then the seals on each of the tiny self-replicating golems' head feeds data directly back into the brain of the person who activated the master seal. Whadaya think?"
"lol sure sounds good")
[screaming internally]
I suppose diagnostics is the obvious first step, but it's quite a leap from diagnostics to restoring the fully healthy body from previous save-states. I was actually asking for intermediate steps.
I suppose bio-mods like changing the eye-colour, or melanin concentration would qualify as simple, since they don't rely on too many genes? Or something to detect wounds and instantly form a force-plug over them to prevent blood loss?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It's hard to decide between Insightful and Funny sometimes.
I think that in order to do any kind of sealing like that we'd need a true expert on medical ninjutsu. Either Tsunade, or Nobby at 20+ Med Ninjutsu.
e: Actually... I wonder if we could get a skill that delved into theory but not practice? Kind of like Deal-Making, but for Sealing, Medical Ninjutsu, and Technique Hacking -- this way we could have intelligent discussions with Nobby and Akane on the integration of sealing with their respective disciplines.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
You probably don't even need to mess with genes unless you want things to be permanent. Blood loss stopping seal is definitely a good idea.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
You could probably do that with a form of barrier seal (barrier seals are versatile; there's a reason Wall of Force is so OP in D&D
).Edited in an idea on my previous post.
These are all things that are currently done perfectly fine with medical jutsu right now, so one might ask what the point is on reinventing the wheel using seals instead of jutsu? Presumably the jutsu form is more efficient. Particularly as there's already a party member training as a med-nin.
Souls exist in the setting, so they're probably in integral component of intelligence. We would probably need to start studying natural souls before getting to the point of creating artificial souls. Fortunately there's an institute that is perfectly happy to help with that!
...I mean, not that I support that. I think it's a terrible idea.
Well, I was thinking of a seal that would let you, say, change your eye-colour or hair-colour at will.
You want blue eyes? Flick the switch in the Eye-Colour Seal that corresponds to blue. You changed your mind and want them green? Flick the green switch. You want to disguise yourself as an albino while you go undercover in a place that checks for henge? No problem! Flick some switches and you are now an albino!
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I had the same thought re: Orochimaru while writing this, tbh.
As far as why not do it with jutsu: for the same reason that we have seals for anything. They let us pre-pay chakra costs during times of safety, and make it so that not everyone has to learn a technique for the whole party to have access to it.
You mean Medical Knowledge?
So absolutely no one commented on this, and I thought it was worth poking at. Several points of real interest here:
1. Naruto was outed as the Fourth Hokage's son, but not as a jinchuuriki. I suppose rationally, once he's taking the chuunin exams there's no reason to keep it from him and everyone else any longer.
2. Naruto is known for his ability to heal from anything and not his ability to produce a near-infinite amount of shadow clones, arguably his signature move in canon continuity. Does he not have that ability in this world, or was he ordered to keep it on the down low during the exam?
3. There was no Invasion and the Third Hokage did not die. Neither of those things would be covered up so readily.
Did we ripple effect any of this, or is it simply that this is a Rational world?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I was under the impression Medical Knowledge covered medicines and such, not the theory beyond Medical Ninjutsu.
If it was free, sure, but consider opportunity cost. Is it a good idea to spend time duplicating with seals something a party member is already learning to do with jutsu when we could instead spend time creating seals that give new capabilities?
Oh I am slain!
Wynaut?
- Location
- Tatooine
Hmm. Now I'm wondering--How does medical ninjutsu work in this quest? How much intelligent manipulation of the healing ninjutsu is needed after the initial injury is stabilized? And how hand-wavey or in detail would the QMs prefer for medical ninjutsu?
We still only have one medic, and it's worrisome that grievous injuries can take weeks or months to heal with the resources we have available. Perhaps we could introduce a stopgap that will reduce the recovery time?
As soon as Hazou has a reliable chakra storage and release seal, there may be something simple that he could go for first: a general healing patch. Basically, a patch that slowly releases healing chakra that can be slapped onto a patient's injury after Noburi has already done all the initial fixing and setting of the injury. It could reduce injury recovery times, allowing healing to continue without Noburi hovering over someone 24/7. It could help with simple things like cramps after a workout too. Like a slow-release pill or a cold compress, but with heals.
Also, this seems not overly OP, so it may be more readily approved by the QMs.
And the possible reasoning for why this isn't already widespread: sealing is a restricted art; most medic-nin wouldn't know sealcraft; medic-nin are usually busy with more serious injuries; ninja are combat focused; and most people either have easy access to medic-nin or no access at all, so there's never been as much motivation to create this seal. (That last point is relevant because this patch requires a medic-nin to have already done the initial healing.)
Eventually, as Hazou develops his sealing further, it could be configurable to have variable storage amounts, injury specification, rate of release, timing, etc.
Of course, it's possible that Noburi will get to the level of insta-heal medical ninjutsu before Hazou ever gets close to developing a seal like this, rendering it redundant. It could be an enjoyable joint project, though.
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- Location
- Europe
They do exist in canon, but I wouldn't be so sure about the MfD verse. We should probably figure out a way to test it.
I would chalk it down to the rational world. The biggest impact our votes have had is probably the Fire-Water thing at the start of the quest, unless you count the small butterflies we've sent away while interacting with J.
Also note that all that info is filtered fifth hand rumors at best. Better not draw too big conclusions.
Probably because Akane was the one who got fooled to go after the scroll instead of Naruto. He would have no way to learn Shadow Clones (a forbidden jutsu) if he didn't get the scroll, except from Kakashi of course. The QMs have probably nerfed the shadow clones a lot, going by the general theme of the quest it probably has really bad side-effects and not something you want to teach to a inexperienced kid.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Hm. If we did develop such a seal, would anyone be opposed to sending the design to every nation? I mean, we would be giving up a fairly large advantage, but it would be a great way to generate goodwill.
e: Or to Mist specifically. If we can give them enough, they might be willing to let us go independent?
- Location
- Yes.
It stimulates cellular division to accelerate healing, I think.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Nah, give it to Leaf as part of the incentive package for letting us join. Although they already have Tsunade, and potentially whatever experiments Orochi did before leaving... Hmm. Either way, I wouldn't trust Mist to hold up their end of the bargain.
Not sure what you mean? I think really big stuff like invasions and Hokage deaths couldn't be hidden.
That's really a shame. Like I said, it's his signature move. It's a major ability that makes Naruto visibly Naruto. Even in the canon universe you have to suspect that it's not purely a matter of chakra reserves and that he has some special talent of shadow clones that is above and beyond that of everyone else. We don't see anyone spam clones like Naruto does, even people with high chakra reserves. So even in a Rational verse, it would have been easy to just declare it his super-special talent.
If we ever encounter him, and I hope we do at some point for the fun of it, it would have been really cool to experience the sheet pants-wetting terror of going up against someone who can make hundreds of shadow clones. I am actually disappointed.