I'm assuming that he won't be as ready to inflict psychic attacks on Snowflake or any other clone or Goketsu as Orochimaru would. Hopefully, he and Oro are okay with obtaining results by examining the clone's behaviour as proof of her claims.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Yes.
I would highly recommend making the edit as bolded above: when I first read this part, my understanding was that we would only explain the plan to talk to Orochimaru with Tsunade, and not also the plan for petitioning Tsunade.
I'm not certain we have immortality-related clan secrets unless I am missing something? Also this will absolutely make Orochimaru Interested in us again...and I don't think we want this.
...OK, if we're going to do this too, can you please update the first suggestion I made ("Explain the plan") to be its own topic? This way this section can be covered under the sanity-check.
I will vote for your plan if you replace "vivisection" with....let us say, "in-depth study". Also you should probably say that it is study of us, I know it seems obvious but it could lead to interesting consequences (e.g., Noburi gets dragged off).
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Hesitation Is Always Easy but Rarely Useful
It sounds more likely than not to not cause a big fuss (though it may still cause complications later down the road), but the odds that it derails something feels too much of a risk for what it brings to the table. Maybe it can be rephrased as "One of my personal goals is to find a way to defeat death", which is also true and also signals ideological similarity but doesn't say that we've actually made progress?
Necromancy is essentially immortality, definitely 'immortality-related'. I agree that it's probably more trouble than its worth, though. Even if Orochimaru respects clan secrets enough to not demand it from us, he might seek to find out what our angle is (he just recently admitted that lesser minds can still produce novel insights) and at worst he might consider it a threat to his immortality if someone else rediscovers the same secrets.
It sounds more likely than not to not cause a big fuss (though it may still cause complications later down the road), but the odds that it derails something feels too much of a risk for what it brings to the table. Maybe it can be rephrased as "One of my personal goals is to find a way to defeat death", which is also true and also signals ideological similarity but doesn't say that we've actually made progress?
- Location
- Yes.
Anyway, Hazou's already expressed interest in overcoming death at Orochimaru, and I feel that since Orochimaru is intelligent, he'd probably remember as such and that us now having clan secrets on the topic would be...uh...well.
I don't actually know if each shadow clone is independent and unique from each other, considering they all lack the bloodline. I'd expect them to be the same.
If they are unique. This can mitigate any annoyance at keiko not being there.
It also decrease the chance of him giving up on researching Kei.
I think increasing his interest in keiko will not influence much whether he is willing to trade with or harm keiko, only that it increases the chance of those options over him giving up on researching keiko.
If they are not unique, there is no point to bringing them.
In the public examination plan, Oro also has the option to request more shadow clones during the public examination.
I would currently rather decrease his interest in keiko during the initial snowflake meeting. We can always increase it later (although isan is a time constraint).
Am I correct in assuming you want the extra shadow clones because you think oro is willing to trade, and you would rather have oro goodies than for him to lose interest in kei?
Edit:
Guys I figured out how to beat naruto. Have his clones all listen to some really bad music giving them a mild consequence. When they eventually pop it stacks up into a severe
Edit2:
In light of clones able to take mental consequences. I'll prob replace the intimidation will pop me with. This topic overlaps with clan secrets of the Mori. Forcibly intimidating them out can jeopardize the mist alliance.
A concern if the meeting has become too risky. Snowflake meeting oro reduced his anger at delay. But gives the chance of her spilling clan secrets. whose primary detriment would be to make oro more interested. Compared to the limited info in a public examination, or consensual non clan secret trading
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- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Why are we so determined to be cut up/vivisected? Even basic examination got shot down, but we're still going back to it...
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Did a fork of @FaintlySorcerous plan where we don't immediately walk into Oro's lab. Plus talk to Ami since she is about to be out of the village so need to key her in ASAP
[X] Action plan: Not getting pierced by the god flaying knife
[X] Action plan: Not getting pierced by the god flaying knife
- Meeting with Ami and Shikamaru
- Get both of them up to speed on the situation and the political realities
- Is there a way that we can win Asuma support
- Orochimaru's interested in hacking the Frozen Skein.
- Requests:
- Delegate getting Naruto to support/protect Kei.
- Resources, coordination, and optimization of the below.
- Get both of them up to speed on the situation and the political realities
- Meeting with Tsunade:
- We'll petition Tsunade for protection and support.
- Tsunade (offscreen?):
- Buy 15 minutes of her time.
- Tone: straightforward, consultative.
- We failed to be uninteresting.
- Detail our interactions with Orochimaru. We conclude he'll kidnap/experiment on Hazo/Kei.
- We see this ending in his defection/Leaf's defeat or significant civil unrest.
- We can't fight him or avoid him forever.
- We can't produce compelling false explanations for seal memorization/cognitively-independent SCs before he returns.
- Are we misreading this? Can you see solutions?
- You can intercede and help keep us alive
- Request that she helps us not get ultra murdered
- Write Asuma. Suggest Summon Army as a defensive tactic. Summoners aren't all simultaneously field-deployed. Lean on the Great Seal as a stick (destroyed Leaf means it will fail) and goods, prestige as carrots.
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After Vel's statement about mental consequences on sc, I belive a safer avenue woukd be to go to Kabuto and offer him a demonstration of the cognitive independence of Snowflake and her sisters.
I'm actually assuming that Kei's shadow clones aren't that unique from each other and will do more to prove Snowflake's disclosure than only having Snowflake telling Orochimaru.
Firstly, I'd rather not test Orochimaru's patience or put Kei's mind at risk to the mercy of an annoyed S-ranker.
Second, I'd rather not have Orochimaru verbally destroy Kei's fragile confidence or Snowflake's when he sees the supposed cognitive independence for himself. I see a non-zero risk potential of a TLiF moment for Kei where Mari will have to glue up the scraps of Kei's psyche.
Alternatively, from the little that we've seen from Kabuto, he seems to have much better rapport and empathy than Oro. We trust him with Noburi. Since that's the case, we should have Nobby there as support for Kei for her if we want to take precautuons.
Orochimaru will get his precious results and Kei won't be directly in harms way.
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- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I'm voting for this because of the lack of vivisection. But... isn't this line kinda weird for Hazou to say?
Seems like it's something they'd know/come to on their own. And speculating as a non-thinker seems...like it might annoy them/ring alarm bells? IDK. Just trying to not put a foot in mouth with Hazou as he is.
[X] Action plan: Not getting pierced by the god flaying knife
Seems like it's something they'd know/come to on their own. And speculating as a non-thinker seems...like it might annoy them/ring alarm bells? IDK. Just trying to not put a foot in mouth with Hazou as he is.
[X] Action plan: Not getting pierced by the god flaying knife
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah mostly copied that from the leading plan will take it out
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Could you clarify this part? I'm not sure what you're thinking.
What is the plan?
Could you clarify what you mean here?
- Location
- USA
Not the first reposted plan this cycle, and probably not the last!
[X] Training Kei: SC Training AND standing up to essies!
Resolve 44 -> 47 (3 Yamanaka XP, 135 XP)
Save 22 XP.
This training plan was voted in pretty conclusively in this voting close post, which should have taken Kei's Resolve to 44. If that plan wasn't implemented, then I'll update this plan to be 42 -> 47, but the saved XP should hold -- we have enough to increase our clone blocks. Also, it's a good arc for Resolve training as a narrative convenience, right?
[X] Training Kei: SC Training AND standing up to essies!
Resolve 44 -> 47 (3 Yamanaka XP, 135 XP)
Save 22 XP.
This training plan was voted in pretty conclusively in this voting close post, which should have taken Kei's Resolve to 44. If that plan wasn't implemented, then I'll update this plan to be 42 -> 47, but the saved XP should hold -- we have enough to increase our clone blocks. Also, it's a good arc for Resolve training as a narrative convenience, right?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Training Kei: SC Training AND standing up to essies!
Mostly I want to get our thinkers to consider ways that we could get Asuma as the Hokage to support us. There is as much danger of Leaf collapsing from our death as there is with Oro defecting IMHO. So don't want to let Asuma not do his duty as Hokage to protect the people of Leaf.
that's a left over from FaintlySorcerous's plan went ahead and removed it
@FaintlySorcerous mind explaining this
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- Location
- on the way to the fire.
- Pronouns
- He
As someone who is not always up to date about the thread plans in progress. reading about Akane agreeing to go on a date with Snowflake, only to then immediately get a QM word on mental stress and consequences in regard to a shadow clone had certainly got a giggle from me.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm not willing to loop her in personally - right now, I leave it to Kei/Snowflake/Shikamaru to decide whether or not to bring her in. I have faith in them making the right call, there.
I don't want to deal with go-betweens. It's inefficient and there's room for miscommunication and there's no guarantee that Orochimaru won't just get tired of it and blast our brains. A conversation with Tsunade safeguarding us is fast, we get direct information, and we don't get our brains blasted (at least, right then).
I need to work on clarity. It's on my list.
Largely removed.
Can you clarify your proposed formatting?
I've made it clear that Hazo is volunteering, not the family.
I think asking Tsunade if vivisection is okay is smart. I think that proposing it to Oro is dumb. I've now updated my plan to say that we're happy to talk specifics of experimentation after the war is over. (I'm hoping he doesn't end it in a stroke.)
I've made changes I feel are equivalent.
Basic examination wasn't shot down - vivisection was, and it was shot down on the basis of 'we'd need to tell Orochimaru we lied'. If he agrees to cooperate, then I think it's pretty safe to tell him, 'now that we're being straight with each other, we lied about our abilities to protect clan secrets'.
Well, 'safe' relative to this situation, which, IMO, is currently on track to end in double vivisection of Hazo and Kei and the end of Leaf as a village.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is the up-to-date version of my plan. I think it's clearer.
[X] Training Kei: SC Training AND standing up to essies!
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- Location
- Italy
I was summoned and the ritual was completed, therefore i shall grant the power to influence a mind far away for our universe, with secret art of....voting!
[X] Action Plan: Hesitation Is Always Easy but Rarely Useful
[X] Action plan: Not getting pierced by the god flaying knife
[X] Training Kei: SC Training AND standing up to essies!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Shrooms I know you said you might not be around, but note that @faflec has you voting for Armageddon Initiative. I'm not sure that's the kind of thing you would normally do so I figured I'd mention it.
EDIT so that I'm not triple posting:
Do I have that right?
EDIT so that I'm not triple posting:
I think what this means is "Explain to Ami and Shikamaru that Asuma, in his role as Hokage, is not going to back us up against Orochimaru because <political explanation regarding Orochimaru's value during the war>. No matter what, this is going to cause problems in Leaf (collapsing due to our death / Oro defecting in the middle of WWIV). Can Ami+Shikamaru help figure out a way to convince Asuma to interfere with Orochimaru in order to protect Hazō/Kei?"
Do I have that right?
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Would you be so kind as to confirm that the current incarnation of my plan addresses these questions fairly clearly?
I am sorry that this is less fun to write than Hazo telling Orochimaru where to stuff his intimidation. (Seriously, guy, either kidnap us or don't.)
- Location
- Yes.
Something like...
I think this section needs a contingency if Oro decides to crush Hazou with his brain again. We can't possibly win a confrontation with social stats, so I'd suggest asking Tsunade to step in if Orochimaru decides to take things in that direction.
