Kei herself later admitted that she massively overreacted because she wanted to feel useful to the Nara.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Kei herself later admitted that she massively overreacted because she wanted to feel useful to the Nara.
I don't remember this. Do you remember the source?
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I would totally count it, maybe the situation is reasonable, but the underlying problem of Keiko unilaterally ending the conversation(And treating Hazou and Uplift as the enemy of the situation) counts. Especially when you consider the fact that Isan was going to be an ally to Leaf if everything went well, so hurting Yuno would have been a monumentally stupid move.
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I don't actually remember this so I can't comment on specifics. That said, Kei very frequently is way to hard on herself and is quick to dip into self-loathing thoughts. Just because she thinks she's in the wrong doesn't mean she actually is.
With the way that clan secrets are handled in universe, Kei was 100% in the right. Sure, to you and me it seems unreasonable to shut a conversation down like that but ask literally anyone in universe and they'll tell you that Kei was totally in line. We can't judge Kei for acting in accordance with in-universe culture just because we don't give clan secrets the same weight as the characters do.
Also, it's not like this was information needed for an imminent emergency. Pausing a conversation until later isn't a big deal, especially if it's for an important reason like this. Didn't Jiaryia tell us that saying "I need to talk to my clan head about this before I say anything else" is a perfectly valid line that even the Hokage had to accept? Kei basically did that (and everyone in the room accepted it; only people out of universe took issue with what happened).
edit: spelling
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I have completely forgotten the former and am confused by the latter. Which chapters were these?
I am a bad QM for violating my own principles and unduly interfering with player discussion. However, it feels odd to me to complain that Keiko focused on helping an ally of the Gōketsu at a time when said ally had suddenly lost its clan head, most of its senior ninja, and countless assets, whereas the Gōketsu had not.
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I'm not sure those are in the same vein as the other criticisms of Keiko, insofar as they were good-faith attempts to carry out Hazō's training plan and offer reassurance to Mari respectively.
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I am in complete agreement.
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My apologies. I had been growing annoyed with the increasingly unreasonable criticisms of Keiko's actions in the past days and decided to accelerate things to their logical conclusion.
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I am confused by your analogy. Leaving aside the issues involved in your implied proposal for the sealmasters, Keiko didn't have the authority to swear the Gōketsu to secrecy if Yuno shared a Nara clan secret with them.
Forgive me if I am being dense after staying up way too late last night working on the update, but what's the logical conclusion?
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Oh the problem isn't what she did, the problem is the reasoning behind her action. "An ally of the Goketsu is in difficulty, let's concentrate on them" is one thing "The Nara appeal to my inferiority complex, so i kinda ignore my own family struggles to bask in the feeling of being needed" is another. In personal relationships, intent is important.
EDIT: This doesn't mean Keiko is bad, or her actions are unreasonable, she is a child soldier that needs to deal with Goketsu,Uplift, Nara,Kei and so on. She is in a difficult situation and cannot deal with everything, it's not her fault, but the fact that she cannot deal with everything is...well, a fact.
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To criticize Keiko for anything that a) she was involved in that b) resulted in something bad happen, regardless of the context or her intent/knowledge at the time.
Hm. Maybe calling it the 'logical' conclusion was inaccurate.
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So...Keiko killed Minami?
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And thus the narrative resolves itself. Keiko, by giving Jiraiya Minami's location in her checkups, gave Jiraiya the opportunity to have Minami assassinated without risking his family. How wise.
My original point was never about Kei herself, though. She's a brilliantly written character with beliavable flaws and motivations, and I do feel bad for her. I'm just a bit frustrated with the amount of people, real or imaginary, that keep bending over to accomodate her.
Example, if it was my fiancee that was about to be sent to prison for almost spilling a secret that an entire village knows, after a jonin master infiltrator spent weeks there no less, then I wouldn't just sit there like this is fine.
Kei will keep doing Kei things, which is fine, and I'll keep pointing out that she's somehow never the one that gets punched in the face, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
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That's because you and your fiancee don't live in a ninja deathworld? I mean, Keiko literally stated she was entitled to execute her based on Leaf's clan secret laws, and I get the feeling that she was probably obligated to do so, with temporary confinement being an attempt to keep her safe (relatively).
Please keep in mind that we are not in a modern society. Kagome outright murdered Minami pre-retcon over her finding out one of our clan secrets, out of fear that it could be used against us; and post-retcon he only failed because we convinced the QMs that we would have noticed him acting suspiciously.
Wait, you...actually think she was in the wrong over the Noburi-punches-Hazou situation? Wtf??
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I highly suspect Asuma will/already has chewed her out for it when the mission report is turned in (unless we commit treason again and leave that part out). And Kei has definitely experienced consequences for her BS, see: Asuma getting pissed at her about the Concubine Law and weighing whether to pass it at all. It's just that Hazou is never the one "punching people in the face" for their actions. I don't understand the impression that Kei is somehow avoiding punishment while everyone else is getting fucked over for their mistakes constantly. Mari committed acts far more atrocious than Kei and Hazou forgave her pretty easily.
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I wouldn't say the Concubine Law counts, that was a political misstep, not a relationship/social one. But yes, Hazou prefer to go for the constructive route generally, like with Mari,Keiko and the Akatsuki.
I was obviously alluding to a general trend rather than any specific situation.
I'll repeat that I'm not debating right or wrong. She was surrounded by family, people who had her back for years in the wild, and Yuno who worshipped her. Who would have reported her?
She could have simply appealed to keep it a secret, but instead she brought legal proceedings into it, treating Yuno like shit in the process. Hazo at least had the balls to try and discuss it, but the rest watched like oh that's just poor old Kei having a mood, obviously we can't blame her. I'm not saying I would punch her in the face specifically . . . but the idea of a few friendly digs to the gut to keep her grounded doesn't sound too outlandish to me.
I'll file that under "no lasting tangible consequences" x)
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It has been a general trend from the start to be cotton puff soft with Kei when it comes to anything and everything because she's a pile of ground glass mentally.
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I don't currently have much time to type this out, so my apologies if this comes out half-formed or grammatically mangled.
Much if Kei's missteps have been so far behind her personal arc that blaming current-Kei for secluding herself on the 7th Path post-love reveal would be like blaming current-Hazou for the first killbox, or current-Mari for what she did under Yagura's thumb.
As for Kei prioritizing the Nara, in the immediate aftermath of the Collapse? The Goketsu Clan are a small, tightly-knit family whose near-telepathic levels of teamwork daunted Minami from the very start. Further, Noburi and Kei both place an immense amount of personal trust in Hazou's ability to do "The Thing." And Hazou's Thing has been observed by outside parties (Chunnin exams, combat section, iirc) and they were equally stunned.
I don't think it's unreasonable that Kei, amongst the mental/emotional shock of their version of 9/11, to focus on the Nara. The Nara weren't planning for this. The Nara lost their clan head, most of their senior ninja, and Shika was reeling from the Death of Both parents. So Kei stepped up to the plate and led the Nara Clan, trusting the Goketsu to be able to survive the tragedy in a way that the Nara might not.
And if we must assign blame for Kei drifting after marrying into the Nara, I would say that half of the blame is at Hazou's feet as well. Kei may have drifted apart (something she admits readily in the scene where Hazou and Kei reaffirm their familial bond and agree to never drift so far apart ever again, legal issues sh-megal issues).
After all, I remember a great deal of worrying amongst the hivemind (myself included) on what to reveal to Kei --either out of a worry not to pull her oaths in different directions, or a fear that she might betray us.
Kei isn't perfect. She's as flawed as any real human being is, and her realism is one of the fantastic things about her character. But she is growing as a person. Don't write her off just because her journey to healing/growth isn't 100% progress. Just like a real person, she's going to falter and misstep. She's going to backslide every now and again. Because she's human.
Be patient, be supportive. Be a friend. Because that's what we need when we're growing, when we're struggling.
Much if Kei's missteps have been so far behind her personal arc that blaming current-Kei for secluding herself on the 7th Path post-love reveal would be like blaming current-Hazou for the first killbox, or current-Mari for what she did under Yagura's thumb.
As for Kei prioritizing the Nara, in the immediate aftermath of the Collapse? The Goketsu Clan are a small, tightly-knit family whose near-telepathic levels of teamwork daunted Minami from the very start. Further, Noburi and Kei both place an immense amount of personal trust in Hazou's ability to do "The Thing." And Hazou's Thing has been observed by outside parties (Chunnin exams, combat section, iirc) and they were equally stunned.
I don't think it's unreasonable that Kei, amongst the mental/emotional shock of their version of 9/11, to focus on the Nara. The Nara weren't planning for this. The Nara lost their clan head, most of their senior ninja, and Shika was reeling from the Death of Both parents. So Kei stepped up to the plate and led the Nara Clan, trusting the Goketsu to be able to survive the tragedy in a way that the Nara might not.
And if we must assign blame for Kei drifting after marrying into the Nara, I would say that half of the blame is at Hazou's feet as well. Kei may have drifted apart (something she admits readily in the scene where Hazou and Kei reaffirm their familial bond and agree to never drift so far apart ever again, legal issues sh-megal issues).
After all, I remember a great deal of worrying amongst the hivemind (myself included) on what to reveal to Kei --either out of a worry not to pull her oaths in different directions, or a fear that she might betray us.
Kei isn't perfect. She's as flawed as any real human being is, and her realism is one of the fantastic things about her character. But she is growing as a person. Don't write her off just because her journey to healing/growth isn't 100% progress. Just like a real person, she's going to falter and misstep. She's going to backslide every now and again. Because she's human.
Be patient, be supportive. Be a friend. Because that's what we need when we're growing, when we're struggling.
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I would just like to take this statement out of context. That is all.