Shouldn't be necessary, we can just have a shadow clone or two filled up and ready to pop.


Wouldn't overloading, or the little water packets I suggested, work better? Because there is a bit of disorientation from absorbing a shadow clone for everyone that isn't Naruto, and I don't think we can afford that in combat.

Edit:

I always thought the Hokage's protective grandfather/warm bonfire vibe was for to something like our stunt, Forged in Fire.
 
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Wouldn't overloading, or the little water packets I suggested, work better? Because there is a bit of disorientation from absorbing a shadow clone for everyone that isn't Naruto, and I don't think we can afford that in combat.

Edit:

I always thought the Hokage's protective grandfather/warm bonfire vibe was for to something like our stunt, Forged in Fire.
I don't think the packets will work, unfortunately. Pretty sure you have to drink a whole liter of it to get the effect, even if you only want a little chakra.

Overloading would be good though.
 
I can't find the actual quote but I believe Mari said it was a jonin thing.
"I've been thinking about this a lot while we've been in Iron," Hazō said. "From the moment we entered Leaf, we had the Hokage with his grandfatherly aura. By the way, Inoue-sensei, is that some kind of Kage ability, or does he just have incredible body language?"

"It's a jōnin thing," Inoue-sensei said. "I'll tell you about it another time."
 
Why would this happen in all cases?

I note that Hana wasn't instantly flattened by Jiraiya for example (despite the obvious power differential), and the lack of mooks just being OHKO'd by this in BotG implies it as well (why would you waste time dealing with rabble when you can just have Orochimaru wiggle his eyebrows at them and have them all fall down en masse).

This clearly isn't a world where this is a tenable strategy in live combat for Jonin on average, or ninja in general, because we would have already known this to be the case, no? It wouldn't be this weird mysterious thing that we would have to consult older characters about, it would just be something they'd tell you about in addition to fireball throwing and how to snap people's necks quietly.
OTOH we know that jonin are geometrically more powerful than chunin and this is a plausible reason for why that is.
 
Update delayed until Halloween for completely innocent reasons.

Edit: It has come to my attention that I fail at time. Update delayed until Friday. For completely innocent un-Halloween-related reasons.
 
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Alright, well, given that information, have we given up on the idea of a duel yet, or are we determined to show all of Leaf what Hazo looks like when he's on the ground in a ball with soiled pants?
 
Well, I'm certainly not going to back out now.
Got it, so we have the poor judgement to take a second fight that we're hilariously outmatched in and that we know we're hilariously outmatched in, right after convincingly winning a first fight (which we've paid out both nostrils to win), rather than consolidating our gains and setting up to win the next fight we take, and we're going to show all of that to everyone who's in the know.

Well, at least we'll entertain our QMs and reinforce Hazo's village reputation as someone who's too plain stupid to be a treasonous mastermind.
 
Got it, so we have the poor judgement to take a second fight that we're hilariously outmatched in and that we know we're hilariously outmatched in, right after convincingly winning a first fight (which we've paid out both nostrils to win), rather than consolidating our gains and setting up to win the next fight we take, and we're going to show all of that to everyone who's in the know.

Well, at least we'll entertain our QMs and reinforce Hazo's village reputation as someone who's too plain stupid to be a treasonous mastermind.

Is it possible for you to make your points without the textual equivalent to sneering at a person?
 
Clearly we should challenge the entire Hagoromo clan to a duel with our entire clan. Nothing bad could possibly happen as a result of this.
 
I'd like to point out that you're assuming Jonin Auras are safe to experiment with, or at the they're able to, consciously, be used at non-full. We don't know if they're safe to experiment with and the only times we've seen jonin auras that weren't at max was when the jonin in question began to get upset (Ami, Itachi, and Asuma). One could make the argument that, as upset as they were, the non-full-blast-aura was because they weren't focused on restraining it (maybe it's an "always on" thing that they have to consciously keep suppressed, like sucking in your diaphragm).

We could ask Mari about it and then ask to spar with her as training practice. We could see how Hazou measures up to a social spec jonin while also learning if jonin-auras are combat applicable.
We asked and J-Dad said he'd be happy to test it by blasting us with his aura so he at least seemed happy with tests around it:
Can I get training in resisting other people's auras instead? If I can work my way up to someday resisting the aura of a Kage, that'll make me immune to normal jōnin auras, right?"

Jiraiya raised an eyebrow. "You think you could resist the aura of a Kage?"

"Eventually! Right now, I'm just suggesting seeing how far I can get, and then practising until I get better."

"You won't get anywhere, I can tell you that now. Apart from the fact that you're trying to face off against an incredible badass who makes ordinary jōnin quake in their boots, you just don't have the right kind of resolve. Mari told me about how she rescued you from Shikigami's camp. It was brave of you to run headfirst into the unknown, but when it comes down to it, you ran because there was no other choice. I think a lot of your missing-nin adventures were like that. Heck, I'm the one who forced you into half of them. You made choices based on what increased your odds of survival. Which was smart, sensible, and absolutely the right thing for a missing-nin to do, but the resolve you get from that? It's a survivor's resolve. You stare into the eyes of danger and go 'I've faced worse than you and survived.'

"You can't beat me with survivor's resolve. Somewhere in the back of your mind there'll be a voice going 'I'm stronger than Jiraiya and here is why', and another voice going 'I'm weaker than Jiraiya but I have to beat him anyway in order to survive.' Neither of those voices will give you what you need."

He didn't get Hazō at all. Or rather, he got how Hazō dealt with his enemies, but that didn't tell Jiraiya anything about where Hazō's resolve came from.

"That's not it at all!" Hazō exclaimed in frustration.

"Sorry," he said in a more subdued voice after registering Jiraiya's expression. "That came out more rudely than I expected. But I don't get my resolve from being a survivor. I get it from living in the name of the things I believe in. I have a vision of a better world, a world I intend to create, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to turn that vision into reality. I know that it isn't going to be an easy path. I know that the world is a ravenous, unfeeling abyss, and that the darkness within it is going to devour all of us unless somebody stops it. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. But precisely because the world needs saving, I am going to become strong enough to save it. It doesn't matter what I face—unsolvable problems, unbeatable enemies, even human nature itself—I will overcome them because I have to. That's my resolve, and that's what I want to use to learn to stand up to a jōnin aura, step by step."

"Wrong answer."

It was like being hit with an uppercut out of nowhere.

"What?!"

"Better, I'll grant you," Jiraiya said with an approving nod. "That could get you a long way under the right circumstances, at least if you can walk the walk. But this time, one little voice is going 'I'm stronger than Jiraiya because I want to be' and another is going 'I'm weaker than Jiraiya but I have to beat him anyway for the greater good'. That's not good enough either."

Not enough? How could it be not enough? Setting aside the fact that Jiraiya was unbeatable as things stood, that was Hazō's own self, the thing that would eventually become his core as a jōnin. It would be one thing if Jiraiya had said it wasn't strong enough, or even if he'd said that Hazō wasn't putting enough of himself into those words. Hazō knew that right now that resolve was more a statement of intent than anything else. But to imply that it was wrong on a fundamental level?

"It's not that belief can't work to give you strong enough resolve. But it takes purity of focus. It takes a kind of fanaticism that you don't have. Look at Zabuza. Zabuza dedicated every waking moment of his life to being a hunter-nin, whether he had to or not. On top of making him the ultimate master of his craft, it also gave him an identity that couldn't break under pressure. He had no voices in the back of his head, and I doubt I could have made him submit if I wanted to.

"There are others out there. I once knew a man who'd dedicated himself to the protection of Leaf to the point where nothing else existed for him. If you could be used to protect Leaf, he would use you. If you were a threat to Leaf, he would remove you. That was the sum total of his world. He wasn't even a Kage, but his aura could floor jōnin too.

"Assuming you aren't a paragon like those two, the resolve you need to beat a jōnin is the same resolve you need to become a jōnin. You have just one voice, and what it says is 'I'm stronger than Jiraiya.' No explanations. No justifications. No objectives. You're not even trying to win. You're not even focusing your resolve in response to my aura. You just are, and there happens to be a jōnin aura in your general vicinity."

"I just… am?"

"That's right. 'I'm stronger than Jiraiya.' Go a little deeper, a little further towards the core, and all you see is 'I'm stronger.' Get as close to the core as words will get you, and all you see is 'I am.' Nobody gets to argue with that.

"I'm not saying I won't give you a fair shot, once we're back in Leaf and I can do it without freaking out everybody in a one-mile area. Just don't expect miracles."

-o-​



Alright, well, given that information, have we given up on the idea of a duel yet, or are we determined to show all of Leaf what Hazo looks like when he's on the ground in a ball with soiled pants?

Yeah seriously, I don't know what you're so worked up about. We already showed all of the powers that be in the EN what we look like on the ground in a ball with soiled pants when we shit-talked Zabuza and got a taste of his aura, and then we did an exclusive, invite-only, special when Oro looked at us too severely when he was reclaiming his house during games night. If this does end with us in a puddle of our own fluids, I'm guessing most people will just be wondering why they've had to wait so long between episodes this time.
 
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We asked and J-Dad said he'd be happy to test it by blasting us with his aura so he at least seemed happy with tests around it:






Yeah seriously, I don't know what you're so worked up about. We already showed all of the powers that be in the EN what we look like on the ground in a ball with soiled pants when we shit-talked Zabuza and got a taste of his aura, and then we did an exclusive, invite-only, special when Oro looked at us too severely when he was reclaiming his house during games night. If this does end with us in a puddle of our own fluids, I'm guessing most people will just be wondering why they've had to wait so long between episodes this time.

Honestly after reading through this, a little more confidence returned to me. Hazou's source of resolve isn't the right kind to overcome Jiraiya, but it honestly sounds like a direct counter to everything the Hagoromo stand for, especially in Hazou's perspective. I'm not a game mechanics guy so I don't know how that might actually work out differently in practice, but based solely on in-universe logic this might just be a jonin Hazou is at least capable of staring down, if not overcoming.
 
I'm not the one sneering, I'm making the point that everyone sneering at Hazo after we lose is going to be making.
Ah. You see, it was pretty unclear in the context:
Got it, so we have the poor judgement to take a second fight that we're hilariously outmatched in and that we know we're hilariously outmatched in, right after convincingly winning a first fight (which we've paid out both nostrils to win), rather than consolidating our gains and setting up to win the next fight we take, and we're going to show all of that to everyone who's in the know.

Well, at least we'll entertain our QMs and reinforce Hazo's village reputation as someone who's too plain stupid to be a treasonous mastermind.

In the future, maybe don't use diction that's isomorphic to talking down to someone? Since it can make you come across as if you are doing so, and I'm sure that nobody would want to be on either end of that mistake.
 
Ah. You see, it was pretty unclear in the context:


In the future, maybe don't use diction that's isomorphic to talking down to someone? Since it can make you come across as if you are doing so, and I'm sure that nobody would want to be on either end of that mistake.
Fair enough, I can see how that reads unclearly when I view it with your bolded emphasis rather than from my viewpoint which I wrote from. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
I feel as if this whole killing intent thing can be possibly circumvented in this instance.

A spar is primarily a test of combat abilities, not a duel to the death, and one could reasonably classify killing intent as prohibited (or at least inappropriate) to use in this context in the same way that one could prohibit the usage of full-lethal armaments intended to kill the other person. It's outside the intended scope of the engagement.

tl;dr

no killing intent fox only final destination
 
I feel as if this whole killing intent thing can be possibly circumvented in this instance.

A spar is primarily a test of combat abilities, not a duel to the death, and one could reasonably classify killing intent as prohibited (or at least inappropriate) to use in this context in the same way that one could prohibit the usage of full-lethal armaments intended to kill the other person. It's outside the intended scope of the engagement.

tl;dr

no killing intent fox only final destination
KI = jonin aura? I recall J-man describing Keiko's use of KI as similar, but I don't know if that means same mechanic lesser result or different mechanic similar result.
 
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