Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Seems dangerous to designate the Jinchuuriki as an heir without training a backup. Someone might try to kidnap them or something crazy like that.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Seems dangerous to designate the Jinchuuriki as an heir without training a backup. Someone might try to kidnap them or something crazy like that.
- Location
- Yes.
Wasn't he already being trained to be Hokage or something?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Sure? I don't see what thats got to do with it.
- Location
- Yes.
If Naruto's going to be Hokage then the concerns of him being kidnapped/killed for being a jinchuriki are irrelevant in the face of his Hokage status.
That or he is to be Jonin commander.
Otherwise, somebody has to take care of the clan.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Sure but my point is: You train a backup. So that if something happens you're not royally fucked over.
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
- Location
- ◕ ‿‿ ◕
By trading seals for large amounts of gold to increase our wealth?
I'm confused as to where this came from. Didn't we already know things could be moved between realms?
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Isn't Naruto the backup himself?
Training one of us over Naruto would be Jiraiya admitting to himself and his political enemies that he doesn't think recovering Naruto has a high chance.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't follow this logic. Give both of them some training. Por que no los dos?
Keiko physically travels when she gets reverse summoned, but when we summon pangolins they inhabit a chakra construct while they're bodies are chilling out in Pangolin Land, IIRC. I was a bit surprised when Pandamonium showed up with large physical objects. Guess it doesn't work that way.
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
- Location
- ◕ ‿‿ ◕
Okay, yeah, that's a notable difference.
- Location
- London
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Can Keiko travel to the Seventh by herself, or does she need to be reverse summoned by somepang else?
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Shrug, I imagine that is not traditionally done to avoid a succession crisis or people would be training more people than just their heirs with The Good Stuff.
How much that is applicable to us is up in the air; I would say not at all but I don't know how Jiraiya sees it or if he feels he has to act in a given way because people expect him to.
Kalkin
(╯ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ╯︵ ┻─┻
- Location
- AK
This wouldn't be insensitive? I'd assumed Naruto was the heir.
Everyone assumed Hazō's the heir. Hazō himself gave basically no thought to this idea.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Lets try a different argument for why I think this might be a good idea. One aspect of this (and of the Ami thing and other things we could/should be doing) is:
FMPOV pretty much everyone else has their clan knowledge safely tucked away in the heads of a handful of old geezers that sit around and drink tea/sake all day and complain about the price of china in Tea.
We're sorely lacking that advantage. Unfortunately, the fount of our clans bullshit OP knowledge is also the Hokage, who is very busy. Too busy to help us with stuff at the moment or teach us much.
Solution: Make J's life easier in exchange for shinies and a few hours of his time each week. I don't even care if its not feasible for Jiraiya to personally help us out for quite a while, we can still get things like "Permission slip to attend the next two week long ANBU infosec training course." or "Funds from the war chest to start your zany business ideas." or "Command of a few dozen Earth genin to send on these wall building trips, and tacit approval thereof (pending funding)." outta that.
It sounds pretty reasonable to me. The guy is going to be easier to work with and more likely to give us a hand if we actively make his life less of a living hell.
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- Location
- Potato land
So the way I think about this is that Ami will be able to tell Hazou is lying whenever he does so. Part of the reason for the somewhat brutally honest approach in @Noumero's plan is that trying to hide irrelevant stuff will only give Ami leverage, and the honesty could even surprise her a bit.
However, we do need to lie about some things, by omission at minimum, and that's fine as long as we understand the consequences. When Hazou tells Ami "I wanted to meet the Mori prodigy", that's technically true, but obviously not the full story, and that's fine for Ami to know.
Does that sound ok? I don't think being completely truthful and telling her we'd like to reconcile her and Keiko will gain us anything.
- Location
- Potato land
Some of my remaining comments on the winning plan.
How about: Friendly, light and conversational, slightly joking. More serious for appropriate topics, like family.
One way to make our explicit refusals to broach certain topics less rude and awkward is to express them as jokes. The point here is less to affect Ami, because we won't, and more to make Hazou feel better about what he's saying.
So, how about that ^_^ stamp seal? @eaglejarl gave it the green light.
Since we have some wordcount left, I'd really like to explicitly reference the Chuunin Exam as a possible blueprint for international cooperation and conflict resolution without war. It's very topical and gives Hazou's beliefs more depth.
On that note, anyone have any other ideas as to what kind of realization we can put in here? The better Hazou understands the situation, the better his decisions will be. I'm wondering if there's merit to explicitly adding something like "Ami doesn't know why you want to meet, or whose interests you may be serving. Keep that in mind at the start of the meeting especially."
How about: Friendly, light and conversational, slightly joking. More serious for appropriate topics, like family.
One way to make our explicit refusals to broach certain topics less rude and awkward is to express them as jokes. The point here is less to affect Ami, because we won't, and more to make Hazou feel better about what he's saying.
So, how about that ^_^ stamp seal? @eaglejarl gave it the green light.
Since we have some wordcount left, I'd really like to explicitly reference the Chuunin Exam as a possible blueprint for international cooperation and conflict resolution without war. It's very topical and gives Hazou's beliefs more depth.
On that note, anyone have any other ideas as to what kind of realization we can put in here? The better Hazou understands the situation, the better his decisions will be. I'm wondering if there's merit to explicitly adding something like "Ami doesn't know why you want to meet, or whose interests you may be serving. Keep that in mind at the start of the meeting especially."
- Location
- Yes.
...Jiraiya's?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
She can assign >50% probability on that, IMO.
OTOH does it look like that speech served Jiraiya's interests?
- Location
- Potato land
The funny thing is, we're kind of doing that, but our true purpose lies elsewhere. And I do expect Ami to consider that possibility, among others.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I expect most interesting individuals will have their own goals and interests besides "I'm Red Team." or "I'm a Mist ninja." and I would expect any intelligent NPCs to think similarly.
Hazou is non-standard, thus interesting, and as a corollary people (with brains) won't automatically model him as being Jiraiya's patsy on all things.
In other words: they'll be aware that Hazou actually does things with his agency, and act accordingly when relevant.
tl;dr : Shikaku.jpg
Hazou is non-standard, thus interesting, and as a corollary people (with brains) won't automatically model him as being Jiraiya's patsy on all things.
In other words: they'll be aware that Hazou actually does things with his agency, and act accordingly when relevant.
tl;dr : Shikaku.jpg
- Location
- Potato land
A couple weeks ago I tried to think through the major possibilities from Ami's point of view, and while it's trivial to conclude that Hazou got Jiraiya's permission and therefore this meeting serves Jiraiya's interests in some way, there actually exist several plausible options aside from that.
My current read is that the speech increases the probability of Hazou playing his own game, and us wanting to talk about Uplift a lot will increase that even further.
My current read is that the speech increases the probability of Hazou playing his own game, and us wanting to talk about Uplift a lot will increase that even further.