- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes? They fit his type of thinking, and his own influence and example would only make this similarity bigger in later generations.
Also, he does think of himself as a tool as well.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Such is the price of leadership.
Although, keep in mind that she was mostly salty about something that got introduced as a result of an edit kerfluffle/typo by a very sleep deprived individual, and that this was not mostly a result of the Hivemind/Hazou intentionally using people like tools.
Also it was mentioned in the Pressure Cooker that we ask Akane to do this and it was okay if she refused. Specifically:
Akane's first word about this? "No."
I remind you: it was Keiko talking to her.
Keiko didn't do that. Keiko didn't accept no for an answer. Keiko sorta kinda peer pressured her into doing it anyway. It was Keiko who told Akane to do the plan and used Hazou's feelings as subtle emotional blackmail. Not Hazou.
Hazou's only sin here was his Foot In Mouth style explanation of things to Super Team Leaf.
E: And I suppose realizing that Akane considered herself on a different team now. Although if that was truly a real problem, it stings a bit. You don't risk life and limb for each other for a year and then call it quits on "The Team" when the Higher Ups assign you some new assholes to hang out with.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Roomba specifically and intentionally included that we told STL about her technique
- Location
- UK
Uplift seemed much more about concrete QOL differences than ideology to me. Less "everybody can build walls" and more "ninja are unusually good at building walls, let's figure out how to incentivise them to do it."
Evenstar
Triple Jump Unlocked
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So instead you will teach the future leaders of Konoha to be ninja before they are people. You will teach them that being a strong tool in the Light's service is more important than the Light itself. You will teach them that they don't matter, only their service does.
What will they do then, I wonder?
And, if you are to quote scripture at me, I'm fond of this: "WIN. Don't lose reasonably. Win."
- Location
- Potato land
The fact that ninja villages train and utilize child soldiers as a matter of course doesn't mean that we should help optimize this process. As opposed to doing things that actually make the world at least a bit better.
Strictly speaking, what I did was include a specific point that we were breaking opsec on Elemental Mastery, which was told to Noburi and Keiko in case that wasn't clear. My expectation was that the logistics of the plan would let anyone from our protected group figure out that it was Akane's technique. But the plan didn't include actually telling anyone.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't see anything about telling STL about this in the Pressure Cooker (Sic)
IIRC this was the problematic chain of plan statements:
Combined with some last minute edit that included something to the effect of bargaining with Hinata to tell them "as much as we told Team Asuma" that was the problem.
I could totally be remembering wrong though.
This here, meritocracy, led to the current form of government and our present condition in MfD.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't see how any of that is what is being done here at all. I think you're ascribing way more to what I wrote than what I did (which was in essence "How to figure out what pile of individuals we can take under our wing to maximize the cost-benefit analysis." ) and I'm not really sure what particular portion of what I said crossed the line for you, but I will point out that it says "Sith Master-ing 101" at the very top of my first post about this.
Pretending that this is unilaterally bad and won't "make the world at least a bit better" is stripping some nuance off of it, isn't it?
On the flipside: Do you think they're more or less likely to die in a random ditch if we're assisting their education? Do you think they're more or less likely to grow up to be people that go out and make a difference if Hazou is the one they look up to?
(I agree that we shouldn't have to do any of this at all, but this is the world with child supersoldiers who are going to be sent to die regardless of whether we give any input on it or not. This is not likely to change in the near future, and there is nothing we can do to prevent this from happening. Conclusion: try to twist this to serve our own ends, as best as we can.)
- Location
- Potato land
I don't think it's unilaterally bad, but it definitely is the status quo, and is unlikely to lead to any kind of positive change. Whether it does depends largely on how zero-sum the ninja game is - if some other kid dies in a ditch instead of your selected student, that's not really an improvement.
I'd also like to think that we can inspire people (not just impressionable children!) without needing to isolate and condition them first.
My counterproposal to twisting the child soldier problem in our favour, is to not do that, and instead do things which will measurably help humanity without making anyone a better killer in the process. We seem to have more ideas for that than we know what to do with, the majority of which appear to have a much better ROI than Hazou building his own martial order.
Just because you can optimize something, doesn't mean you should.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Having Hazou's own martial order has significant benefits in the personal power that Hazou can use in enforcing his other projects.
Less likely to die in a random ditch; more likely to die in a highly predictable killbox.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Pff. "Psychological conditioning", "ethical ideological indoctrination", "everybody matters" messages — all this nonsense is so unreliable.
I, for one, think that we should just bugfix lupchanzen and start putting them in children's heads en masse. This plan reduces global sociopolitical issues to a singular engineering problem.
I, for one, think that we should just bugfix lupchanzen and start putting them in children's heads en masse. This plan reduces global sociopolitical issues to a singular engineering problem.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't think we gain anything by ignoring the problem outright though?
Also: por que no los dos? This isn't even super effort intensive compared to "Spend all week (literally) making explosives to sell to fund Till-n -fills." or "Spend a couple months researching a Campfire Seal, mass produce these and storage seals over the course of a month, go boil a swimming pool worth of saltwater and use the resulting salt to fund all of our ideas."
We just need to spend some time teaching kids how to dodge better, punch decently, and to think outside the box. The latter of which is just as useful in day to day life as it is in combat.
So this is actually a really good point. It's why we won't be able to do anything truly heinous and anything more subversive than "Get the children under your wing and teach them to be compassionate about their fellow humans under the guise of an asskicking apprenticeship. Mwahahaha!"
Hmmm.
Do you think if we ask Kagome to help us make a seal for this, he would scream loud enough to timetravel us back to the start of the quest?
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- Location
- United States
Thank you beautiful folks for all that you do around here.
@eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail , @faflec hey hugs for everyone..
Now before we get started..
Would anyone like to step out?
--To the beat of MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT, by Ladies Love Cool J..--
HAZO:
"Shadowboxin' like you Nara Shikako, I'll put you on the D-E-O"
"Department of Energy & Outros, you just don't know!"
"What I got inside my bag of wonders,
leave Mist like a tundra.."
EXPLOSIONS....
"CALL THE JOUNIN"
"YOU ABSOLUTE STINKERS"
"KUNAI'S EXPENSIVE LIKE RICE
Flying through the air like civvies with lice.."
...
KEIKO:
...
HAZO:
"...No reply?"
PANKRASHAnup from the ground:
KEIKO SAID CLAW YOU DOWN
IM GONNA CLAW YOU DOWN
KEIKO SAID CLAW YOU DOWN
PANKOKRATOR TAKES THE CROWN
Civilian: "k'sooooo..."
...
@eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail , @faflec hey hugs for everyone..
Now before we get started..
Would anyone like to step out?
--To the beat of MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT, by Ladies Love Cool J..--
HAZO:
"Shadowboxin' like you Nara Shikako, I'll put you on the D-E-O"
"Department of Energy & Outros, you just don't know!"
"What I got inside my bag of wonders,
leave Mist like a tundra.."
EXPLOSIONS....
"CALL THE JOUNIN"
"YOU ABSOLUTE STINKERS"
"KUNAI'S EXPENSIVE LIKE RICE
Flying through the air like civvies with lice.."
...
KEIKO:
...
HAZO:
"...No reply?"
PANKRASHAnup from the ground:
KEIKO SAID CLAW YOU DOWN
IM GONNA CLAW YOU DOWN
KEIKO SAID CLAW YOU DOWN
PANKOKRATOR TAKES THE CROWN
Civilian: "k'sooooo..."
...
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
It's lit, fam. ^_^
Evenstar
Triple Jump Unlocked
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... yes, and...?
I guess I'm just going to have to put my money where my mouth is and write up a damn alternate plan, aren't I?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Some things to remember when writing a long-term plan:
- How does your plan interact with other people?
- With the culture?
- With the clans?
- With the geopolitical situation?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Feel free! I'm still a little unclear as to what you don't like about that one specifically (is it that we're cherry picking academy students in a specific way, something about how we're going about doing that, or what? Is it the implicit metrics specifically that you disagree with? I can see how "Grueling physical endurance test to see who gives up first." might not be the be all end all of the choice, but I did say we should put a lot of clever little tests in there to check for other qualities) but if you want to try to propose some sort of alternative for that I'm all ears.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I think testing for determination/resolve (not the stat 
) and creativity is a decent measure of a good student. We want students like Akane; geniuses will do well regardless of who teaches them, but if we can get students who wouldn't do well normally but WOULD do well with us, that'd be ideal.
) and creativity is a decent measure of a good student. We want students like Akane; geniuses will do well regardless of who teaches them, but if we can get students who wouldn't do well normally but WOULD do well with us, that'd be ideal.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
See, this is what I had in mind.I think testing for determination/resolve (not the stat
I worry that somehow I've presented it in such a way that the phrase "Navy Seal Hell Week." has fused instantly with "Ten year old academy students." and that that along with some of the memey nature of that whole outline is giving the impression that I'm trying to create Hazou's 501st Stormtrooper Legion by turning a bunch of ten year olds into soulless killing machines.
Nah!
(Seriously, no one here would ever let me get away with that.)
On the other hand, if Johnny McAcademyStudent throws in the towel after the twentieth lap around the training field and curses us out belligerently...maybe they aren't the best fit? Or maybe they are, and they just have a massive temper and hate running. This is why multiple tests are good.
(On the other hand: it literally doesn't matter if Johnny McAcademyStudent falls behind the crowd by a ludicrous pace if he's still trucking onwards step by step. The only way to fail a test of resolve is to give up. Even if they do give up, the context of how and why matters.)
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
unsweetened black tea and milk makes for an interesting combination, so I feel like I can write something up
Goketsu Center for Shinobi Excellence
1) State from the beginning that the GCSE focuses on clanless ninja, and underprivileged ones especially.
- Initially, the GCSE will be seen as somewhat of a joke, especially with this restriction; however, it's the only thing that's going to stop clan-based ninja from muscling in should the GCSE succeed.
2) Host sessions after Academy hours.
- Run 4-hour sessions on the weekends, 2-hour sections during the weekends, and if there is anyone particularly promising we'll tutor them above and beyond what we're covering in the main sessions.
- The 4-hour weekend classes are primarily for evaluation and competition: sparring, receiving feedback, potentially teamfights with random teammates, homework, etc.
- e.g we might have a close-range day where everybody spars six or so times and we give feedback each time, assign homework of channeling chakra into a storage seal, and then the next day we prepare a teamfight where teams are given a pile of stuff, a storage seal, and an objective.
- The 2-hour weekday classes are for instructing theory and assisting with assignments: here we demonstrate jutsu, explain offensive and defensive theory, and, well, assist with homework.
- Should the class grow in size, split and stratify by aptitude, and allow movement between classes.
- The 4-hour weekend classes are primarily for evaluation and competition: sparring, receiving feedback, potentially teamfights with random teammates, homework, etc.
- Every so often, take the classes out on a Till'n'Fill, possibly a RAISE AN ENTIRE VILLAGE IN A SINGLE DAY if we feel advanced enough. Note that we'll probably need to take chaperones on a trip like this.
- If we choose to get even more involved, we can turn the whole day into an exercise: blue team builds a village, red team attacks, and vice versa.
- Use the opportunity to slide in uplift; this is how all of you can make a difference, that sort of thing. Validate them.
- Should students have issues at home, act quickly and efficaciously to resolve them; it won't do to have their growth hampered by factors outside of their control.
The ideal scenario is that by creating a GCSE alumni network, we create a group of highly talented shinobi that feel indebted to us, all without ever explicitly asking for their help or taking them on as an apprentice, although we can still do that.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think this is essentially the next step we want to do with Kagome's tutoring stuff right? On the way to educational reforms in Leaf in general.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Yes and no. Yes in that it's on the way to educational reforms in general, but no in the sense that we're not really tutoring so much as running an extracurricular class that expects its students to be wildly ahead of the Academy curriculum - for example, the proposal doesn't come out and say that we expect our students to learn MEW, but blue team exercises get hella easier if you have it.