So, it seems our good opposites have finally revealed themselves. On reflection, I can't think of a better candidate than you (though I'm not sure whose opposite you are), but who are the other two?
@Inferno Vulpix and @MMKII

Also I'm not sure in what world someone suggesting Hazou train under Zabuza is a Good QM. (*looks at the recent chapters*) Never mind.

...Now you've got me thinking about a two-sets-of-QMs quest where the sets of QMs are in (narrative) competition with each other and may only interact through votes passed by their players... Hm...

---

Unrelatedly, we need to figure out either something sufficiently-noxious, inflammable, and opaque to serve when macerated to serve the purpose mentioned above. Either that or just find a smoke bomb seal. Or smoke bombs. If they exist.

Who am I kidding these are ninjas of course smoke bombs exist.
I'm pretty okay trying to turn the tables like this, so long as we have decent contingencies for when her mood turns sour/angry as a result. I don't trust Hazou to navigate this by default and don't have anything atm.
Yeah, we need to talk through it among the hivemind and figure out what our contingencies will be. I don't trust myself to come up with them at 2 AM, but... Maybe I should run Mari.IO on this.

(What do you mean Mari.IO is a different thing? :p)

Thoughts on bringing Akane in on it while we're gone?
 
Thoughts on bringing Akane in on it while we're gone?

Tentatively not opposed?

Updates:

[X] Oh shit we actually need a plan
  • Give Kagome his birthday presents early as an apology.
    • We didn't mean to exclude him, it's just that we didn't think Hana would do anything -- much less anything drastic. Hazou was just scoping out if she'd be amenable to helping reverse the damage she caused.
    • Hazou is conflicted and doesn't know how to reconcile Hana's actions with his feelings for his mother. He's upset, and still figuring this out, but also understands why Kagome is upset. He regrets to have thrown this at him.
  • Lunch with Ino.
    • Let her know our findings.
      • Not really important in the grand scheme, but having something mundane to focus on is a nice distraction.
  • Hazou takes an out-of-the-way C rank mission (or multiple D-ranks) for a day or three.
    • Something uplift related.
    • Just chill out and take a break from the madness. Maybe sleep in a comfy and familiar forest full of deadly chakra beasts that want to kill us.
      • Let everyone know roughly where we'll be.
      • Appraise Akane of the situation; if she seems open to doing so, ask if she would like to spend time with Mari and the team while Hazou is away.
      • Fallback to Noburi if not; offer him whatever necessary so he takes up our shifts and looks out for Mari.
YOUTH = needs feedback.
 
I really want to finish the chakra sensor project before we leave for the tournament.
I would like to, too, but we need to deal with the Kagome problem before we do so.
Tentatively not opposed?

Updates:
Ah. I apologize. I was not referring to that part of the plan, but rather, for when we leave to Mist.

I don't really approve of Hazou running away from his problems in such a fashion.

(Besides, there are more productive ways to relax. Like sealing.

e: Not even sealing research if you think that's too risky. Just sealing. :p)
 
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This is a much gentler way than I'd normally phrase it, which is more along the lines of "1) Don't be a hypocritical ass. 2) I know I fucked up, I know how the error occurred and how to prevent it, and if necessary I'm willing to play your ridiculous monkey signaling games until your inner monkey is convinced of that fact / satisfied that I'm still a worthy ally. 3) No seriously, this whole thing is beyond stupid, can we go back to trying to fix the world plz?"
Out of curiosity, how does that usually work out for you?

Also, who are the people to whom you are typically using this strategy?

plz decrease limits by at least 100. Otherwise I have to find compelling arguments to push back on plan bloat, and hey look, a distraction!
Yeah, I find myself thinking the same thing. We went 400/200 to start but I think 300 base with 100 word thresholds would have been better. I might try that for the Sunday update, since it doesn't seem like it would be problematic based on the last few plans.
 
My writing style distinctly does not lend itself to low word count, so it would be an adjustment to have to lower wordcount even further, but that's fine.
 
Out of curiosity, how does that usually work out for you?

Also, who are the people to whom you are typically using this strategy?

Pretty excellently, and pretty much everyone I interact with on a regular basis, although:
  1. I can practically smell your incredulousness from across the country
  2. The particular text above is intentionally pointed for effect, and also not considered to the extent it would be if I were communicating to a real person about a real issue
  3. Text lacks substance and nonverbal cues that allow for much higher bandwidth conversation in person, without which any attempt to diffuse an emotionally charged situation is going to be far more difficult, especially if you and your interlocutor have limited history and/or they are primed to approach with hostility
  4. I don't expect this "strategy" to work for pretty much anyone who hasn't invented it for themselves from first principles; it isn't a cheap trick or a get-out-of-jail-free card, but rather a shortcutting of {untranslatable} that only works if you already know where to go / how to navigate to the desired endpoint
  5. Being a former socially nonfunctional apathetic schizoid helps, because then you can credibly and reliably signal that you simply aren't going to be unduly influenced by monkey dynamics, but that you do actually care about the object level thing, so really there's no point in wasting all that energy (and the funny/sad thing is, monkey brains already adequately model all of this and the tantrum state just evaporates not unlike a toddler's fake cries when they realize the effort is wasted)
  6. No seriously, strongly negative affect emotions are like uncaught exceptions from system 1. Debug that shit and figure out why yours/their system is screeching to a halt. It's almost never something you have immediate introspective access to unless you've spent a lot of time focusing and noticing fine-grained details of your metacognition. Fixation on surface-level details is just another flinch/aversion response.
  7. idk like 20 more bullet points probably but maybe you're slightly less incredulous now, or maybe just slightly less assured of my sanity
 
Give Kagome his birthday presents early as an apology.
I don't think this is actually a good idea. Receiving birthday presents early seems like it would be kind of a let down. I think the right thing to do would be to schedule time where we were together, away from any distractions, with the ability to talk or remain silent as needed.

Honestly, going on a fishing trip seems like the right choice. I don't know if either one of us knows how to actually fish, but that might be besides the point.
 
I don't think this is actually a good idea. Receiving birthday presents early seems like it would be kind of a let down. I think the right thing to do would be to schedule time where we were together, away from any distractions, with the ability to talk or remain silent as needed.

Honestly, going on a fishing trip seems like the right choice. I don't know if either one of us knows how to actually fish, but that might be besides the point.

EXPLOSIVE FISHING!
 
[X] Oh shit we actually need a plan
Regarding Mari, I suggest informing either Anko or Neira of the situation, as they seem to be simultaneously a) on good terms with Mari, b) experienced ninja, c) with no long personal history that would let Mari think she'd brainwashed them. Another possibility is informing Shikaku, but that likely has to be done through Jiraiya.

Also, are we going to bring up to Jiraiya the idea of selling the casino seals to the Yakuza (and subsequently cooperating with them to socialize with visiting dignitaries)? Or are we going to push it forward every voting cycle until we've already left for the tournament?
 
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I'm not actually sure Hazou's allowed to take C-ranks of his own volition as a genin.

Pretty sure all missions outside of Leaf are at minimum C-rank, if not, we still got them from Ito back before the exams:

Ito shrugged unapologetically. "Those are the C-ranks I've got right now. If your sensei and the jōnin commander both sign off on you doing a B-rank mission that's fine, but genin don't go on A-ranks." She gestured off to the side where a giant stack of papers balanced precariously on a table against the wall. "Plenty of D-ranks, but those aren't hardly worth it."

Also we should animate Mari to prepare for Kagome's birthday, she is probably already pepared, but maybe she completely forgot while being locked up in her room.

Further, we should sell Akanes hair pin and buy Kagome something fancy.
 
Do you think Kagome would like an inkbrush version of "The Team Plays Games"?
 
So you want an artist to paint it in just a few days right before we leave for the exam?
I'm thinking we can commission it and have it ready by the time we're back from the tournament.

(We give him the other presents as well, obviously, since we already acquired them.)
 
Okay, I love Kagome to death, but he also needs to take this chance to learn that he is the last person to give anybody shit about this. His entire time in the team has been the team proactively attempting to keep him from making unilateral decisions without telling anybody. The first time, he obliterated a dozen explicitly no-kill combatants and almost got himself killed before getting Mari seriously wounded. Next, he murdered forced Mari to eventually murder his team leader and completely wreck a critical political play all of the clan's wealth was invested in. Then he deliberately hid his intentions again and sold himself into servitude trying to fix it.

If we're going to address this matter we need to take advantage of his being on the other side of it for once to make him understand before he actually does do something irreparable which won't be retconned.



Critiques:

I'm not actually sure Hazou's allowed to take C-ranks of his own volition as a genin.

Not sure it's a good idea to go straight from "I'm sorry for doing this thing" to "remember how you did this thing too funny huh".

I kind of feel like we should apologize to Mari as well. I'm not sure what to do beyond that. She still won't believe us if we tell her she can be better.

Jiraiya inducted them as provisional chunin.
 
Also, are we going to bring up to Jiraiya the idea of selling the casino seals to the Yakuza (and subsequently cooperating with them to socialize with visiting dignitaries)? Or are we going to push it forward every voting cycle until we've already left for the tournament?
Excellent point. It's things like these (general approval but we keep forgetting about it) that belong on our list of side-projects. I put it near the top because it's fairly time-sensitive.
Side Project Order of Operations: Because we have way too many to easily keep track of.
  1. Kagome's birthday present
  2. Consult Jiraiya regarding selling Casino Seals to Mist Yakuza
  3. Get other combat seals approved
  4. Kabuto Research Proposal
Sealing/Research queue:
  1. Larger Storage Seals/Better Macerators (more detail on goals needed)
  2. Mountain Seals et al. [When Jiraiya is available]
  3. Black Paper Seals (Skywalker viability?)
  4. Movable Force Walls
  5. Purifier Variants
I'll keep a link to this handy so I can keep track of what we should be doing next when we have spare time. If anyone has anything that we've been meaning to do but I forgot to list, or if you disagree with the priority I've placed them in, please speak up!

Okay, I love Kagome to death, but he also needs to take this chance to learn that he is the last person to give anybody shit about this. His entire time in the team has been the team proactively attempting to keep him from making unilateral decisions without telling anybody. The first time, he obliterated a dozen explicitly no-kill combatants and almost got himself killed before getting Mari seriously wounded. Next, he murdered forced Mari to eventually murder his team leader and completely wreck a critical political play all of the clan's wealth was invested in. Then he deliberately hid his intentions again and sold himself into servitude trying to fix it.

If we're going to address this matter we need to take advantage of his being on the other side of it for once to make him understand before he actually does do something irreparable which won't be retconned.

The difference here, as I think Kagome would see it, is that Kagome tends towards unilateral decisions without consulting anyone in the moment when there's no time to explain. If it's do or die you don't ask permission before saving the lives of the people around you. Meanwhile what we did was completely forget about him for over a half hour of planning, even though we were side by side with him taking care of Mari, and only thought to say anything to him after we had all signed off on it and put it into motion. Kagome doesn't ask permission because he can't afford to, we didn't ask permission because we didn't care about his opinion.

[Kagome perspective ends]

I'm sure you could argue that Kagome is guilty of that kind of negligence too, such as when the situation wasn't do-or-die, but the fact of the matter is that our goal is to make up with Kagome, not to show him his own errors, especially since him making the same mistake as us doesn't mean what we did wasn't a mistake.

I can still see this angle being useful, at least as a contingency if the conversation goes a certain way, but I don't think this should be the thrust of our point. If it's wrong to unilaterally make decisions, excluding the rest of the team, when a misjudgement could be disastrous, then Hazou still messed up big time and needs to apologize, so I can only really see this argument being useful as a side-point if Kagome presses the issue as if he's innocent of it.
 
I don't think this is actually a good idea. Receiving birthday presents early seems like it would be kind of a let down. I think the right thing to do would be to schedule time where we were together, away from any distractions, with the ability to talk or remain silent as needed.

Honestly, going on a fishing trip seems like the right choice. I don't know if either one of us knows how to actually fish, but that might be besides the point.

Regarding Mari, I suggest informing either Anko or Neira of the situation, as they seem to be simultaneously a) on good terms with Mari, b) experienced ninja, c) with no long personal history that would let Mari think she'd brainwashed them. Another possibility is informing Shikaku, but that likely has to be done through Jiraiya.

Also, are we going to bring up to Jiraiya the idea of selling the casino seals to the Yakuza (and subsequently cooperating with them to socialize with visiting dignitaries)? Or are we going to push it forward every voting cycle until we've already left for the tournament?

Good points, but I'm not going to be updating the plan today. Feel free to cannibalize anything you like.

I'm happy to vote for anything with Hazou taking time away and/or doing anything to resist brainwashing by Hana.
 
I'm happy to vote for anything with Hazou taking time away and/or doing anything to resist brainwashing by Hana.
The way my current plan is specced out it looks like we'd be spending most of the day in a joint Keiko/Hazou operation to restore order to the universe through explosions and mercantilism.

That sound good?
 
Buying up all the chocolate? Expensive, and a waste of money.
We can literally print money, money is not an issue.

Wasting time doing ridiculous shit pay D ranks for fuzzy feelings when we can spend that time more efficiently Getting Shit Done is not a particularly worthwhile time investment either.
 
Pretty excellently, and pretty much everyone I interact with on a regular basis, although:
  1. I can practically smell your incredulousness from across the country
  2. The particular text above is intentionally pointed for effect, and also not considered to the extent it would be if I were communicating to a real person about a real issue
  3. Text lacks substance and nonverbal cues that allow for much higher bandwidth conversation in person, without which any attempt to diffuse an emotionally charged situation is going to be far more difficult, especially if you and your interlocutor have limited history and/or they are primed to approach with hostility
  4. I don't expect this "strategy" to work for pretty much anyone who hasn't invented it for themselves from first principles; it isn't a cheap trick or a get-out-of-jail-free card, but rather a shortcutting of {untranslatable} that only works if you already know where to go / how to navigate to the desired endpoint
  5. Being a former socially nonfunctional apathetic schizoid helps, because then you can credibly and reliably signal that you simply aren't going to be unduly influenced by monkey dynamics, but that you do actually care about the object level thing, so really there's no point in wasting all that energy (and the funny/sad thing is, monkey brains already adequately model all of this and the tantrum state just evaporates not unlike a toddler's fake cries when they realize the effort is wasted)
  6. No seriously, strongly negative affect emotions are like uncaught exceptions from system 1. Debug that shit and figure out why yours/their system is screeching to a halt. It's almost never something you have immediate introspective access to unless you've spent a lot of time focusing and noticing fine-grained details of your metacognition. Fixation on surface-level details is just another flinch/aversion response.
  7. idk like 20 more bullet points probably but maybe you're slightly less incredulous now, or maybe just slightly less assured of my sanity
Incredulity, yes.

I was perfectly willing to believe you that it worked for you once you said it did. Once you said "everyone I interact with regularly", "not unless they invented it themselves", and "former socially nonfunctional apathetic schizoid" I felt that I understood why it works for you.

This. Explosives solve all problems, after all.
 
I feel like we ignored Kagome because he isn't really part of it. This whole thing is kinda personal between the four, Jiraiya isn't really aware and he is the clan head after all. It's unfortunate and needs to be corrected, but Kagome isn't exactly involved in this part of the family business.

It occured to me that between Hana, Mari and Kagome really only Mari was aware that making Hazou choose between Hana and Mari would just cause trouble and pain. Hana used Mari's confrontation to break her instead of keeping it under control and even Kagome had an 'just because she is your mother'-moment. That's stupid, of course Hazou would at least partly side with his mother. Only Mari recognized that she would hurt him by trying to fight this and removed herself, choosing suffering instead. Can we please tell her that she is even better than Hana in this regard and thank her for being a good human (for once)? She didn't want to hurt anyone anymore, in a way Hana failed more then Mari here (perhaps justifed, but still).

Anyway we also need to followe up with her uncle, we really need to get her to finally tell us everything. NO FUCKING SECRETS ANYMORE AHHH.
 
So should we try talking about the hivemind, or....
Once again, Hazou doesn't know about us but we can always ask him to say that he's being controlled by an interdimensional hivemind with a penchant for weapons of mass destruction. I'm not sure how we'd have to frame it to convince him, but I'm sure we could find a way.
 
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