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I wonder if we could reasonably expect to be able to arrange a meeting between Hazou and Ami when we go to Mist for the tournament. I'm not joining the Amizou contingent by any means. And I realize this could fail in innumerable ways, not least because Hazou doesn't actually know her reasoning right now.

But I can't help but feel she's making the same mistake we, and Hazou, have in the past, regarding Keiko's agency. She's vastly underestimating her sister's mettle, and ignoring her agency. While Keiko is fragile, she is far less so than she was when she left Mist. And it would be such a travesty if she assumed Kei to be the same, easily-manipulable person she always was.
 
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I wonder if we could reasonably expect to be able to arrange a meeting between Hazou and Ami when we go to Mist for the tournament. I'm not joining the Amizou contingent by any means. And I realize this could fail in innumerable ways, not least because Hazou doesn't actually know her reasoning right now.

But I can't help but feel she's making the same mistake we, and Hazou, have in the past, regarding Keiko's agency. She's vastly underestimating her sister's mettle, and ignoring her agency. While Keiko is fragile, she is far less so than she was when she left Mist. And it would be such a travesty if she assumed Kei to be the same, easily-manipulable person she always was.

I see you have been conscripted by the Amizou alliance!
 
Talking about opposing shipping, I never got why people preferred the storage scroll truck idea (sell tons of really expensive boxes to civilians to store their less-valuable goods, encourage murder-theft of said civilians, get said civilians to carry resources through the dangerous wilds at civilian speeds) to just teleporting goods from one village to another with a pair of summoning contracts and a couple of paid posts on the Animal Path.
 
Talking about opposing shipping, I never got why people preferred the storage scroll truck idea (sell tons of really expensive boxes to civilians to store their less-valuable goods, encourage murder-theft of said civilians, get said civilians to carry resources through the dangerous wilds at civilian speeds) to just teleporting goods from one village to another with a pair of summoning contracts and a couple of paid posts on the Animal Path.
Merchant Council.
 
Talking about opposing shipping, I never got why people preferred the storage scroll truck idea (sell tons of really expensive boxes to civilians to store their less-valuable goods, encourage murder-theft of said civilians, get said civilians to carry resources through the dangerous wilds at civilian speeds) to just teleporting goods from one village to another with a pair of summoning contracts and a couple of paid posts on the Animal Path.

It takes work to establish working relationship and partnership on the animal paths.

We moved on the storage seal warehouse anyway.
 
This seems... overly cautious. We'd be selling a service that benefits civilian traders. We should at least ask, no?
It takes work to establish working relationship and partnership on the animal paths.
We can offer the same service for inter-clan trading, FWIW. I don't know if these guys trade much, but if they do...

Plus even a minimal tax would be blindingly profitable.
 
This seems... overly cautious. We'd be selling a service that benefits civilian traders. We should at least ask, no?

We can offer the same service for inter-clan trading, FWIW. I don't know if these guys trade much, but if they do...

Plus even a minimal tax would be blindingly profitable.

Which increases our reliance on the animal path and the pangolins, which is contrary to our goal of getting income equal to our pangolin blood money.
 
Which increases our reliance on the animal path and the pangolins, which is contrary to our goal of getting income equal to our pangolin blood money.
On the contrary, if we can convince the Pangolin that a peaceable method is better that accomplishes our goals there just as well.
 
Which increases our reliance on the animal path and the pangolins, which is contrary to our goal of getting income equal to our pangolin blood money.
I can see arguments both ways, but ultimately our biggest risk is waiting until the pangolins have a sufficiently large stockpile of our seals that they can say no when we ask them to be less mean.
 
I wonder if we could reasonably expect to be able to arrange a meeting between Hazou and Ami when we go to Mist for the tournament. I'm not joining the Amizou contingent by any means. And I realize this could fail in innumerable ways, not least because Hazou doesn't actually know her reasoning right now.

But I can't help but feel she's making the same mistake we, and Hazou, have in the past, regarding Keiko's agency. She's vastly underestimating her sister's mettle, and ignoring her agency. While Keiko is fragile, she is far less so than she was when she left Mist. And it would be such a travesty if she assumed Kei to be the same, easily-manipulable person she always was.
This is a really good observation. Ami had no opportunity to see how much Keiko had grown. We'd just need a reason for Hazou to figure out what Ami actually did so he could fix the misunderstanding by explaining that Keiko can deal with things now that she couldn't when Ami knew her. That now she needs Ami as a sister more than she needs Ami as a protector.

Maybe just talking to Ami for other reasons and talking about how Keiko has been growing tremendously as a person would be enough for Ami to figure it out, though. And how much Keiko clearly misses Ami very badly, to really push home the motivation for Ami to change tactics with an emotional thrust straight to the heart.

There are good reasons to talk to Ami, too. Like we could go to her to ask for advice in how best to be a supportive sibling to Keiko, something that Ami is the most qualified person on the planet to opine about. Plus if Jiraiya has mentioned that Ami was in the negotiations that might arouse curiosity that there's something very unusual and interesting going on there.

Edit: I'd also be very interested to see whether Ami would be supportive of the Uplift concept, if it happened to become a topic of conversation. @faflec, do I recall right from the negotiations interlude that she seemed to be working for (or possibly in charge of, somehow) a reformer faction?
 
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Edit: I'd also be very interested to see whether Ami would be supportive of the Uplift concept, if it happened to become a topic of conversation. @faflec, do I recall right from the negotiations interlude that she seemed to be working for (or possibly in charge of, somehow) a reformer faction?
Jiraiya hid his surprise. Suddenly things were getting interesting, because what the girl had just said was, The third party I represent will back the Mizukage's claim to power against all future challengers if she can prove herself by making this alliance work and taking down Akatsuki. He was damned if he knew who the third party actually was, though he had a few guesses, but the effect on the others was unmistakable.

Mori Biwako gave her a "We're going to have words about this when we get home, young lady" look, and wouldn't Jiraiya pay to be a fly on that wall. Ryūgamine gave a dry chuckle, which was what he did when he decided that the enemy hadn't brought enough men (which was to say, every damn time). Wakahisa laughed boisterously, with an ambiguous note of approval. And the Mizukage… the Mizukage had a pleasant expression that gave away nothing, because of course she did.

Jiraiya had a distinct sense that he'd just seen a piece of Mist's internal politics that an outsider wasn't meant to see. His mind was already going into overdrive. What did the kid have to gain from pulling this stunt in front of him? How had she even made it to this dinner if she wasn't on the same page as her clan head? How had Mori Biwako, a woman he was pretty sure had already worked out a counter to every one of his publicly known techniques, and at least half of the rest, been taken off guard by one of her own?

The pieces clicked into place one by one. Mori Biwako had the Mizukage's permission to bring her husband to this dinner. That had been a transparent enough show of strength. On even footing, Jiraiya reckoned he could take Ryūgamine three times out of four—but there was no such thing as even footing against a shinobi who never held back, never ran out of firepower and never left anything to chance. Jiraiya should have hated the bastard after everything he'd done, and without a doubt, that woman was watching to see if he'd let his emotions cloud his judgement when suddenly faced with an old foe. But Jiraiya had found, during the war, that by the time you were waist-deep in blood you started to care less which of a thousand enemies had spilled it, and while he might never forgive the man for what he'd done, he wasn't going to spend nights awake thinking about him either.

No, the interesting part was that it was a show of strength against the Mizukage as well. Back in the day, Mori Ryūgamine had been tipped for the hat, and to this day it was unclear (at least to Leaf) why he'd yielded it to the younger and less experienced Yagura. It wasn't the Frozen Skein. That hadn't been in Ryūgamine's Bingo Book entry, suggesting that he'd married into the clan and his logistical brilliance was entirely his own. Bringing him to an event like this was a show of support, a trial for Jiraiya to overcome while the Mizukage watched and waited for opportunities. But at the same time it was a reminder for the Mizukage to toe the party line. She was replaceable, and they didn't want her to forget it.

So the Mizukage had allowed Mori Biwako to bring him here. It was ultimately in her interests, and Jiraiya suspected it would have cost her to refuse. She wanted a controlled environment, without a large audience, but she also didn't want to be forced into siding with Jiraiya if it came to a two-on-one conflict against the Mori, so she invited Wakahisa—she had the necessary pretext, the "family gathering", and presumably she expected him to ally with her if push came to shove. Jiraiya didn't know enough to tell how justified that was, or why.

Now, assuming that enormous chain of guesses and assumptions was right, Mori Biwako had taken advantage of one family member's invitation to bring in another. The kid—no, it was worth making a note of her name now—Mori Ami was an effective counter to that woman's efforts to restore the numbers advantage, and with the former Mizukage candidate and a third faction's representative on board, the Mori clan head must have been preparing a serious blow against the Mizukage. Jiraiya imagined she'd force her to commit to something big in front of him, something which would strengthen the Mori's position and advance their own agenda in the negotiations.

All within the context of a pleasant family dinner, of course, without any of those other pesky diplomats to get in the way.

Then her darling grandsomething had swept the carpet from under her. In a context where the Mizukage was being reminded of her vulnerability before her backers (which Jiraiya assumed the Mori to be), Mori Ami was offering the woman the support she needed, on the condition that she follow Ami's foreign policy. At the same time, she was essentially holding the threat of alliance with the Hokage over everybody's head, saying that if they weren't going to steer the negotiations the way she wanted, she'd back the Hokage who would. Jiraiya almost wanted the Mizukage and Mori Biwako to turn her down just so he could see what her game plan was for supporting the sovereign leader of another state against her own. He doubted she was going to go the Keiko route.

Oh, and technically there was a message in there for him as well. If he didn't put his money where his mouth was when it came to making this alliance, then he would become the common foe, and Ami's faction would make sure Mist unified against him. Without any knowledge of what that faction was (something Ami was blatantly taking advantage of), Jiraiya had no way of evaluating the threat. Not that it mattered. She was either on board with his key diplomatic goals, or pretending well enough to serve his purposes, at least for now.
Make of this what you will.
 
This is a really good observation. Ami had no opportunity to see how much Keiko had grown. We'd just need a reason for Hazou to figure out what Ami actually did so he could fix the misunderstanding by explaining that Keiko can deal with things now that she couldn't when Ami knew her. That now she needs Ami as a sister more than she needs Ami as a protector.
Has she grown, though? Yes, she's mechanically stronger and able to put on an act when planned, but in most intrinsic regards she seems to have gotten worse.
 
Looking back at the chapter from Ami's POV, I noticed a couple things:
Their time was up. Keiko couldn't afford a connection with the Mori, much less a vulnerable emotional one. Not until she assumed her full power within the Nara Clan and decided for herself what to do with it. Right now, Ami knew five different people on the Mori side alone who would exploit Keiko ruthlessly in order to shift the balance of power between the two clans.
Relatively obvious, Ami has no intention of staying estranged from Keiko. Maybe it's a misjudgement on Ami's part, thinking that Keiko can't stand up to the rest of the Mori on her own, but either way Ami's got plans to reunite with Keiko sometime after she marries Shikamaru.
But the timers didn't stop for love. Ami had to be in control, always in control, because nobody else shared her skills and her priorities.
This, though, is quite interesting. I get the feeling Ami's got big plans in the works, and whatever third party she represented at that dinner may only happen to coincide with her real goals.

Also, Ryūgamine sounds really powerful and we shouldn't forget he exists. He sounds like he's easily S-rank and one S-ranker can mean a lot for a village in Mist's position (heck, they already got Zabuza back)
 
Relatively obvious, Ami has no intention of staying estranged from Keiko. Maybe it's a misjudgement on Ami's part, thinking that Keiko can't stand up to the rest of the Mori on her own, but either way Ami's got plans to reunite with Keiko sometime after she marries Shikamaru.
Maybe!?
This, though, is quite interesting. I get the feeling Ami's got big plans in the works, and whatever third party she represented at that dinner may only happen to coincide with her real goals.

Also, Ryūgamine sounds really powerful and we shouldn't forget he exists. He sounds like he's easily S-rank and one S-ranker can mean a lot for a village in Mist's position (heck, they already got Zabuza back)
Ryugamine seems to be Mist's Shikaku-equivalent: incredible intellect but not quite the combat monster that brings him up to S-rank. Of course, they could be pretending.
 
I am reminded again of how fascinating Ami is.

Yes, regardless of Kei, it is necessary that we make friendly contact with Ami.
 
I just don't see character development here, and a bunch of her character traits have gotten more exaggerated (see below for just one comparison). But I'm not trying to argue she's gotten worse (I don't think it's all that important to the point), I'm asking what makes others think she's gotten better.
Start of story:
Wakahisa moved to put a hand on her shoulder. "Mori, I –"

Mori slapped it away with a quick, sharp movement. Then her eyes seemed to focus.

"I'm sorry!"

She looked down at the muddy water, and took a few long breaths.

"I'm OK. I'm sorry for distracting you two from the mission. That was stupid. I'm OK."
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Suddenly, Kagome-sensei's hands landed on top of hers, pushing the lid down again.

With a startled cry, Keiko leapt back several metres, landing in a defensive crouch. Wide eyes flickered between Kagome-sensei and Hazō, as if watching to see which one attacked first.

"Oh," Kagome-sensei said, looking stricken. "I'm so sorry, Keiko. I moved on instinct. Are you all right?"

Keiko straightened up slowly. Her hands remained clenched. The panic faded from her eyes, replaced by bitter hatred.

"You were supposed to be family", she spat, then stormed off before Hazō or Kagome-sensei could say a word.

"What in the abyss were you thinking, Kagome-sensei?" Hazō asked after they were done staring after her. "You know how she feels about being touched."

"I didn't—it wasn't—she was about to open the box! What kind of idiot opens a strange box when they don't know where it came from?"

"Oh." When he put it that way, it made perfect sense. One of the first things Hazō had learned from Kagome-sensei was to trust a gift no more than you trusted the giver, and usually less. Back when the "treacherous stinkers" in the villages near his forest called him the Black Hunter, sometimes they left offerings for him. Obviously, they were poisoned and/or traps, and Kagome-sensei knew better than to go near a single one.

Hazō was confident that this particular gift was safe, but of course there was no way he could say that.

"Kagome-sensei, I think you should go apologise to Keiko. I'll check the box for traps."

Kagome-sensei swallowed as if he was about to enter a chakra rabbit's den without a gorget, and headed for the stairs. "Don't forget to Dispel in case of genjutsu seals," he said absently.

"There are genjutsu seals?!"

"Not anymore," Kagome-sensei muttered as he left.

Hazō frowned. Why would Kagome-sensei bother to remind him about something as obvious as checking for poison needles?


He'd just finished giving the box the most cursory of checks when Kagome-sensei returned.

"No good. She's locked up in her room and won't talk to me." He gritted his teeth. "Stupid idiot of a sealmaster. Wasn't long ago if anyone tried to grab my hands out of nowhere, they'd be ashes before I knew what was happening. Stupid, stupid!

"I should wait here until she comes back," Kagome-sensei said after a pained silence. "Got to tell her I'm sorry."

"I'll wait with you," Hazō decided. It wasn't what he had planned for the morning, but if he'd read the situation right, then a still-recovering Noburi had taken the time and effort to fix a family conflict that had nothing to do with him. If Hazō wanted to someday be able to protect the emotional health of the clan in Noburi's absence, he could start by paying it forward.

"Thanks, Hazō. You're a good kid."

Without Jiraiya, Mari-sensei or Noburi (the latter having spent the night in hospital to make sure a recurring ache wasn't delayed-effect poison), it was a very quiet morning. Hazō and Kagome-sensei had tried talking seals, but the mood just wasn't there.


A few hours later, Keiko finally emerged, eyes red. Her hands were clasped behind her back, the way she sometimes held them while deep in thought, but her arms were tense.

"I—I apologise for overreacting," she said. "I know you meant no harm by it. I know I should have more control over my… responses. Over everything. I should not keep inconveniencing people with my own unnatural failings."

"No, I'm sorry, Keiko!" Kagome-sensei exclaimed. "I wasn't thinking, and I should have known better, and I never, never meant to hurt you."

"I know," Keiko said. "I know that."
 
Keiko's got a lot of spine now, but that doesn't mean she's beyond hidden vulnerabilities. If anything's going to be a vulnerability for Keiko it's going to be the Mori, and Keiko is Brittle Queen of Ice so if someone hits her vulnerabilities then down comes everything.
My "Maybe" was referring to you saying that Ami might have misjudged [Keiko not being able to standing up to the Mori]. Since, as you say, she has vulnerabilities and the Mori clan would abuse the living f*ck out of her to improve their political position.
-quote showing Keiko reacting far worse to physical contact recently-
I would argue that this is because Keiko is in a (relatively) safe position, i.e., her new home. Whereas before (and with other in-story situations) she was a missing-nin with death waiting around every corner. She likely didn't expect Kagome to touch her.
 
My "Maybe" was referring to you saying that Ami might have misjudged [Keiko not being able to standing up to the Mori]. Since, as you say, she has vulnerabilities and the Mori clan would abuse the living f*ck out of her to improve their political position.
The way you said it, it sounded like 'of course Ami is misjudging Keiko', which felt like a reasonable position (if one I personally disagreed with) given how much spine Keiko has now. To be clear, a misjudgement on Ami's part would be if Keiko is capable of standing up to the Mori, since Ami assumed Keiko couldn't.
 
Regarding Ami...

You know how Keiko noted that the current trend of ninja was downward back during the original conversation on Scorch Squads?

Ami is also in the position to notice that trend, and is in a position to affect that in Mist, as we are in Leaf.
 
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