*laughs in Kei's tactical supremacy, even ignoring Pangolins, and Jiraiya Goo Bombs, and whatever tricks she learns in the next month*
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
*laughs in Kei's tactical supremacy, even ignoring Pangolins, and Jiraiya Goo Bombs, and whatever tricks she learns in the next month*
- Location
- Potato land
It's emotionally healthier for the kids to play things straight, I think, or at least mostly straight. Nobody is going to be happy about losing intentionally, and fixing the match will also interact poorly with Keiko and Noburi's self-esteem issues.
I also don't think the matchups will be that important. If Keiko and Hazou meet in a semifinal, it's unlikely that either of them will have a major relative advantage in the finals. Realistically, they both roll basic combat skills at a level sufficient to bruteforce through most of the opposition easily, before you even bring Pangolins, seals, or optimized battle plans into the mix.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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The problem in fighting his team is that Hazou matches most closely to an Artificer, not a Wizard. He makes everyone around him stuff that makes them better. Including himself, yes, but the stuff he's made doesn't improve himself exclusively sufficiently to overcome his teammate's more specialized roles.
So while he'll do great against someone outside of his team, his team benefits just as much from his seals as he does, and I don't really think it's wise to keep those he researches from them.
So while he'll do great against someone outside of his team, his team benefits just as much from his seals as he does, and I don't really think it's wise to keep those he researches from them.
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- Location
- UK
Those aren't the only options! Open mind!
If they need a genuine spar for self-esteem reasons, they can do that over the break.
Can someone who actually understands the rules run a simulation of Noburi and Kei sparring? I've tried twice now, and had to restart both times because I f*cked something up.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
As far as I understand it: Kei wins initiative, throws at 40+5 (chakra boost)-1(PTJ) versus Noburi's 35+4-1(PTJ) for an average victory threshold of 9, or three shifts, plus one for Weapons:1 Kunai. This takes out his PTJ and inflicts two points of stress to him.Can someone who actually understands the rules run a simulation of Noburi and Kei sparring? I've tried twice now, and had to restart both times because I f*cked something up.
After that, he doesn't really have a chance at closing distance with Kei or hitting her with Syrup Trap (35, 30 versus her athletics of 40), so he has to do something else. Unsure of what he'd do.
e: Perhaps he'd unload a few storage scrolls worth of water on the arena, follow that up with an Air Dome, and drain through that?
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Does Pantakrator's Hammer not apply to RW?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I don't think she's got it high enough to give two tags?
e: Although if she used that, Noburi would have the chance to engage on her using her inability to chakra boost afterwards, and the fact that the tags are only usable on her initiative to close at 39 (chakra boost) versus 40.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
She doesn't.
Hazou can use PH Effect up to 1.5 (PH Aspect Bonus) which is 3 for him. Max is two tags (unfortunately...)
Keiko can use up to Effect 1.5 => Effect 1.
This means Hazou has +2x (Athletics Aspect Bonus) on his dodges in addition to other fate point aspect buffs. This might allow him to dodge Keiko's throws, actually? It certainly skews the average towards him dodging, a bit.
Hmm... I suppose we could get Noburi a ranged water jutsu, but not to combat levels on the XP he'll get in a month...
(unless SC farms work very well, of course)
(unless SC farms work very well, of course)
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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Yep. It requires him to actually be able to go, though. He can't use PH off-turn.
e:
Just level Syrup Trap, it's already at 30.
e: It'd be 177.5 XP to get it to 40 with the elemental jutsu discount.
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Not much of a ranged technique. You need to be in the same zone.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
- Location
- [REDACTED]
RE: Pangolin summoning in the tournament.
We should be optimizing for some combination of these three main factors 1) usefulness in 1v1 arena-style combat, 2) chakra cost, 3) not stealing the show/glory from Keiko. Character agency, of course, but I think Keiko's best bet here is Pangaya.
Precisely because she can keep Keiko safe and out of harm's way while allowing Keiko to show her offense power and skill. All while not eating too much CP. The only other pangolin that seems worthy of consideration when balancing these factors is Panchipāma, who seems kind of like a brawler spec and only costs 105 CP. Panshe also costs 105CP, but she's less combat speced than Panchipāma. Pankurashun and Panjandrum are quite expensive (thus worse along factor 2), and seem more likely to steal the show (thus worse along factor 1). Pandojuru is a bit more expensive than Pangaya, and although Pandojuru is also a good support spec summon they likely aren't as good at protecting Keiko from harm. Keiko's overwhelming offensive power should be enough to take out pretty much anyone, so long as she isn't taken out first and Pangaya helps with that more than anyone else.
We should be optimizing for some combination of these three main factors 1) usefulness in 1v1 arena-style combat, 2) chakra cost, 3) not stealing the show/glory from Keiko. Character agency, of course, but I think Keiko's best bet here is Pangaya.
Precisely because she can keep Keiko safe and out of harm's way while allowing Keiko to show her offense power and skill. All while not eating too much CP. The only other pangolin that seems worthy of consideration when balancing these factors is Panchipāma, who seems kind of like a brawler spec and only costs 105 CP. Panshe also costs 105CP, but she's less combat speced than Panchipāma. Pankurashun and Panjandrum are quite expensive (thus worse along factor 2), and seem more likely to steal the show (thus worse along factor 1). Pandojuru is a bit more expensive than Pangaya, and although Pandojuru is also a good support spec summon they likely aren't as good at protecting Keiko from harm. Keiko's overwhelming offensive power should be enough to take out pretty much anyone, so long as she isn't taken out first and Pangaya helps with that more than anyone else.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yes.
I actually think we had this discussion a month or two ago. Syrup trap is garbage for range. Last time I believe @faflec reminded @MadScientist of this.
Yeah... that was my reaction too.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
And so the chain continues.
I had always been working under the assumption the technique was intended to allow closing range on someone who had higher athletics than yours but lower than your ST. What's it good for otherwise?
Pandojuru actually seems rather good for one reason and one reason alone: Defend the Log in an arena setting is king.
- Location
- [REDACTED]
Does Pangaya have Defend the Log?
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Nonlethal capture.
This is some shit I can get behind.
*Imagines Keiko throwing Glorious DTL + PH + Boosted Pot shots through defensive jutsu like a freshly forged katana through lukewarm butter armor.*
- Location
- Yes.
zap lunch
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Can someone who actually understands the rules run a simulation of Noburi and Kei sparring? I've tried twice now, and had to restart both times because I f*cked something up.
Keiko = 190 chakra
Noburi = 500 chakra
They start in the same zone. This is a training ground with plenty of SUBSTITUTION TARGETS around.
KEIKO will CHKA BOOST for +5 (now 165/190 chakra)
NOBURI will CHAKRA BOOST for +5 (now 425/500 chakra - he pays triple cost for all chakra use remember)
Keiko has an Alertness of 31, Noburi has an Alertness of 30. Keiko goes first. They start in the same zone.
KEIKO TURN 1
Keiko uses Vacuum Step as a supplemental action to move 2 zones away. Now at 149/190 chakra.
NOBURI realizes now that he basically can't touch her until she runs out of chakra because she'll just keep vacuum-stepping away every time he closes and his Ranged weapons skill is not good.
NOBURI: Oh, fuck you sis.
KEIKO: Now, now, you just have to wear me down!
NOBURI (thinks: maybe if I use a supplemental action to move one zone and then another supplemental action to Substitute with a target near her)
KEIKO continues her action (Vacuum step was only a supplemental) by drawing and throwing a blunted kunai at Noburi.
KEIKO result is -3 (roll) + 40 (ranged weapons) + 5 boost -1 conditioning jutsu = 41
NOBURI defend is -6 (roll) + 35 (Athletics) +5 boost -1 conditioning jutsu and uses SUBSTITUTION as supplemental action to substitute one zone closer to Keiko for an additional +3 (half substitution level) = 36 (42 chakra, 383/500)
Uh-oh. 41-36 = 5 / 3 (and round up) = 2 stress + 1 from Weapon = 3 stress. Noburi's Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu drops and he takes his first stress box.
NOBURI TURN 1
Noburi spends a supplemental action to activate WATER WHIP (48 chakra, 335/500). Noburi ponders what to do with his Standard Action. He could put up GHOST SCALES, but is 1 point of armor really worth the chakra cost? Hozuki's Mantle won't be fo great help against a single opponent. Finally he elects to Spend his Standard Action doing something that won't cost Chakra. Noburi begins whipping his WATER WHIP around in front of him, forming a BLOCK against KEIKO's next attack.
-3 (roll) + 40 (water whip) = 37 Block.
TURN 2
KEIKO will CHKA BOOST for +5 (now 124/190 chakra)
NOBURI will CHAKRA BOOST for +5 (now 308/500 chakra)
KEIKO uses a SUPPLEMENTAL ACTION to move back one zone. Now two zones away. Now throws a kunai at Noburi.
KEIKO result is +3 (roll) + 40 (ranged weapons) + 5 boost -1 conditioning jutsu = 47
She beats the block and her Kunai slips through the gaps in Noburi's water whips. He can still try to dodge, though.
NOBURI defend is +9 (roll) + 35 (Athletics) +5 boost and uses SUBSTITUTION as supplemental action to substitute one zone closer to Keiko for an additional +3 (half substitution level) = 52 (42 chakra, 266/500) With a substitution he easily dodges adn advances on Keiko at the same time.
KEIKO Smirks and uses VACUUM STEP to move 2 zones away with her remaining supplemental action. Now at 108/190 chakra.
NOBURI: OH FUCK YOU!
....and I don't have time to write more. Note they're both at about half chakra, though Nobui won't need to activate water whip a second time.
...it might be worth spending 1000XP on a wind affinity just for that jutsu.