Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Voting is open for the next 2 days
Reader mode
Jello_Raptor said:
@OliWhail : That was wonderful, that team is our Jesse and James. :lol
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does this mean that they'll eventually turn out to be Eternal Rivals and actually Not That Bad After All?
e: Oh, uh, we should decide on what we're doing for training plans. That's a discussion that I forgot about.

I'm still leaning toward bumping up combat stats because I doubt we'll be able to hide from her and whatever her guard is. ...On the other hand, we could always henge into a rock or something.

...Wait, why haven't we been using henge to transform into camouflaged versions of ourselves?
 
Last edited:
Cariyaga said:
I'm still leaning toward bumping up combat stats because I doubt we'll be able to hide from her and whatever her guard is. ...On the other hand, we could always henge into a rock or something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I like your earlier training plan. Maybe replace Stealth with Chakra Capacity for Keiko.

Cariyaga said:
...Wait, why haven't we been using henge to transform into camouflaged versions of ourselves?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Like camouflage-patterned skin, clothes, and everything? Maybe even camouflage-texture, since we're not limited to paints? We should totally do that.
 
Last edited:
We should ask Jiraiya if he has a directional seal-detector seal he'd be willing to share. It would make identifying the target easier.
 
So Rank 10 is when Henge can be done without hand seals, right? We could shoot for that and have active camo skin and do minor henge changes. We become Mystique from X-Men just like that.
 
Traiden said:
So Rank 10 is when Henge can be done without hand seals, right? We could shoot for that and have active camo skin and do minor henge changes. We become Mystique from X-Men just like that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's a great way to run out of chakra, plus vision is only one way to get noticed. Not worth it IMO, Stealth would be a better way to spend our short-term XP.
 
faflec said:
Let's save the discussion on long-term projects for the long-term, and focus our current efforts on not dying horribly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

@faflec: You know, you do this often enough to be mildly annoying. We're pretty good at focusing on the short term problem when there's something to deal with. Right now we don't have a vote upcoming and still need information to have a useful discussion about the short term.

I'd really appreciate it if, when you want us to stop talking about long term plans in favor of short term concerns, you have an active suggestion on what we should be taking about instead.

I'd actively appreciate a "Can we drop this long term musing for now? We need to discuss X, Y, and Z to make sure we survive the next few updates.", it keeps us on topic and helps the thread focus.

You have a habit of saying, "Can we drop this long term musing for now? The short term is more important." without any concrete suggestions on what we should talk about instead. Which seems like you're just complaining about the SNR1​ being too low in a way that decreases it.

Edit: @faflec, good lord on a re-read the entire above post sounds dickish. I'm on a phone so I'm not going to bother rewriting it, but please take it in the spirit I intend it. Namely, well meaning constructive criticism, not a personal attack.

Edit 2: Mind this goes for everyone. If you don't think what the thread is talking about is useful, speak up and say so, just have a suggestion of something you think is more useful.

[1]: Signal to Noise Ratio. Higher means more signal (useful content) per unit of noise (non-useful content).
 
Last edited:
Since Akane can't correctly learn that Pangolin jutsu because human and pangolin chakra systems are too different, do you think that means that they can't teach us TH? It sounds like we might need a human teacher to be able to learn how to TH with a human chakra system properly.
 
MadScientist said:
Since Akane can't correctly learn that Pangolin jutsu because human and pangolin chakra systems are too different, do you think that means that they can't teach us TH? It sounds like we might need a human teacher to be able to learn how to TH with a human chakra system properly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That would suck, but be workable if we earn favors from Jiraiya.
 
Alright people, do we want to try and spend XP now? Since XP-plans are sacred and we can't change them later, spending on skills relevant against a sealmaster might backfire. Mostly this is relevant with Keiko, since she has plenty of 110 XP left to burn.


Now, what is relevant against a sealmaster? Dodging explosions is probably VERY relevant. Here are the rules as a reminder:

Dodging explosive traps: Awareness + 1/5 TacMove

Dodging melee/ranged explosives: TacMov

Dodging melee/ranged explosives with Substitution: Substitution + 1/2 TacMov


I don't think Stealth 12 is going to do much for us this mission so we should forget that for now and focus on don't-get-blown-to-bits skills. The exception would be Keiko since she has the XP to get a reasonable amount of Stealth for this mission. She can only get max 17 Stealth with her XP though, and I think it's safe to assume that our opposition can roll jounin level Awareness, especially if they have alarm seals.

Vampiric Dew 15 might open up mist draining for Nobby, which would be super useful if it happened.

Social skills would also open up good options against the target, but only Keiko and Nobby have the XP to up those and people very against social Nobby in the last vote. I feel like we would need more discussion if we wanted to go that way anyway. (Also, I very much doubt that we are going to clear this mission without a fight.)



So here are some of the options:

Hazou 31 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15
  • Option 2: Awareness 14, Substitution 9
  • Option 3: Substitution 11
  • Option 4: TacMov 16
Akane 19 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 10, Substitution 9
  • Option 2: Substitution 10
Noburi (Assuming we bank the XP for MedKnow 10) 51.5 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15, Substitution 9
  • Option 2: TacMov 17 (+Substitution 9 if we take 2.5 XP from MedFund)
  • Option 3: TacMov 16, Substitution 10
  • Option 4: Substitution 12
  • Option 5: VampDew 15, Substitution 10
Keiko 110 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, Substitution 11
  • Option 2: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, TacMov 17
  • Option 3: Awareness 15, Capacity11, TacMov 16, Substitution 10
  • ...and many more

We have about 8 hours if we want to vote something in. Thoughts? Opinions?

EDIT: Some XP talk from before:
1234qwerty said:
Training:
Hazou 31 exp.
3 possible training plans.
23 exp for Stealth 12(new group par?), 7 exp for MEW 7, 3 exp for effectiveWeapons 4. 0 exp remaining.
29 exp for Awareness 15. 2 exp remaining.
24 exp for MEW 9, 7 exp for effectiveWeapons 5. 0 exp remaining.

Akane (presumably) 29 exp.
3 possible training plans.
27 exp for Awareness 11. With 1 extra exp could raise weapons to 3.
23 exp for Stealth 12. With 1 extra exp could raise weapons to 4.
10 exp for Awareness 10. 11 exp for Stealth 11. 7 exp for Weapons 4. 0 exp remaining.

Noburi 76.5 exp.
23 exp for Stealth 12. Tempting to raise Vampiric Dew to 15 for 29 exp. Other than that I'm at a loss. Raise water whip? I'll leave Noburi to someone else.

Keiko 110 exp.
Stealth 12. 23 exp
Capacity 11. 22 exp
Awareness 13. 23 exp or
Awareness 14. 37 exp or
Awareness 15. 52 exp
Diplomacy 12. 35 exp
Weapons 20. 53 exp
Stealth 12
Capacity 11
Awareness 15. 13 exp remaining

Stealth 12
Capacity 11
Weapons 20. 12 exp remaining.

Capacity 11
Diplomacy 12
Awareness 15. 1 exp remaining.

Capacity 11
Diplomacy 12
Weapons 20. 0 exp remaining.

Stealth 12
Diplomacy 12
Awareness 15
0 exp remaining. 1 exp short of replacing Awareness 15 with Weapons 20.
The above doesn't account for possible deal making skill. We could try lucking out and asking for Jiraiya/Inoue's advice in getting a really good deal with a diplomacy focused pangolin, then using their help for better deals recruiting future pangolins. If pangolins can henge, that pangolin for could be useful for human diplomacy too, with care for cultural differences.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
Twofold said:
Alright people, do we want try and spend XP now? Since XP-plans are sacred and we can't change them later, spending on skills relevant against a sealmaster might backfire. Mostly this is relevant with Keiko, since she has plenty of 110 XP left to burn.


Now, what is relevant against a sealmaster? Dodging explosions is probably VERY relevant. Here are the rules as a reminder:

Dodging explosive traps: Awareness + 1/5 TacMove

Dodging melee/ranged explosives: TacMov

Dodging melee/ranged explosives with Substitution: Substitution + 1/2 TacMov


I don't think Stealth 12 is going to do much for this mission so we should forget that for now and focus on don't-get-blown-to-bits skills. The exception would be Keiko since she has the XP to get a reasonable amount of Stealth for this mission. She can only get max 17 Stealth with her XP though, and I think it's safe to assume that our opposition can roll jounin level Awareness, especially if they have alarm seals.

Vampiric Dew 15 might open up mist draining for Nobby, which would be super useful if it happened.


Social skills would also open up good options against the target, but only Keiko and Nobby have the XP to up those and people very against social Nobby in the last vote. I feel like we would need more discussion if we wanted to go that way anyway. (Also, I very much doubt that we are going to clear this mission without a fight.)



So here are some of the options:

Hazou 31 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15
  • Option 2: Awareness 14, Substitution 9
  • Option 3: Substitution 11
  • Option 4: TacMov 16
Akane 19 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 10, Substitution 9
  • Option 2: Substitution 10
Noburi (Assuming we bank the XP for MedKnow 10) 51.5 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15, Substitution 9
  • Option 2: TacMov 17 (+Substitution 9 if we take 2.5 XP from MedFund)
  • Option 3: TacMov 16, Substitution 10
  • Option 4: Substitution 12
  • Option 5: VampDew 15, Substitution 10
Keiko 110 XP:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, Substitution 11
  • Option 2: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, TacMov 17
  • Option 3: Awareness 15, Capacity11, TacMov 16, Substitution 10
  • ...and many more

We have about 8 hours if we want to vote something in. Thoughts? Opinions?

EDIT: Some XP talk from before:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

For Keiko, I want to tilt fairly hard into Deal Making and Capacity, so she can go into the Summon Realm and actually try to get some combat summons. That's long overdue, and she'll have a good change. Does anyone have @eaglejarl's post about the DealMaking details?
 
eaglejarl said:
'Deal Making' is a sub-skill of Diplomacy. The attributes are 3 * Manipulation + 3 * Composure. (This is a subset of the requirements for Diplomacy.) It only covers negotiating mutually agreeable exchanges between willing parties under calm conditions, and can only be used once everyone has already agreed to negotiate. If skill checks are necessary then you would use Diplomacy to convince someone to negotiate, then use Deal Making for the actual negotiation.

When you're in a situation that allows the use of Deal Making you may add (½ * Deal Making) to your Diplomacy rating for purposes of the deal. Deal Making starts at 0. If you have Diplomacy 10 and Deal Making 8 then you have 14 dice when negotiating with someone who wants to work with you and it's possible to find an arrangement that makes everyone happy.

Example: If you're at 10 Diplomacy and want to go to 14 it would cost you 50 points (not counting attributes). Getting Deal Making from 1 to 8 to end up with the same total would cost 36; it's a significant savings but not enormously so. Alternatively, Diplomacy 20 costs 210 XP whereas Diplomacy 15 + Deal-Making 10 costs (120 + 55 =) 175.

Diplomacy is a superset of Deal Making in that it can be used in the seconds leading up to a fight, can be used to make agreements that are not happy-making for all parties, and can be used to convince people of things that are true but not known/believed by that person. All that Deal Making can do is let you haggle effectively when the other person is willing to haggle, things are calm, and you can find a win/win solution. It would not have been useful back in 'Epic Diplomancy', for example.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Twofold said:
Since XP-plans are sacred and we can't change them later,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Actually, someone suggested earlier that we might include a "If this plan isn't trained before the next update then it is null and void." clause in plans that we don't want to lock in, and that sounds perfectly fine to me.

It was the "We voted for this but it wasn't done." that I objected to, not updating on new information, and this seems like a good work-around since it makes nullifying the result under specific conditions an explicit part of the result that we voted for.
 
Some good options for Deal Making Keiko would be:
  • Option 1: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, Deal Making 8
  • Option 2: Awareness 15, Capacity 11, Deal Making 6, Substitution 9
  • Option 3: Awareness 14, Capacity 11, Deal Making 6, Substitution 11
  • ...etc.

For the uninitiated:
  • Deal Making 6 = Effective Diplomacy 13
  • Deal Making 8 = Effective Diplomacy 14

For a more fighty Keiko, I would actually get her TacMov instead of Weapons. Just sub the Awareness 15 with a TacMov 18 in any of the options I have given out for her. (EDIT: Also works with Weapons 20.)
 
Last edited:
Alright, so here's how Keiko can get Deal Making.

DM 1 - 1 XP
DM 2 - 3 XP
DM 3 - 6 XP
DM 4 - 10 XP
DM 5 - 15 XP
DM 6 - 21 XP
DM 7 - 28 XP
DM 8 - 36 XP
DM 9 - 45 XP
DM 10 - 55 XP
DM 11 - 66 XP
DM 12 - 78 XP

For Dip 10->11, it'll be 23 more XP for a total of 101.

This will give her a +6 bonus to peaceful negotiation Diplomacy rolls, making her a 17-dicer when dealing with the Pangolins. More than enough.

Now, I don't think it's a good idea to go all the way on this. DM 10 would be fine with me.
 
[X] Training Keiko: Cap-Weap-DM
Capacity 11 [22]
Dex 7 [36]
Weapons 19 [55]
Weapons 20 [75]
Deal Making 1-6 [96]
Save 14 XP [110]

One short of DM 8 :mad:
 
Sleeps Furiously said:
If we're trying to use macerator seals to spread sleepy spores and pepper among our enemies, then weapons 20 would be helpful for that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, Weapons 20 would be the better option if we get to attack first from surprise. If we don't manage to surprise her and end up with an actual fight, then I would argue in favor of defense.

But then again, we are kinda banking on a flawless victory here from surprise here. Our wounded team members can't really take any hits.

Weapons 20 it is then.

OliWhail said:
[X] Training Keiko: Cap-Weap-DM
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Add Substitution 9 and I'll buy it.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open for the next 2 days
Remove ads
Back
Top