@Sir Stompy Given the importance of Hazou during infusing rune blanks, it's extremely likely that each set of Hazou SCs will have bodyguards to protect him, likely including the group sent in to tunnel underground with the Superchiller blank. I'm struggling to figure out how to thread the needle between "Hazou needs to infuse the Superchiller before the fight starts so he can use it if it goes poorly" and "Hazou needs to keep Superchillers secret from people".
The best idea I have at this moment is having a Tsunade clone be the guard for this particular Hazōclone. Hazō, obviously, will not elaborate on the runes he brings. If she asks, refuse to answer.

If the worst case scenario occurs and either (A) Tsuande clone informs us that Orochimaru and our other heavies have fallen, or (B) the Tsuande clone pops without warning and Hazō can no longer feel the draw of Cannai on his reserves…then we activate Project Twilight.

If the worst doesn't happen then we disarm the runes as normal (can we even disarm an infused superchiller?) and don't bring any attention to it. If Tsuande is suspicious about it, or worse, forced us to tell her what it is, then it'd be bad but not apocalyptic.
 
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The best idea I have at this moment is having a Tsunade clone be the guard for this particular Hazōclone. Hazō, obviously, will not elaborate on the runes he brings. If she asks, refuse to answer.

If the worst case scenario occurs and either (A) Tsuande clone informs us that Orochimaru and our other heavies have fallen, or (B) the Tsuande clone pops without warning and Hazō can no longer feel the draw of Cannai on his reserves…then we activate Project Twilight.

If the worst doesn't happen then we disarm the runes as normal (can we even disarm an infused superchiller?) and don't bring any attention to it. If Tsuande is suspicious about it, or worse, forced us to tell her what it is, then it'd be bad but not apocalyptic.
I still think this is too risky; Tsunade's clone will 100% want to know what this unknown rune is, and will 100% go back and poke Hazou Prime to figure it out. That's conflict we cannot afford to have, especially with Orochimaru Prime likely with Tsunade Prime and Hazou Prime.

A part of me actually wants to risk not infusing the Superchiller until the battle is lost. Like, have Hazou Prime hide with the Force Dome, which is underground and not easily found, and risk the 10 minutes it takes to infuse the rune and hope the enemy doesn't regroup, locate us, dig 200m underground, and kill us, in that time. Or do the same somewhere else underground, since it'll end the same way.
 
If the worst case scenario occurs and either (A) Tsuande clone informs us that Orochimaru and our other heavies have fallen, or (B) the Tsuande clone pops without warning and Hazō can no longer feel the draw of Cannai on his reserves…then we activate Project Twilight.
Scenario B seems likely to lead to false alarms (which would be really really bad). If Tsunade goes down and her clones pop, and Cannai gets popped, but Oro is still online and fighting and most of Akatsuki is already down, we would not want to activate Superchillers. Hazō Prime will be outside the dome (one assumes) so he should have a good view on how the fighting is going, in extremis he should be able to make another clone and pop it to convey the Superchiller-triggering message.
 
@Sir Stompy This might be considered a bit audacious of me to ask, but could you ping me anytime you make a plan change so I can copy it?

If Tsuande is suspicious about it, or worse, forced us to tell her what it is, then it'd be bad but not apocalyptic.
Honestly, I think we could get through a scene like this where Hazo quietly admits he has weapons (a weapon?) far more chilling (heh) than the RERs, but he fears that using them could be the first step toward the literal end of all life on the planet, one way or another, and so is holding it secretly in reserve as a last-resort. He asks Tsunade to keep it secret, not to press for details etc. Brings up Kei's warnings and arguments if he has to.

I still think this is too risky;

Depends on your model of Tsunade. Personally, I don't think her knowing that these WMD exist would be any worse in the long run than, say, Mari knowing about them. She'll not want them to spread, and she probably won't randomly kill Hazo about it. What matters is how she acts in the moment, and I think Hazo can be persuasive about not using it unless forced + force dome containing it so it's not as bad as it would otherwise be to make the scene as a whole work. It is walking a bit of a tightrope, admittedly. Lean too far in either direction and bad results.
 
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@Sir Stompy Given the importance of Hazou during infusing rune blanks, it's extremely likely that each set of Hazou SCs will have bodyguards to protect him, likely including the group sent in to tunnel underground with the Superchiller blank. I'm struggling to figure out how to thread the needle between "Hazou needs to infuse the Superchiller before the fight starts so he can use it if it goes poorly" and "Hazou needs to keep Superchillers secret from people".
I think it's vanishingly unlikely that Hazoupilot would infuse the Superchiller in front of Orochimaru if he was guarded, but I can account for that lol.
 
@Sir Stompy

I have gone deep into the spreadsheets and come out with an even more optimized Chakra budget. We can recover 13600+ CP over 17 hours with careful usage of SCs as chakra capacitors. This would allow us a total of 35,600 CP to work with, allowing us to afford:
  1. 10x Hazō SCs with a total of 400 CP each + Further CP ear marked for runic infusions.
  2. 5x Tsunade SCs w/ Strength of 100 (1600 CP each).
  3. 10x Orochimaru SCs w/ 600 CP each
  4. All 5 bosses.
  5. Ma and Pa
  6. All 20 jonin summons.
  7. 5x Kurenai SCs w/ 500 CP each
  8. 3x Mari SCs w/ 500 CP each

1. First we need to calculate the efficiency of using SCs as Chakra capacitors.
  • This can be approximated as 'Efficiency' = "1-('SC_Jutsu_Cost'/'Marginal_CP_Capacity')".
    • 'SC_Jutsu_Cost' = 150 + 25 * 'SC_Quantity'
    • 'Marginal_CP_Capacity' = 'SC_Quantity' * 'SC_CP_Capacity'.
    • Assumption: The SCs have time to get refilled to max.
  • This means that raw Chakra reserves are far more important than quantity of SCs cast when it comes to maximizing capacitive efficiency.
    • Ex: Hazō would have to spend 350 CP, summoning 8 SCs for 3280CP of marginal capacity before he could match the efficiency of Tsunade spending 175 CP to cast 1 SC for >1600 CP
    • Furthermore Tsunade would have to spend 1/4th the clone hours as Hazō for the same marginal capacity.
  • So Tsunade, Orochimaru, Mari, and Kurenai are probably our most efficient CP capacitators (in that order).
2. Then we need to assess SC hour limits. Breaking these into tranches by SC jutsu level:
  • Tranche A: 40 > SC > 30.
    • I would be shocked if either of the Sannin had less than 49 resolve. This would translate to a maximum of 38 cumulative clone hours.
    • Kurenai probably has at least 39 resolve for 25 clone hours. Mari certainly has at least this much, given that she's been FOOMing
  • Tranche B: SC > 40
    • Hazō has 63 resolve for 58 clone hours.
    • Kei has 69 resolve for 64 clone hours
3. Next we need to figure out how much time we spend storing up CP in SC capacitors. I am assuming T-17 hours from attack time. This will give us 17*800=13600+ of extra CP to work with.
  • With 20k in organic chakra sources we should be seeing 833 CP regen per hour, I'm rounding that down to 800 for safety.
  • If we are already closer to the attack time than T-17 we can probably just spend a FP to declare that we started summoning SCs at T-17.
4. Now this just leaves us with the actual budget planning:
  • Strategy:
    • Prioritize capacitors in order of most efficient to least, but avoid exhausting combatant clone hours.
    • Don't let any regen go to waste, keep expanding CP capacity so that we can capture all possible regen over the 17 hour time period.
    • Summon Hazōs' 9 SCs as early as possible since they can pull double duty as a fairly efficient capacitor.
5. Kurenai is probably better at 1-on-1 Genjutsu fights whereas Mari is better for her massed attacks. We probably want to have more Kurenai SCs than Mari SCs.


Actual Plan:
  1. T-17
    1. CP_Current: 22k
    2. CP_Max: 22
    3. CP_Regen: N/A (CP maxed)
    4. Summon: 4x Mari SC (assuming 600 CP total reserve) - costs 0.25k
    5. CP_Updated: 21.75K
    6. CP_NewMax: 24.4k
  2. T-14
    1. CP Current: 24.15k
    2. CP_Max: 24.4k
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(17-14) = 2.4k
    4. Summon: 2x Tsunade SC (1600 CP), 4x New Mari SC - costs 0.45k
    5. Release: 4x old Mari SC
    6. CP_NewMax: 27.6k
    7. CP_Updated: 23.7k
  3. T-11
    1. CP Current: 26.1k
    2. CP_Max: 27.6k
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(14-11) = 2.4k
    4. Summon: 2x Tsunade SC (1600 CP), 5x Kurenai SC - costs ~0.5k
    5. Release: 4x old Mari SC, 2x old Tsunade SC
    6. CP_NewMax: 28.2k
    7. CP_Updated: 25.6k
  4. T-8
    1. CP Current: 28k
    2. CP_Max: 28.2k
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(11-8) = 2.4k
    4. Summon: 8x Kei (she needs to take a mild consequence from CP overcharge first), 2x Tsunade, 3x Orochimaru (assuming 800 CP w/o bioseals) - costs 0.8k
    5. Release: 5x old Kurenai SC, 2x old Tsunade SC
    6. CP_NewMax: 30.7k
    7. CP_Updated: 27.2k
  5. T-5
    1. CP Current: 29.6k
    2. CP_Max: 30.7k
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(8-5) = 2.4k
    4. Summon: 10x Hazō, allocate 400 CP each - costs 4.4k
    5. Release: Sannin SCs
    6. CP_NewMax: 29.1k
    7. CP_Updated: 25.2k
  6. T-2
    1. CP Current: 27.6
    2. CP_Max: 29.1k
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(5-2) = 2.4k
    4. Summon: 5x Tsunade w/ So100 (1600 CP) + 10x Orochimaru (600 CP) - costs 14k
    5. Release: Kei SCs
    6. CP_NewMax: Irrelevant
    7. CP_Updated: 13.6k
  7. T-0
    1. CP Current: 15.2K
    2. CP_Max: Irrelevant
    3. CP_Regen: 0.8(2-0) = 1.6k
    4. Summon: 5x Summon Bosses, Ma and Pa, 20x Jonin Summons, 3x Mari SC (500 CP), 5x Kurenai SC (500 CP) - costs 14k
    5. Release: Kei SCs
    6. CP_NewMax: Irrelevant
    7. CP_Updated: 13.6k

Edit: The math here is all fucked. I think i did a better explanation in my other post.
 
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Ask for volunteer Leaf ninja to take Mild and Moderate overdraw Consequences.
A note on this line - the Leaf ninja are currently holding some chakra back in order to be able to run away.
For the sake of your planning, between Leaf's chakra battalion and the captured Moon ninja, you will have 22000 CP available to allocate for your attack. Leaf's ninja currently intend to be at low-but-nonzero reserves in order to facilitate running away if things go south. Moon's ninja will all be drained to zero. This number includes chakra from your team, but does not count Orochimaru Prime, Tsunade Prime, or Kurenai Prime's reserves. All three intend to remain at full chakra going into the battle.
Injuring them seems counter to that.
 
Hey guys I just had a great idea; let's specify that in the plan.

@Sir Stompy @redzonejoe
I'm not usually a plan maker (in this thread). I'm not confident about making any changes to the plan, and so at the moment my strategy is to just copy @Sir Stompy's plan relentlessly. No need to ping me for changes unless you notice Stompy has already made them, in which case I would be highly thankful if you did ping me about them.

If anybody else wants to be more proactive and take up ownership of the plan, I'd be happy to give it over to you lol. Some forum editing should be enough to keep the tally intact.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative (Atheist Edition)
@Sir Stompy Given the importance of Hazou during infusing rune blanks, it's extremely likely that each set of Hazou SCs will have bodyguards to protect him, likely including the group sent in to tunnel underground with the Superchiller blank. I'm struggling to figure out how to thread the needle between "Hazou needs to infuse the Superchiller before the fight starts so he can use it if it goes poorly" and "Hazou needs to keep Superchillers secret from people".
One tunnel clone spends 30 minutes infusing the force dome, the other spends <10 minutes digging straight up, 10 minutes infusing Iron Earth, 10 minutes infusing Superchiller, remainder saying to bodyguards:
"Whoops. Tha~at's not good. Don't panic, I've seen this before. Outside world should be fine, provided this cave stays shut airtight for at least a week, and nobody..."
...or similar, timed to cut off mid-sentence as the force dome deploys and shadow clones get popped by freezing. If the battle goes so badly that it becomes necessary to flood the entire interior of the force dome with LOX, use RER shots to make a crater deep enough to expose the superchiller's AoE. As a bonus, also makes it that much less likely Akatsuki will be able to directly observe, much less capture, intact Iron Earth or Force Dome runes.
When Oro inevitably asks what that particular rune was intended to do, tell him orders from the Hokage specifically prohibit discussing it. He already suspects we were holding something back, this will get him bugging Naruto about it instead - who, as it happens, legitimately has no relevant information to give and will presumably take it as some sort of political play, which he needs to respond to with political skills of his own, which will hopefully frustrate Oro enough that something else will come up to distract him from further follow-up.
 
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I have gone deep into the spreadsheets and come out with an even more optimized Chakra budget. We can recover 13600+ CP over 17 hours with careful usage of SCs as chakra capacitors. This would allow us a total of 35,600 CP to work with, allowing us to afford:
  1. 10x Hazō SCs with a total of 400 CP each + Further CP ear marked for runic infusions.
  2. 5x Tsunade SCs w/ Strength of 100 (1600 CP each).
  3. 10x Orochimaru SCs w/ 600 CP each
  4. All 5 bosses.
  5. Ma and Pa
  6. All 20 jonin summons.
  7. 5x Kurenai SCs w/ 500 CP each
  8. 3x Mari SCs w/ 500 CP each
If true, you are a Wizard, sir.

I would be shocked if either of the Sannin had less than 49 resolve. This would translate to a maximum of 38 cumulative clone hours.
When they had basically unbounded chakra for the dragonwar, they chose to max out at 20 clone-hours.

Also, we probably don't want combatants to be anywhere near their limit for clone-hours, because that potentially makes mental consequences from Itachi into lethal attacks on prime.
 
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Moreover, what it could do that is even worse, is actually empower Jashin. Especially if the QMs DO go through the trouble to write up a whole new Jashin luck mechanic. At that point, Jashin will be absolutely cemented as the next big problem, the next arc of the story. What will we do after claiming the rift and bringing back the dead? What will we do when the likes of Jiraiya and Naruto can handle world politics and there's no more major antagonists? Can we win the game, bring uplift to the masses? NO! Because the next antagonist will be a fucking evil god that we willingly empowered, and we'll have to deal with that flavor of bullshit next. Dragons -> Akatsuki -> Out Entities. It's the natural escalation, really. How many Japanese stories go from fighting rats or whatever to trying to kill god with the power of friendship? Hell, 'Naruto' is one of those stories too.
Oh nooo... Whatever shall we dooo~

(Don't threaten me with a good time.)
 
Also, we probably don't want combatants to be anywhere near their limit for clone-hours, because that potentially makes mental consequences from Itachi into lethal attacks on prime.
True, but we could certainly have a few Snowflake's hanging around from T-12 onwards at the very least.

And there's certainly no reason not to have Tsuande and Orochimaru's clones be made at the latest at T-3.
 
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Also, we probably don't want combatants to be anywhere near their limit for clone-hours, because that potentially makes mental consequences from Itachi into lethal attacks on prime.

True, but this is a proof of concept. There will also probably be other random Leaf Jonin with us that know SC as well.

A Jonin w/ 400 CP, and then SC and Resolve at lvl 30 can summon 5 clones and sub in as a capacitor for in as a capacitor for 3 hours. That way we can reduce the clone hour load on our combatants.

Also, Mari probably has a higher resolve than I estimated (tbh).
 
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True, but we could certainly have a few Snowflake's hanging around from T-12 onwards.

And there's certainly no reason not to have Tsuande and Orochimaru's clones be made at the latest at T-3.
Yeah, but the schedule outlined has Tsunade taking 50+ clone-hours, which is crazy.

There will also probably be other random Leaf Jonin with us that know SC as well.
SC is heavily restricted, and I think Kurenai is the only Jounin in the Leaf contingent.
 
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Yeah, but the schedule outlined has Tsunade taking 50+ clone-hours, which is crazy.

Pretty sure it only has her taking 28. She's doing 3x 3-hour capacitor shifts with 2 SCs each, and then she's summoning 5x more SCs 2 hours before the fight. So that's only 3(3*2)+2*5=28.

EDIT:
SC is heavily restricted, and I think Kurenai is the only Jounin in the Leaf contingent.

As @Oneiros said, there are 8 other Jonin. More then that, the leaf-nin assigned to this mission would have been specifically selected because they're A) highly trustworthy, and B) have large chakra pools. Both of these are important traits for SC users and would increase the chance of a Jonin getting access to the Jutsu. Given this, I would be surprised if there was not at least 1 or 2 other Jonin with us who have the 40-CR/30-Resolve/30-SC stat-line needed to serve as a chakra capacitor.
 
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When they had basically unbounded chakra for the dragonwar, they chose to max out at 20 clone-hours.
Correction, they chose to limit the number of clones they deployed due to concerns about having more surfaces of exposure to the Beautiful Dragon. They seemed to indicate that they could field far more if it wasn't for that.
Tsunade and I will make a number of shadow clones, perhaps twenty apiece, and your brother will ensure these clones can fight at full capacity. Tsunade's clones will obviously be substantially more valuable than my own, but we will both limit our total clone number in order to limit exposure to the beauty Dragon."

It occurs to me that now that this SC chakra buffer idea is extremely valuable and is being held back for clone hour limits, it would be totally reasonable to ask Orochimaru and Tsuande to share their Resolve-Boost trick.
 
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It occurs to me that now that this SC chakra buffer idea is extremely valuable and is being held back for clone hour limits, it would be totally reasonable to ask Orochimaru and Tsuande to share their Resolve-Boost trick.
Quick straw poll on this.
  • Leave a Like if you think we should ask.
  • Leave a Funny if you think we should not.

EDIT: And by asking Orochimaru and Tsuande, what I really mean is "ask Tsunade." Upon further research, Orochimaru's trick seems to involve bioseals, which we don't have time for.

Still, Tsunade might have found tricks of her own on that front. Or just straight up inherited Senju techniques specifically designed for this.

"Do you have any additional blockers?" Orochimaru asked. "You must inform me if there are actions I can trivially take that would improve our odds of victory at O'Uzu."

"Clone-hours," Hazō said. "If I can get enough chakra, I'm only limited in how many runes I can make by the number of shadow clones I can run simultaneously. Can you help me integrate additional shadow clone memories?"

Orochimaru glanced at Hazō for a moment, then turned back to the twisting hallways of the underground facility. "I have nothing that will help you – not in the time we have allotted, nor without unacceptable tradeoffs given that you are still recovering from an extensive surgery. Is the transplanted chakra coil functioning as intended?"

"It is, from what I could tell," Hazō said. "I haven't had the chance to test it extensively, but I trust your work."
 
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