Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I remember Mari talking about how chakra-intensive Genjutsu is, and I assume it only gets worse the stronger the Genjutsu are.
Given that, does Mari think it would be better to have two clones on the field with 450 CP each, or three clones with 300 CP each?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Couldn't the plan just allot Mari a specific amount and let her pick?
- Location
- United States
I am fine with that as well.
- Location
- Yes.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Are Shadow Clones allowed to overdraw chakra, for example if they need to use a technique? Please ignore if this is poking the worldbuilding too much.
Remind me: Why no Toads beyond the Sages and Gamabunta?
Will the Superchiller be good to have an effect at 200m belowground? I know Hazou estimated it at being "several hundred meters", but just to be sure...
Three things:
- Whatever signal we use needs to be effective enough to not tip of Itachi and/or Kisame, who can also survive by escaping to the Seventh Path.
- Kurenai is the Monkey Summoner and should be included in such a signal.
- This plan kills Mari, who has no way of escaping the nuke. We can't use Superchillers without killing her, but I would like to just point that out.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
His Summons are triple (I think? maybe more) cost.
If they see our Summoners dip then they're smart enough to follow suit. The question is whether they're smart enough to stay away for a week.
'Yellow flare means Reverse Summon immediately' isn't anything that anyone can translate. However, if Kisame and Itachi see all our Summoners suddenly dip, they're smart enough to do the same.
Unless she's within the Force Dome there's no reason for her to know. My impression was that she wasn't going to be an active combatant.
...shit.
They cost as much as the Strength of the Hundred, and I'd rather have Mari Clones/Kurenai ones.
Do you have any alternative to this?
Kurenai and Mari Prime aren't fighting to the best of my knowledge.
The signaling is a valid point but I don't have a good answer.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Could we actually send a message that they need to reverse-Summon for an hour? Like, broadcast that actual message? It'll at least play information warfare with Kisame and Itachi.
I'm not worried about them intercepting our signals generally because...well, they're going to see our signals and we can't really stop that unless we sit down and invent the radio real quick. Limiting the use of our signals so they can't necessarily piece together what they mean is probably our best bet, and 'fuck fuck fuck reverse Summon' would be used once at most.
If we're counting on this, maybe we should specify so in the actual plan.
(Although I think it's better to have Mari in the field, for a better chance of winning the big fight. It might be better to keep Kurenai off the field, at targeting her is probably the easiest way to remove Enma from the fight)
Also, I'd much rather have 3 Kurenai SC than 3 Mari SC, because we want to shut down Hidan with Genjutsu rather than distracting Orochimaru Prime with him, and last time they fought, Mari couldn't quite catch Hidan. If Kurenai has better single-target genjutsu, she's probably the better play.
Best case is probably 2ish of each, so that if Itachi takes take one clone out with mental consequences and pops them, we still have some active genjutsu users on the field.
EDIT: actually, having a "we're fucked, evacuate" signal for the Sanin is silly, because if the Sanin are alive, we aren't fucked. It's very unlikely we'd want to activate the Superchiller unless, at minimum, both Sanin are already dead, so don't bother.
And this avoids the dangerous issue of letting them know we have a WMD.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Has Orochimaru elaborated on the specifics of Kisame's combat ninjutsu (that he is aware of) to the various summons participating in the assault?
I'm not actually asking for the details (although I'd love to get that list later as it'd be incredibly inspirational to see what situations Hazō might want ninjutsu for!), since my primary concern is whether the participants of the battle have been briefed offscreen. There's a large advantage in knowing how your enemies' tricks work.
This way, instead of developing a gigantic list of ninjutsu knowing most of which will never see the light of day, no further work is required beyond the ninjutsu actually pinned down and used in the chapter, which the combatants will have an easier time countering having already been prepared for it.
Last edited:
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative
The flip side of it is that our signal to Tsunade and Orochimaru needs to communicate to them that they should stay on the Seventh Path for a long while (not e. g. five minutes). How are we planning to communicate that in the middle of a battle? And if we arrange that with them beforehand, with the "signal" being e. g. a Hazou activating a Banshee Fucker, how are we explaining to them why they'd need to stay away for that long?
Last edited:
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative (Atheist Edition)
Word Count:<499
Desired Duration: Until the battle for the Rift
Exactly the same in every respect except no Jashin, that guy is a bit of a jerk. In the event this version of the plan differs from the other Armageddon Initiative, please defer to that one (except for the Jashin bit obviously), it just means I didn't have the time/awareness to copy the latest edits before the vote closed.
Word Count:<499
Desired Duration: Until the battle for the Rift
- Buy 3 FP
- Assualt the Rift
- Optimize with the Sannin/Uplift (separately)
- Budget the chakra
- Source additional chakra
- Have Noburi overdraw the Moon-nin, inflicting maximum Consequences, for extra chakra.
- Ask for volunteer Leaf ninja to take Mild and Moderate overdraw Consequences.
- Capture the natural chakra regeneration of everyone for the 16 hours leading up to the assualt.
- First 22000 CP
- 5 Tsunade SCs and 5 Orochimaru SCs refilled to 600 CP
- Shaping and infusion of 9 RER 2.0s split into 3 sections manned by Hazouclones with unrefilled Tsunade spotters
- Additional runic infusions, and Hazou SCs to infuse the preshaped runes. Additional chakra for tunneling.
- All the Clan Bosses, the Toad Sages, genin Summons as a screen for anti construct arrays.
- Put the rest into jounin summons
- Next 4000 CP
- Refill Kurenai clones to 300 CP
- Create 3 Mari clones and refill to 300 CP
- Finish Summoning the jounin Summons (no additional Toads)
- Next 5000 CP
- Cast Strength of a Hundred on the Tsunade Clones
- If chakra still remains:
- 1) Top off the the Kurenai/Mari Clones to 450 CP
- 2) Summon jounin Toads
- 3) Create and refill 2 additional Mari/Kurenai Clones refilled to 450 CP
- 4) Start Summoning chunin (Cansaku first)
- Source additional chakra
- Approach the Rift
- Use the plan discussed in the previous chapter.
- Shape the RER 2.0s at the staging area and carry them to their assualt positions. Fortify the emplacement with SCSA, SSSA, and skyslicer nets.
- Once emplaced, send aa duo of Hazouclones carrying (stored) Iron Earth, Force Dome and (secretly) Superchiller blanks
- They should approach via tunneling at least a couple hundred meters underground. To a point close enough to entrap the fortress but not so close as to run into defenses.
- One should infuse the Force Dome (timeladdered up once) and the other the Iron Earth (timeladdered twice)
- That second should then tunnel away from the first (to minimize chance of discovery) and infuse the Superchiller (timeladdered twice) at a depth of 200m.
- Once the Force Dome is infused, create a tunnel upwards to just a few meters under the surface so that the Force Dome chakra pillar can penetrate.
- Force Dome formation signals the bombardment to begin.
- The Battle
- Suggest all combatants dress alike and mask themselves to make them fractionally more difficult to identify.
- Kurenai Prime and Mari Prime should guard Hazou Prime, outside the Force Dome.
- Aim for any members of Akatsuki you can see as top priority targets.
- Below that, any concentrations of ninja.
- Set up signals that the assualt force can give via Banshee/signal justu for calling down shots on nearby positions -- to clear defenses or sealing arrays, for example.
- If Orochimaru and Tsunade go down and defeat is imminent, activate the Superchiller.
Exactly the same in every respect except no Jashin, that guy is a bit of a jerk. In the event this version of the plan differs from the other Armageddon Initiative, please defer to that one (except for the Jashin bit obviously), it just means I didn't have the time/awareness to copy the latest edits before the vote closed.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
He's a jerk who might withdraw some favor from Hidan when he gets attacked by Jashin's other Great Profit.
- Location
- Yes.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Yes, I'm aware of your religious beliefs, please respect my freedom to disagree <3
- Location
- United States
Can you put something in the plan to that effect? I didn't realize that Mari Prime wasn't going in until I read this.
[X] Action Plan: Armageddon Initiative (Atheist Edition)
@redzonejoe hazou's kills might automatically empower jashin even if he doesn't mentally dedicate them, unless he renounces jashin. Renouncing jashin when it might affect the battle might not get enough votes. But having someone besides hazou activate the RER, like tsunade said, is an alternative. Dunno if that affects the superchiller part of the plan
Edit: oh also hazou shouldn't wear the jashin amulet. That might also empower jashin
@redzonejoe hazou's kills might automatically empower jashin even if he doesn't mentally dedicate them, unless he renounces jashin. Renouncing jashin when it might affect the battle might not get enough votes. But having someone besides hazou activate the RER, like tsunade said, is an alternative. Dunno if that affects the superchiller part of the plan
Edit: oh also hazou shouldn't wear the jashin amulet. That might also empower jashin
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Do Air Leadeners make explosives more deadly the same way they would be if they went off underwater?
Do Air Leadeners make explosives more deadly the same way they would be if they went off underwater?
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Okay I haven't fully articulated my anti-Jashin arguments yet, so I'm going to give it an attempt just in case you guys haven't considered these points before. Somehow.
I am fairly strongly convinced that the QMs don't have some secret Jashin +x to rolls modifier Akatsuki will be using in the battle. Similarly, I don't think Jashin will allow the likes of Itachi or Sasori any rerolls the way our FP does. I am 100%, absolutely convinced that Jashin, the in-game entity, can't affect our real life (or digital) die rolls, I am not nearly superstitious enough for that.
What I do think Jashin can do is act as a tag for Hidan. Hidan can personally receive some buff or mechanical advantage from his god. This is, after all, what makes him immortal, and may affect him in other ways.
I do not think Hazo's silent prayers will affect that tag in any way. I do not think Hazo will himself gain a similar tag, or achieve sudden immortality.
In short, I am very strongly convinced that this will do nothing for us in terms of actual, fleshed out, currently existing game mechanics.
What it will do, however, is affect Hazo's own characterization. He will, forevermore, be the guy who silently prayed to Jashin during the most important moments of his life. He can't 'haha I was just kidding guys, Hidan was threatening me!' his way out of this genuine personal belief. I do not think the very slim odds that the QMs will see that line and decide to write up a whole new mechanic just for this fight is worth the hit to characterization that will mar Hazo forevermore.
Moreover, what it could do that is even worse, is actually empower Jashin. Especially if the QMs DO go through the trouble to write up a whole new Jashin luck mechanic. At that point, Jashin will be absolutely cemented as the next big problem, the next arc of the story. What will we do after claiming the rift and bringing back the dead? What will we do when the likes of Jiraiya and Naruto can handle world politics and there's no more major antagonists? Can we win the game, bring uplift to the masses? NO! Because the next antagonist will be a fucking evil god that we willingly empowered, and we'll have to deal with that flavor of bullshit next. Dragons -> Akatsuki -> Out Entities. It's the natural escalation, really. How many Japanese stories go from fighting rats or whatever to trying to kill god with the power of friendship? Hell, 'Naruto' is one of those stories too.
Hard pass, for me. The chances that Jashin will be a problem down the line is much, much higher than the chances that he'll somehow be helpful during this fight.
I am fairly strongly convinced that the QMs don't have some secret Jashin +x to rolls modifier Akatsuki will be using in the battle. Similarly, I don't think Jashin will allow the likes of Itachi or Sasori any rerolls the way our FP does. I am 100%, absolutely convinced that Jashin, the in-game entity, can't affect our real life (or digital) die rolls, I am not nearly superstitious enough for that.
What I do think Jashin can do is act as a tag for Hidan. Hidan can personally receive some buff or mechanical advantage from his god. This is, after all, what makes him immortal, and may affect him in other ways.
I do not think Hazo's silent prayers will affect that tag in any way. I do not think Hazo will himself gain a similar tag, or achieve sudden immortality.
In short, I am very strongly convinced that this will do nothing for us in terms of actual, fleshed out, currently existing game mechanics.
What it will do, however, is affect Hazo's own characterization. He will, forevermore, be the guy who silently prayed to Jashin during the most important moments of his life. He can't 'haha I was just kidding guys, Hidan was threatening me!' his way out of this genuine personal belief. I do not think the very slim odds that the QMs will see that line and decide to write up a whole new mechanic just for this fight is worth the hit to characterization that will mar Hazo forevermore.
Moreover, what it could do that is even worse, is actually empower Jashin. Especially if the QMs DO go through the trouble to write up a whole new Jashin luck mechanic. At that point, Jashin will be absolutely cemented as the next big problem, the next arc of the story. What will we do after claiming the rift and bringing back the dead? What will we do when the likes of Jiraiya and Naruto can handle world politics and there's no more major antagonists? Can we win the game, bring uplift to the masses? NO! Because the next antagonist will be a fucking evil god that we willingly empowered, and we'll have to deal with that flavor of bullshit next. Dragons -> Akatsuki -> Out Entities. It's the natural escalation, really. How many Japanese stories go from fighting rats or whatever to trying to kill god with the power of friendship? Hell, 'Naruto' is one of those stories too.
Hard pass, for me. The chances that Jashin will be a problem down the line is much, much higher than the chances that he'll somehow be helpful during this fight.
Last edited:
- Location
- Yes.
@Sir Stompy Given the importance of Hazou during infusing rune blanks, it's extremely likely that each set of Hazou SCs will have bodyguards to protect him, likely including the group sent in to tunnel underground with the Superchiller blank. I'm struggling to figure out how to thread the needle between "Hazou needs to infuse the Superchiller before the fight starts so he can use it if it goes poorly" and "Hazou needs to keep Superchillers secret from people".
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I don't really want to dedicate wordcount to anti-Jashin measures, I'm willing to let Hazopilot act as he sees fit, so long as Hazopilot doesn't secretly deep down believe. I think removing the prayer is enough to indicate that by following this plan instead of the other, we want Hazopilot to not believe and act accordingly. I would be a bit upset if the QMs saw this plan win, and then went out of their way to have Hazo wear the amulet and think to himself with some guilt that his kills might empower Jashin anyways.
If you feel strongly about it, I might consider it since I don't exactly have a lot of other support (yet) for this version of the plan, but mostly I just want to stick to Stompy's as closely as possible so nobody can raise any alternative objections to my plan. This one line being removed is the only difference.
No, in the sense that they don't increase air density. In fact being "harder" or more force-resistant would dampen the explosion if anything.
But also yes, in the sense that unless you wrap yourself in wind chakra, you can't dodge as well, making the explosive more deadly.
Shame almost all Akatsuki have wind-element.
@redzonejoe to clarify by automatically i meant mechanically any kill might automatically empower jashin. Im not talking about hazoupilot. I'm not gonna remove my vote over it