Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
Do the goddamn surgery you wusses! I'D PUT MY GODDAMN LIFE IN SNUNCLE'S HANDS, we're allied against the fundamental enemy, at a level the family can't understand.

If every moment I've seen from him has been deception to lead to this being a moment to kill us, then he wins, he tricked me, but I seriously don't think he even could. Now, he might uh, put something on us for later, but, burn that bridge when we get there.

[unvoted] Action Plan: Snuncle Warcrimes Experiences the Consequences of His Actions

good enough.
 
Last edited:
[X] Action Plan: Assessing Alternative Armageddons
Word count: 297
Intended Duration: As long as the following conversation(s) with the team takes
  • Explain Hazou's previous reasoning for the blood-swap operation
    • We need to be close enough to set up our RERs for our current plan but that would be within range of Hidan's tracking
    • Would Tsunade (disregarding the logistics of her arrival for now) overseeing the surgeries make those surgeries tolerable?
    • Even by maintaining stealth with operating Orochimaru still believes our odds of success are low
    • If we cannot fool Hidan's ability, perhaps we can out-range it?
  • We could alternatively ensure our rear's security by establishing an impassable ring around the Rift site...
    • ...but that would necessitate using EM since it is the only technique we have with a large and persistent enough effect
      • Kei would need to calculate how many EM explosions we'd require in order for us to stay safe and stay out of Hidan's hypothetical maximum range while we are inside of the EM perimeter
      • Sidenote: what's everyone's thoughts (and especially Kei's estimations) on disguising EM as a weird oceanic weather phenomenon? We could use it to disrupt shipping lanes by having the effect appear to originate from either the extreme north or south so that AMITY falls into crisis without Akatsuki immediately believing they are under attack. Ideally we'd cause enough chaos that Akatsuki would have to send S-rankers to oversee an emergency meeting, thereby limiting the total number of S-rankers (probably Konan) we would have to fight for the Rift.
        • Sea shipping because we'd limit the amount of damage we'd do to civilization as a whole
  • Or instead of using EM or bioseals... we could have Orochimaru intercept Hidan before he tracks us down
    • This would require Oro being near our sleeping quarters
  • Floor's open to other suggestions
  • Everyone please rank your least preferable to most of these options
If anyone else in the thread can think of other viable solutions to the Hidan tracking problem I'd love to add them and their reasoning into this plan (with due @ credit of course). For example, is there a better way to cause an AMITY-distracting international incident?

Let's have an actual conversation with our team instead of charging ahead with one option they universally despise. It's always been our team against the world, so we should frame the discussion as all of us brainstorming against the problem of Hidan tracking us and then coming to a consensus.
 
@Dictator4Hire, Hidan wouldn't come track us down alone. He'd know why we're here, and we'd effectively be giving surprise to the enemy.
I recommend removing that part of your plan, it won't pass the sanity check (and not in the way you want).
 
@Noumero , partially WC optimized version of your plan below. I've cut quite a lot, but I've tried not to change the content too much.

[] Action Plan: Snuncle Warcrimes Experiences the Consequences of His Actions
Word count: 324
  • Meet with Orochimaru, as an SC. Topic: a complication with biosealing.
  • Preparations:
    • The others travel several kilometers in an arbitrary direction, only return if Hazou gives an all-clear via the Seventh Path.
      • If Hazou doesn't report/reports days later, assume he's dead/compromised.
      • If Hazou couldn't reach a deal without the EM deadman's switch, Mari doesn't return. She lays low for weeks/months. If Leaf wins, but she learns of Hazou's death, lack of public appearances, or out-of-character behavior, she proliferates EM-nuke knowledge.
    • Stress-test Hazou's negotiating position with Kei. Ensure it's logically sound, consistent, dispassionate.
  • Tone:
    • Pragmatic, cooperative. The problem derives from game theory, not emotional distrust of Orochimaru. It presents a mutual inconvenience which we would like to resolve with his help.
  • Points:
    • Besides Orochimaru, Hazou is currently the only runecrafter alive.
    • Given the power of runecrafting, Orochimaru may expect Hazou eventually to become a credible threat to him, and may currently view him as an infosec risk.
    • Orochimaru is likely able to create bioseal kill switches in Hazou that could be activated after the assault to ensure a monopoly on runecrafting.
    • We might accept that risk and trust Orochimaru's word, given the stakes and given our need for blood-changing.
      • However, Hazou estimates a significant chance that a runecraft-monopoly Orochimaru may eventually convert the world into his Basement.
      • This may be worse than human extinction and is certainly worse than Akatsuki victory, barring truly nightmarish goals we've yet to see.
    • How do we resolve this concern?
  • Preliminary ideas (optimize with Team Uplift):
    • Oaths before Summons (Manda?).
    • Exfiltrate Tsunade early and have her oversee the surgery.
    • Deadman's switches with consequences Oro will dislike more than our continued survival. (Given the required scale, we do not like these.)
      • Do not give details.
  • BATNA: Assault proceeds without Cannai, and we hope Hidan is asleep/absent/not checking his blood sense.
  • (If Orochimaru seems receptive): Eventually, additional binding promises may prove useful (if achievable) to facilitate coexistence.

Dictator4Hire said:
We could alternatively ensure our rear's security by establishing an impassable ring around the Rift site...
  • ...but that would necessitate using EM since it is the only technique we have with a large and persistent enough effect
    • Kei would need to calculate how many EM explosions we'd require in order for us to stay safe and stay out of Hidan's hypothetical maximum range while we are inside of the EM perimeter
    • Sidenote: what's everyone's thoughts (and especially Kei's estimations) on disguising EM as a weird oceanic weather phenomenon? We could use it to disrupt shipping lanes by having the effect appear to originate from either the extreme north or south so that AMITY falls into crisis without Akatsuki immediately believing they are under attack. Ideally we'd cause enough chaos that Akatsuki would have to send S-rankers to oversee an emergency meeting, thereby limiting the total number of S-rankers (probably Konan) we would have to fight for the Rift.
      • Sea shipping because we'd limit the amount of damage we'd do to civilization as a whole
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A reminder that most of the team does not know the EM nuke exists. Also, we have no one who can cast EM and would have to use Superchillers, which we haven't researched yet and which only last ten minutes (so we'd need to research a longer-lasting version). Also, I'm fairly confident that an area at most 10 miles wide surrounded by EM nuke storms would rapidly become uninhabitable even if it would nominally be outside the maximum range of the storm. Also, what's even the point of doing this? Why are we trying to create an impassible perimeter around the Rift site?
 
Also, i think if we set up dozens of gigantic miles-wide storms, visible across the entire EN, outlining the rift site, then we no longer need to hide from Hidan. We no longer need to hide from anyone, for everyone on the entire fucking continent bears witness to our blazing beacon of frosty destruction and mayham.
 
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Snuncle Warcrimes Experiences the Consequences of His Actions
Word count: <500
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This... This is dangerous. This is playing with fire.

And we don't really have any better options here.

[x] Action Plan: Snuncle Warcrimes Experiences the Consequences of His Actions

At least, of all the times to maybe convince Oro to kill us, the best time is when he really really needs us alive and capable of cognitive tasks for a upcoming critical task.
 
Honestly, I personally think all of that paranoia actually is unwarranted. I mean, check this out:
Paperclipped said:
"My instinctive reaction is that I would rather fight a prepared and assembled Akatsuki with Tsunade at my side than fight alone against a subset, but that may be irrational."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He's basically explicitly admitted that he is sentimental, attached to his old friend, and would feel comforted by her presence! He's opening up to us so much, and completely unprompted!

I can already see us signing the adoption papers.
 
[X] Action Plan: Get the Bioseal, Already
Words: tbd
  • Team (skippable if QMs prefer)
    • Mari, you've said you're unable to model or predict whether or not Orochimaru is likely to betray us.
    • Kei, we had to have Mio as a concubine because you couldn't model your own social prowess, relative to Mio's. Further, if Mari cannot model Orochimaru, how can we reasonably expect you to?
      • Besides, it's this, or unveil some of our stronger Runes (allude to Stormcaller/Superchiller) to the Akatsuki, Orochimaru, and the world at large. Which presents an existential threat, compared to a mere personal threat. We prefer the latter, rather than the former.
    • Noburi, you're chronically terrified of Orochimaru, to the point where you refused a power-up we'd bought from him. It's reasonable and understandable (we had to help Orochimaru butcher Noda), but this also means your judgement is compromised on the risk/reward ratio.
    • Kagome, we love you and respect you, but what other choice do we have? If we fail, here, the Akatsuki rule the world, and control the afterlife. Can you honestly say they would be kindly stewards of mankind? They, who called Orochimaru "the best of them," and are willing companions to the likes of Hidan?
      • If this bioseal makes our chances of success the smallest bit more likely, how can we refuse? What other option do we have? It's do or die, but worse, because failing means the Akatsuki rule everything and everyone, forever.
    • We cannot and will not ask you to undergo the same procedure, but this is our decision.
  • Go over Orochimaru's runes, get the bioseals, use clones to make runic blanks and RRBs/Force Claws for allied combatants/summons who don't have an equivalent buff.
  • Go over tactics with teammates (goal: create relevant aspect to tag during fight).
 
Last edited:
[X] Disregard, get bioseal.
Kyreneryk said:
Reminder that RRBs require stunts to use (Rocket Jump, Shoryuken) that our allies may not have time to acquire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They can still be used, their benefits are just less. I imagine most of our allies will have some equivalent, but if we're going to use Icarus Runes, then Superleap is still better than nothing.
 
But yeah, if the QMs are trying to signpost "Do Not Do This" (which I find doubtful) then I'd rather they do so, directly.

We've been given more than enough narrative grounding to doubt the NPCs, and interpret their balking as in-character/simulationist... "fence-sitting," for lack of a better word, despite how ungracious of a connotation it may carry.
 
RandomOTP said:
Can't tell if QM signposting "do not do this," or if the team is just scared of Snake Boogeyman, and needs us to tap the "Akatsuki are about to win everything" sign :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
@faflec , care to take this one?

RandomOTP said:
If the QMs are trying to signpost "this is a bad idea" (which I'm not sure that they are), then they should just tell us, directly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not a thing we do. We have a character (Kei) who was created in part to be our mouthpiece, although she has grown considerably beyond that and now her words should be taken as our best model of her instead of as straight messaging. We don't make OOC statements except in the rarest of circumstances, like when I finally couldn't take it anymore and told one person that yes, Orochimaru is a villain and please stop holding him up as a hero and defending everything about him.


Kyreneryk said:
A reminder that most of the team does not know the EM nuke exists. Also, we have no one who can cast EM and would have to use Superchillers, which we haven't researched yet and which only last ten minutes (so we'd need to research a longer-lasting version). Also, I'm fairly confident that an area at most 10 miles wide surrounded by EM nuke storms would rapidly become uninhabitable even if it would nominally be outside the maximum range of the storm. Also, what's even the point of doing this? Why are we trying to create an impassible perimeter around the Rift site?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Note that the 10 minute timeline was part of the spec that the players requested, but it's not what Hazō worked on. He found that restricting the superchiller rune to 1 zone and 10 minutes would make it substantially harder, so he worked on "whatever, just make it cold". Players were given the option to finish that project or transfer half the progress to the "chained" version that would be the original spec.
 
@Noumero Rambling list of thoughts on your plan:
  • I'd really like Hazou to inform Team Uplift about our decision, or at least a scene about it. Coach it being about how Hazou really does need the bioseals, or at least the blood-replacing one, and he cannot concieve of an outcome where we win without his contributions.
    • Like, without Orochimaru's blood-replacing bioseal, Hazou's presence is a big red flag to Akatsuki once they get into range (because Hidan). I'm against Hazou getting bioseals specifically because of the sanity-check we just got and I still can't figure out an alternative to the bioseal that isn't "Hazou does not attend", "Hazou hopes Hidan's blood-tracking range/patrol radius isn't larger than his runes' range", or something along those lines. RER, Ninja Radar, and Hazou's other runes are not likely something Orochimaru has at this time, and unless Orochimaru has been running a con on how close Akatsuki is to winning (and/or how dangerous a resurrected Nagato's goals would be to him), Hazou does not think Orochimaru will overtly betray Hazou until the rift is secure and Akatsuki defeated.
    • Side notes not needed to be added:
      • Orochimaru does not need to place a bioseal on Hazou to give him a fate worse than death. He can just do that if he really wants to.
      • How skilled is Tsunade at removing biosealing artifacts? Orochimaru alluded to decently-skilled medics being able to do so, at least to the chakra-augmenting bioseal under good circumstances.
      • Given the nature of rift-based resurrection, would a viable means of removing Orochimaru's bioseals be to open the rift, then have Hazou kill himself?
  • Concerns on the Orochimaru conversation:
    • I'm not a fan of Hazou not trusting Orochimaru to be honorable "enough". I would frame it something like "Given the value of runecrafting, Hazou can forsee futures where Orochimaru defects in spite of his efforts to be honorable" or something along those lines.
    • I'm partial to Orochimaru getting Tsunade involved moreso than the Snakes; but an alternative would be Orochimaru swearing to Tsunade on the Seventh Path that he doesn't intend to add traps to Hazou's bioseals, or to get Tsunade to poke Naruto so he can reinstate Hazou as a Leaf-nin in good standing.
      • Implicating the EM Nuke deadman's switch...I don't like it, and would prefer it to not be suggested.
    • I'm not a fan of the BATNA, not just the consequence (gamble on Hidan, don't summon Cannai) but also the justification. I'm having a bit of trouble putting it into words, but I don't see Orochimaru as being the sort of individual who Hazou dreamed about way back when. He'll certainly commit atrocities, yes, but not the sort that turns the whole world into his oyster.
    • Ironically, I'm not a fan of the "exchanging additional binding promises" part. My read of Orochimaru is that he gets annoyed at such things and is more likely to work around them than anything else. Is this section really necessary for the current situation?
 
I can't tell if the characters legitimately hold these opinions or if they're just sockpuppetting some stuff.

Can we just not keep kicking the can down the line here? I think we voted to get the damn thing like twice already. If Oro is going to immediately killswitch us for whatever reason, let's just find out in like five chapters instead of having another damn meeting about it.

I get like no information of predictive value from these scenes beyond "Oh they are scared because scary man is scary." It's never clear whether or not this sort of thing is some really bad signposting, the QMs are trying to plausibly deniably sockpuppet some stuff at us but in a way where zero information gets across, or if the characters are being written as flawed people who are bad at updating or who don't understand the stakes at present.

I will skip the mass of deliberation in thread that is about to ensue and just say "Yes hello, ping me if you have a plan that ignores the meeting scene entirely and goes to get the damn bioseals"


[x] Lore Update
[x] Ban Meeting Scenes
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top