TN 130 explosive, received ...maybe... when we diff checked it
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
This would be a very interesting "the NPCs are very biased and entirely fallible" moment, but I feel like it wouldn't pan out that way for meta reasons. Darn shame though.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What @DanZapman said. Kagome's speech is our modeling of him, not us giving OOC advice.
My understanding, which players can correct me on because my brain is cheese is that the Microrift rune creates an untargeted rift. It's the first step in a chain that goes something like:
- (Microrift) Create untargeted rift that might open to a Path or to the Out
--> Create an untargeted rift that opens to a Path
---> Create a rift that opens to a specified Path
I believe we've said already that Hazō does not know that (Human Path -> Human Path) portals are impossible but they also would be something different than rifts, so the Microrift run is not in that tech tree.
Hey, nobody said that *he* opened the rifts!
*sympathy* I hope you feel better soon, and that whatever the frustrating news is gets resolved quickly and smoothly.
Nope. If you vote in a new plan then you get a new XP rate.
Yup.
- Location
- Texas
I have no interest in this. Could we do a remote explosive instead? That one might actually see use.
A remote version? That's the eventual plan. I don't think we're capable of skipping that far in one go.
Not really, the QMs (you) have made it a requirement that we have a Rift to research Rift-related runes. So we need a way of generating Rifts. Since targeting them doesn't seem to be possible, we're just going to YOLO it (or we were).
We don't actually plan to do this chain as it would require opening hundreds(?) of Rifts (and we would probably die). Although it would be a cool way to get to Naraka.
I'm aware of this, I was simply pointing out that what we got was good and I'd like to continue with it.
[X] Action Plan: Flip Flop
Out of an abundance of caution, I request that you rewrite this to make it clear that we're coordinating with Cannai, not just summoning him unilaterally. I suggest something like:
- Attempt to summon Cannai
- Coordinate with him to find a good time, preferably the first DoB rest day of the plan
I'm 90% certain that the QMs wouldn't yank our chain like this, or that at the very least if they did we'd find something sufficiently interesting to be worth our while, even if it wasn't the rift. Also, I'm pretty sure that the interlude about Kagome's past lives is dubcan (dubiously canonical).
Kagome said he knew of multiple rifts. I don't see any reason why we can't move from one to another, splitting our research between them?
It has to be a DoB rest day. But I can do something like this.
More wasted time...
We'd have to figure out the total number of sites and split our time accordingly. So it's considerably less convenient. But yes ultimately doable.
Yeah I mean ultimately I'm willing to waste a little time if it means not alienating Kagome as badly as I expect doing the Microrift Rune could. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I aggressively do not care about his hurt feelings when the fate of the entire world is at stake. He is not reasoning clearly here and we don't have the luxury of indulging him.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While you (seemingly) aren't looking to be convinced otherwise, I think that our continued working relationship with Kagome is pretty important to the fate of the entire world. It would be great if he acted completely rationally at all times, but he doesn't, so we need to manage it. That isn't a luxury, it's about not coming to blows with your labmate while you're trying to finish a research project on a deadline and need their help.
I also think that 'he isn't reasoning clearly here' is, at best, uncharitable. His risk tolerance is different from yours. In some cases this can be the result of faulty reasoning and in others it can be a difference of opinion. We're dealing with a lot of unknowns and I think this is an area where reasonable people will disagree as opposed to one side simply being foolish.
[X] Action Plan: Flip Flop
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Apparently I completely missed this, so I'm now much less worried about Kagome's reaction, and I don't really have a strong reason to oppose the Microrift Rune.
[X] Yes, push ahead with the Microrift rune.
We have WoG that this won't affect our working relationship with him very much, if at all.
But frankly Kagome does not reason clearly about sealing, full prepping every cycle is crazy. We have long had evidence of him not acting rationally about sealing-related things. I think it's reasonable to assume he's not reasoning clearly here.
FYI, "cancel microrift but finish current research" will waste one of our DoB/rune research tracks for several research cycles, as it won't replace the microrift research with something else.
I recommend not voting for it.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
In general, I feel like Kagome has to grow out of this thing where he is comically but dramatically freaking out every time Hazou tries to do some dangerous shit that no one else has ever managed to safely do. It's been a good bit for a while, but its going to get old real fucking fast if he's like this about more stuff we want to do that is going to sound fucking impossible.
We told him the gist of Minato's secret sealing discipline and he looked at that shit like it was witchcraft. I'm pretty sure Minato pulled it off just fine, but Kagome didn't want anything to do with it. Cross that bridge when we come to it I guess lol. I am willing to bet that Minato still leaves both Hazou and Kagome behind as far as base Sealing number goes. Minato clearly knows what he's doing. Time will tell whether that's convincing enough.
I kind of expect any attempt at interacting with Biosealing to be way worse (or at least as bad) on this metric too.
And I'm not saying he's wrong in this particular instance either. I am saying he's biased, and that its probably telling that he was entirely dismissive of any sort of statistical argument with "but its nonzero!" and that he had approximately zero confidence in anything that Hazou was saying after we told him what we wanted to do.
I dunno, maybe us picking up more sealing disciplines or something will be a teachable moment there.
The safety maximizing stuff seems like a very strange attitude to have when paired with the whole "woe is me my student has surpassed me" stuff. I don't see how someone could avoid peaking in a ninja deathworld with funky magic bullshit if they weren't willing to ride the lightning now and then when push comes to shove. Sometimes you gotta just bet on yourself and roll the dice lol. If "we gotta stop the schizo cultist guys from resurrecting their leader and ruling the world" isn't one of those times, then dang, I dunno if anything other than immediate physical danger is going to move the needle there.
Could just be that I'm due for a full reread, but sometimes these characters act in ways that are a bit puzzling to me. Not out of character really, but puzzling nonetheless.
We told him the gist of Minato's secret sealing discipline and he looked at that shit like it was witchcraft. I'm pretty sure Minato pulled it off just fine, but Kagome didn't want anything to do with it. Cross that bridge when we come to it I guess lol. I am willing to bet that Minato still leaves both Hazou and Kagome behind as far as base Sealing number goes. Minato clearly knows what he's doing. Time will tell whether that's convincing enough.
I kind of expect any attempt at interacting with Biosealing to be way worse (or at least as bad) on this metric too.
And I'm not saying he's wrong in this particular instance either. I am saying he's biased, and that its probably telling that he was entirely dismissive of any sort of statistical argument with "but its nonzero!" and that he had approximately zero confidence in anything that Hazou was saying after we told him what we wanted to do.
I dunno, maybe us picking up more sealing disciplines or something will be a teachable moment there.
The safety maximizing stuff seems like a very strange attitude to have when paired with the whole "woe is me my student has surpassed me" stuff. I don't see how someone could avoid peaking in a ninja deathworld with funky magic bullshit if they weren't willing to ride the lightning now and then when push comes to shove. Sometimes you gotta just bet on yourself and roll the dice lol. If "we gotta stop the schizo cultist guys from resurrecting their leader and ruling the world" isn't one of those times, then dang, I dunno if anything other than immediate physical danger is going to move the needle there.
Could just be that I'm due for a full reread, but sometimes these characters act in ways that are a bit puzzling to me. Not out of character really, but puzzling nonetheless.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hazō: I'm going to create a rift to who knows where.
Kagome: Are you insane? That could end the world!
Hazō: Probably won't, and I need it for the research to save the world from Akatsuki.
Kagome: Okay, I hate it but that makes sense. Still, instead of opening rifts to who knows where, how about we use an existing rift that we know doesn't lead somewhere that causes the universe to explode? I know of three.
Players: God, Kagome is so irrational.
- Location
- Washington, USA
[X] No, go to one of Kagome's rift-sites.
Compared to the time and risk of developing and using a random-rift-generating rune, I don't think it's a waste.
Minato was 24 or some shit when he died and had a jonin combat statline, I'm pretty sure he wasn't exceptional because of raw bignumber. He seems to have inherited some sort of sauce from Tobirama that unlocked being able to do shit like FTG at all.
Spector29
It Only Gets Worse From Here
Unbelievable how much our fortunes have changed by just one S-Ranker deciding to be helpful. If we die on a Dog clan mission, I'll consider it a life well lived (with some notable miscalculations).
[X] No, go to one of Kagome's rift-sites.
- Location
- France
Ninja Radar and Explosiver are both fantastic runes. Ninja Radar should massively help us stay safe and set up ambushes (it's extreme-range detection capability!) and Explosiver is the prelude to Ranged Explosiver. We know that the ranged Explosive Rune is good, but if we can raise the TN by +30 then it becomes massively more threatening to jonin and essies. It also gets a lot easier to use, because we will no longer need to stack a dozen of them to stand a chance of injuring a relevant enemy.
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish Ninja Radar, use other DoB track for Explosiver, research Banshee Lovers on non-DoB track)
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish Ninja Radar, use other DoB track for Explosiver, research Banshee Lovers on non-DoB track)
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish Ninja Radar, use other DoB track for Explosiver, research Banshee Lovers on non-DoB track)
I think we have higher priorities than Microrift anyway, so I'm fine with this. However, I do not want to spend a week travelling to a rift site which might or might not actually exist, and which we might or might not be able to find, right after we got to the Southern Isles. I'm fine with making one of those sites our next destination, but not with leaving immediately. So:
[X] Yes, push ahead with the Microrift rune.
Actually, another thing I was thinking of:
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else.
@Sir Stompy , a plan fragment for your attention:
[] Plan Fragment: Skysliders
I was going to add something about researching Lightening Seals to help the Dogs move our sledges around now that they can't use storage seals (assuming lightening seals wouldn't also be a spacetime effect), or a seal that pushes against the ground to make them float or something; but I think lightening seals are probably jounin, based on Jiraiya's comment about leadening seals - not to mention we'd need it to last more like a month than an hour - and I have no idea how hard the second one is but there's a good chance it would need a DotB track. So that probably doesn't work. Still, if Kagome makes skysliders, maybe he can make skysliders that Dogs can use; that would go a long way towards replacing the function of skytowers.
I think we have higher priorities than Microrift anyway, so I'm fine with this. However, I do not want to spend a week travelling to a rift site which might or might not actually exist, and which we might or might not be able to find, right after we got to the Southern Isles. I'm fine with making one of those sites our next destination, but not with leaving immediately. So:
[X] Yes, push ahead with the Microrift rune.
Actually, another thing I was thinking of:
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else.
@Sir Stompy , a plan fragment for your attention:
[] Plan Fragment: Skysliders
- Kagome:
- You're right - using Microrift instead of an existing rift is risky.
- However, the travel time to get there is painful.
- We have design notes for Skysliders; could you try and build them?
- E.g. using Arachnid silk.
I was going to add something about researching Lightening Seals to help the Dogs move our sledges around now that they can't use storage seals (assuming lightening seals wouldn't also be a spacetime effect), or a seal that pushes against the ground to make them float or something; but I think lightening seals are probably jounin, based on Jiraiya's comment about leadening seals - not to mention we'd need it to last more like a month than an hour - and I have no idea how hard the second one is but there's a good chance it would need a DotB track. So that probably doesn't work. Still, if Kagome makes skysliders, maybe he can make skysliders that Dogs can use; that would go a long way towards replacing the function of skytowers.