What does Hazou think?
What @DanZapman said. Kagome's speech is our modeling of him, not us giving OOC advice.
Just want to quickly affirm this -- we very much are not trying to signpost anything OOC. This isn't a "Oh balls, the GM just asked me 'are you sure?' before I did the risky thing" moment. This is purely Kagome reacting to Hazou's proposal in-character, with the breakpoint being granted because Kagome is offering up a new option that the players didn't know about when they were making their plan.
 
Interesting choice by the Pangolins. Do they not believe in the law of identity? Do they not care?
"I cannot comment on its feasibility, but if I arranged to fill the valley with noxious gasses, they would have no choice but to leave."
"Hazō, can you design me a ninjutsu that releases noxious gasses that don't go away for about ten years and are definitely mortal to pangolins?"
"No."
"SAGE DAMN IT."
"Thank you, Empress," Hazou said, the Iron Nerve letting him keep his expression deferential despite the sting of betrayal he felt.
That was foreseeable I think? The Akatsuki were only good to her and maybe saved the Path entirely.
still, Hazou could tell that Cannai was tired. The Alpha moved slightly slower, and he had a deep weariness in his voice.
Cannai baby nooooo
"This is what it means to be member of the Dog Clan, Hazou. The Dog Clan fights with you. I will fight with you."
🥹
We should replace all these seals though. Give the Dog Clan something to replace the utility of the sled and food scrolls.

[X] No, go to one of Kagome's rift-sites.
 
It would be kinda nice if more folks discussed some for a hot minute before tossing out a bunch of votes for these options lol
True, but I've got a fever and an upper respiratory infection that's fighting the antibiotics like Mike Tyson on fantasy coke.

For what it's worth, I don't think Kagome's being too reactionary/paranoid, here. Hazou-pilot's professional opinion, with Sealing ~60, is that Hazou isn't actually sure that Microrift research can be done safely.

I was against it back when it was first proposed, during the straw poll, and had voted to wait for the bladehorror Rift in Iron. If Kagome knows about other Rifts that aren't liable to be crawling either Hunter Nin, I'm down.

Whether or not those Rifts are here, in the MfD-verse? Eh, Hazou-pilot wouldn't know about that, so it's a bit too close to metagaming for my tastes.
 
MS paint tools are hardly the best so this is fairly rough but we have a canonical map of the ENs with a scale given, linked from the OP of the quest. This is roughly where we could go within 5 days of travel. A bunch of shit is offscreen because it either went off the border of the map or the middle of the ocean or both. The options are northernmost Lightning, back to that mountain range in Wind (unlikely), or some random spot in Earth.
If it helps the calculations, I plotted the travel from Chapter 684 as taking you to the small island southwest of Jiro Island.

Nor am I willing to tell Kagome, "we don't care about your opinion of the risk, we're doing it anyways because we don't want to spend a week travelling."
If you go ahead with the Microrift rune, I would probably have Hazou argue not "I don't want to spend a week traveling" but instead "the risk to our family is lower from a full-protocol Microrift than from going close to a bunch of major villages trying to murder us."

But frankly Kagome does not reason clearly about sealing, full prepping every cycle is crazy. We have long had evidence of him not acting rationally about sealing-related things.
I think it's not as bad as all that. In the case of Trivial seals -- sure, he probably should skip prep. But imagine rationalist!Kagome thinking about it decision theoretically: "I want to never die to a sealing failure, so that means I should never cause a sealing failure. There will probably come a day when I'm tired (read: no FP), a day when I'm unlucky (read: roll some fat -12s), and I misjudge the difficulty of a seal (read: pull a golden legendary TN49 genin seal, or the equivalent TN69 chuunin seal). What policy can I pick now that, if I apply it instead of trying to reason through every case explicitly, which might fail if I'm tired/mistaken/etc, would keep me from ever hitting a sealing failure?"

You might say that he's leaving value on the table by not cutting prep a reasonable amount to make his projects go faster, but that's just a difference in utility functions, not necessarily him being irrational.
 
Assuming Sasori is researching the rift-opener seals based on the notes/approach that Itach stole from Hazou, does Hazo think Sasori will need regular access to a rift scar to test his prototypes?
Yes. He might not need access to a rift for literally every research infusion, but in general regular rift access of some sort will be required.

Would a rune/bioseal that eliminated sleep affect base XP rate?
It would be unlikely to affect talent. I'd probably prefer to keep it as bonus training blocks for things like ACE/notes, but could potentially be convinced to have it be a source of untyped bonus daily XP like the brevity bonus.
 
"Hazō, can you design me a ninjutsu that releases noxious gasses that don't go away for about ten years and are definitely mortal to pangolins?"
"No."
"SAGE DAMN IT."
KEI: Allow me to ask the question again, but assume for argument's sake that I did not previously express firm objections to superweapons that can easily scale to threaten civilisation.

HAZŌ: Do you need battlefield size or city size, and can I finish my current project first?
 
You might say that he's leaving value on the table by not cutting prep a reasonable amount to make his projects go faster, but that's just a difference in utility functions, not necessarily him being irrational

I think this is much more reasonable when you aren't on a tight timeline to open the Rift. Like I understand why you would make this your SOP when you're researching seals alone in the woods and I actually agree with it. If there is no time pressure you can take as much time as you want.

The fact that he seems impossible to convince that this is not the best strategy to use in this situation is why I think he isn't reasoning clearly. Recall when we had to hide that we weren't using full prep on the MS chain? He refuses to adapt his principles in changing situations, instead forever enshrined them as "this is the way it must be done".

He will begrudgingly accept that Hazou does this, but it calls his judgment about decisions like this into question.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

What does Hazou think the best way to solve the targeting problem is?

That is - if you have access to an open Rift, what does he think the best way of targeting that dimension again is?

I see a couple options.

1) Open the rift and use some sort of Rift-scanning rune to duplicate it later.
2) Put a target beacon on the other side, either seal or rune (seal is easier to push through a Rift, rune might require Hazou to go through the Rift to infuse) and use a rune from this Path to find and open a Rift between the beacon.
3) something else?
 
I think this is much more reasonable when you aren't on a tight timeline to open the Rift. Like I understand why you would make this your SOP when you're researching seals alone in the woods and I actually agree with it. If there is no time pressure you can take as much time as you want.

The fact that he seems impossible to convince that this is not the best strategy to use in this situation is why I think he isn't reasoning clearly. Recall when we had to hide that we weren't using full prep on the MS chain? He refuses to adapt his principles in changing situations, instead forever enshrined them as "this is the way it must be done".

He will begrudgingly accept that Hazou does this, but it calls his judgment about decisions like this into question.
I remember when we first had that talk, from the other side, with Jiradad.
If memory serves, his points were mostly "I can, because I have A-rank jutsu and the skills to deploy them to destroy just about anything bad, a whole village to double-check my work, ANBU ready to help, and a Boss Summon at the ready."
Still, our minor rift-type sealing failure (meeting OliWhail) had him on edge and checking for many things.
My point is we have only one of those, and we're going to try to make a stargate to wherever. Kagome's precautions are, I believe, reasonable due to his experience and our situation.
And tbh, I think he is thinking clearly but with different goals - he's very aware that he's optimising for safety, not for results. He wanted to go down in history not as the best sealmaster/teacher, but as the safest. Losing no students, always adapting for best safety, was always his goal.
 
I want to help Cannai and the Dog Clan more.

Would providing Cannai with time acceleration runes help? I imagine giving him 30% more time to strategize would grant him a significant advantage. The only issue is he'd have to be in range of the rune to benefit and it isn't clear how much he can do remotely. I suppose he could simply leave the rune to pass messages and return since he's crazy fast.

Time acceleration runes might also be able to significantly advantage the Dog Clan by allowing their strongest or most critical dogs to rest and recover 30% faster than their opposition. A TR130 is like a 30% chakra regen boost + 30% faster healing combined.

I can't think of anything else we can supply Cannai with at this time sadly. He's been good to us and we should try to repay that.
 
My point is we have only one of those, and we're going to try to make a stargate to wherever. Kagome's precautions are, I believe, reasonable due to his experience and our situation.
One of what? Rifts? I'm lost
And tbh, I think he is thinking clearly but with different goals - he's very aware that he's optimising for safety, not for results. He wanted to go down in history not as the best sealmaster/teacher, but as the safest. Losing no students, always adapting for best safety, was always his goal
I don't even see why his goals should be a consideration when the literal fate of the world is at stake. We do this purely on cost-benefit.

Losing a student from Akatsuki killing them is hardly different from losing them due to a sealing failure. Yet the part where he's not reasoning clearly is because he doesn't seem to recognize that.

Even so, he already lost a student. His strategy doesn't even work.
 
Even so, he already lost a student. His strategy doesn't even work.
Jinno was characterized as getting too confident and not using prep days. Kagome saw Kazushi beginning to do the same thing, that's why Kagome asked Hazou to allow Kazushi to help him out on some sealing: Kagome had hoped Hazou would model good safety practices for Kazushi.
 
One of what? Rifts? I'm lost
Of Jiradad's advantages that justified lowering safety precautions
Even so, he already lost a student. His strategy doesn't even work.
That's hardly the fault of Kagome's own precautions, the student failed a twist on his own.
I don't even see why his goals should be a consideration when the literal fate of the world is at stake. We do this purely on cost-benefit.
Opening rifts to wherever is also fate-of-the-world touchy, as far as anyone's aware.
Losing a student from Akatsuki killing them is hardly different from losing them due to a sealing failure. Yet the part where he's not reasoning clearly is because he doesn't seem to recognize that.
He's spent his life optimising his thought and planning patterns for trying to risk neither. If we game over to a sealing failure now it's also a bad ending, btw. And Akatsuki wins, provided the sealing failure isn't world-wrecking. His risk-reward analysis, with the knowledge he has and the quirks of his personality, is that the risk is too high for the reward to matter.
 
In fairness that student was full of himself and ignored Kagome's advice which is from his point of view what Hazou is doing 🗿
Alright you can't expect me to remember facts when they contradict my argument.
Kagome had hoped Hazou would model good safety practices for Kazushi
Lmao.
Opening rifts to wherever is also fate-of-the-world touchy, as far as anyone's aware.
Except, no we know it's not, see the discussion on anthropics in the chapter.
 
Except, no we know it's not, see the discussion on anthropics in the chapter
I think... The rifts might have a higher chance of ending the world than we think. MfD seemingly is a multiversal setting. There's a sort of survivorship bias. We live in one of the timelines in which the world has not been eaten by a sealing failure. Kagome seemingly lived through... What, six? More? Timelines in which sealing failures *did* eat the world.

In other words, we should maybe not look at the statistics and say "nah, sealing failures can't end the world because it would have ended already" and instead think "sealing failures have already ended many worlds, this one could be next".
 
I think... The rifts might have a higher chance of ending the world than we think. MfD seemingly is a multiversal setting. There's a sort of survivorship bias. We live in one of the timelines in which the world has not been eaten by a sealing failure. Kagome seemingly lived through... What, six? More? Timelines in which sealing failures *did* eat the world.

In other words, we should maybe not look at the statistics and say "nah, sealing failures can't end the world because it would have ended already" and instead think "sealing failures have already ended many worlds, this one could be next".
We have no idea what happened to Kagome, I don't think it makes any sort of sense to base any decision whatsoever on that. Based on what we've seen by basic extrapolation and arithmetic. Thousands of rifts have been opened in this EN and it survived.
 
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish current research)
[X] No, go to one of Kagome's rift-sites. (The next time we switch locations)
May I suggest you vote for

[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish Ninja Radar, use other DoB track for Explosiver, research Banshee Lovers on non-DoB track)

The intent here is to go research at Kagome's sites after we burn this location. The "finish current research" version won't last long enough to burn this location.
 
[X] Cancel Microrift rune, but do something else. (Finish Ninja Radar, use other DoB track for Explosiver, research Banshee Lovers on non-DoB track)
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Does Hazou think a Superchiller rune shielded by a minimum-size Force Dome would withstand the force of the hypertornado?

Does he think his design would affect air outside of the Force Dome?

Separately, will a Force Dome burrow into the ground at all? Like if you put the central rune into a depression 10m below ground level, will it slice 10m down?
 
If it helps the calculations, I plotted the travel from Chapter 684 as taking you to the small island southwest of Jiro Island.
It does, thank you very much. Updated, similarly rough because of Paint circle tool sucking:



The red line should be considered a broader band than that since there's room for 5 days to be a bit less than 1,000 miles and because this isn't as precise as I would have liked. Honey, the northern islands off of Water, Haran Bay, middle to north Hot Springs, maybe southernmost Lightning, most of Rice, northern Fire, southern Iron, Waterfall, and Earth, northern Grass, most of Fang, and northwestern Wind all seem possible as far as distance goes. I leave it to the rest of the audience to winnow out which bits actually seem likely given Kagome and his backstory, or how dangerous being in any of these places for months on end studying a rift would be given which nations are after us.
 
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