He literally did ask for it, maybe my next plan will be written in pseudocode
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
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... Why not just simply type "Hazo does a prep on various runic difficulties, until he finds the maximum strength rune that is within his capabilities"
Do we literally need to micromanage the numbers here?
Do we literally need to micromanage the numbers here?
We were asked to micromanage the difficulties for TR 125
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
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- Canada
Our hazopilot kinda sucks. When upgrade?
If a regular civilian 15 year old could follow those instructions, Hazo being for some reason incapable feels pretty bad.
I think this has more to do with the QMs not wanting to make decisions for the players than Hazoupilot being incapable of making decisions.
@eaglejarl
Since you know what binary search is and we could also link to a Wikipedia article for the uninitiated, would putting "Hazo does binary search" in the plan have actually worked or would it return "Hazo has no idea what binary search is; plan item skipped"?
Since you know what binary search is and we could also link to a Wikipedia article for the uninitiated, would putting "Hazo does binary search" in the plan have actually worked or would it return "Hazo has no idea what binary search is; plan item skipped"?
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
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- Canada
It amounts to the same thing either way, doesn't it? Players want to find the strongest Time dilation they can reasonably research. Hazo in-character wants to find the same. QMs have to determine the difficulty of the research, and so ultimately decide what the strongest rune he can currently handle is.
The entire dilemma is about how to best describe the process. Either we can be lame and wordy and describe it step by 5-incrimental step, or we can describe what we and Hazo want and let him just do it. The final result is the same, unless one method is notably less efficient in which case everybody involved including the QMs should want the more efficient method to be used because wasting unnecessary time on useless prep days helps nobody. Not the impatient players, not the lurking readers waiting for something to happen, or the QMs who have to waste an update on research not even happening because describing what we want to happen accurately takes too many damn words in an action plan that explicitly limits the words we want to use.
I could understand a case where players don't actually know the solution to their problem and want Hazopilot to figure it out for them, this isn't that. We want a stronger rune. We are using prep days to figure out the difficulty related to the strength of the rune. It's not a puzzle to be solved, it's a time-wasting chore. We shouldn't have to describe how to best fold the laundry if we want Hazo to do the laundry, he should already know. In this analogy, Hazo is arguably the best laundry folder in the village.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Really, the main problem here is that we haven't been planning ahead well enough.
We could have introduced Hazou to binary search ages ago, by having him get randomly fascinated by the idea and walking him through the necessary insights. If we had done that, it would have been child's play to reference it here: just say "use binary search" and Hazou would understand us.
And why stop there? Binary search is just one of the abstract mathematical constructs we can teach him! Can we really truly say that Hazou will never run into a situation where one of them would be useful for him to know? The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second best time is today!
[Χ] Spend 200 words of the next plan teaching Hazou how to do Merge Sort
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Chakra diffusion is a natural phenomenon, no less than the degradation of light or sound at great distance is.
And while true: I don't know how long it would take Hazou to work out light-or-sound-based detection seals/runes so I'm gonna just go with this in-universe-known-good method.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
I mean, jokes aside, are we sure that Hazou doesn't know how binary search works? Sealing seems to involve some fairly advanced math, we've frequently likened it to code injection, and I'd expect that designing seals involves writing some algorithms for chakra to follow.
So I'd actually be reasonably sure that if we put in "do binary search for the most powerful TR you can do, starting from TR150", he'd get it.
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I disagree, but not because he should or shouldn't know it. There have just been a few cases that have shown that Hazopilot is weirdly uneducated. For instance, him not knowing what a lunar eclipse is even though they happen on a >yearly basis and sometimes turn the entire moon bright red.
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Which is baffling. Trigonometry has been known for most of recorded human history. Certainly it was in a reasonably mature state across the world by the given equivalent time period of the EN (~1200A.D. iirc).
Wikipedia said:
Wikipedia said:
Wikipedia said:
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Early Earth civilizations didn't have chakra beasts and frequent ninja conflicts making their world a constant murderblender. I do think that the simulation having less advanced philosophy is justifiable given that the village system only came along to turn the murderblender down a notch within living* memory. Weird, yes, but not that baffling.
*by our standards
- Location
- U.S.
Mainly I was thinking "how exactly does Leaf have complex architecture, even multistory buildings, without this stuff?"
But on further research it seems that its not as critical as I was thinking.
Well, you put rocks on top of other rocks. It far predates this sort of math.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We've also climbed to the tops of mountains, like in Snow.
- Location
- United States
Even Everest barely tops 29,000 ft
- Location
- Europe
Do you mean this? They seemed to contribute a proper series of books and texts to learn and study.
Chapter 661, Part 1: Hazō in Murderland
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It was with some unease that Hazō approached Kei when he saw her apparently napping on a grassy knoll. On the Human Path, this would have been suicidal: pick the wrong knoll (blue flowers were a particular danger sign), and you would drift off quickly and peacefully, and there were no survivors to speak of what happened next, nor even bones to be found. They were almost as bad as gazebos, and Hazō had been horrified to learn that those actually existed on the mainland, as opposed to being a metaphor for landlubbers getting killed by their own laziness.
Come to think of it, Kei, with her alphabetical knowledge of means of suicide, probably knew exactly how to identify a suitable grassy knoll, in which case it made more sense for her to be at ease on an obviously safe one.
She turned at his approach, eyes opening, and Hazō felt a touch of relief. It was one thing to relax in foreign territory with no one keeping watch, another completely to ignore a potentially hostile shinobi's approach. From the sister forged in the same fires as him, it would have been cause to suspect lupchanzen.
"Hazō," she acknowledged. "Apologies. I realise it must be past check-in time, but I desperately needed respite after my illl-judged attempt to engage my pangolin subordinates in philosophical discussion. It was as I imagine speaking to Hyūga Hiashi might have been, save that he allegedly possessed enough intellectual sophistication to argue compellingly for his beliefs, assuming sufficient respect for his interlocutor."
"No worries," Hazō said. "I got caught up in organising my notes myself. Apparently, leaving a notebook's worth of transcription to Hazō JustKillMeNow, who didn't have it already stored in the Iron Nerve, wasn't my brightest idea ever.
"Still, Kei, a grassy knoll? Even on the Seventh Path, I'm impressed you were able to let your guard down enough."
Kei gazed up at the distant firmament.
"Here, it is safe to imagine," she said softly. "Just think of it, Hazō. A few minutes of indolent peace, then your eyes close slowly, and there is no more pressure. No more obligations. No more risk of suffering or even death for those around you should you once misstep."
Even without seeing his face, she must have somehow sensed Hazō's horrified stare.
"No need for that, Hazō," she said testily. "Suicidal ideation is harmless without intent, and I would hardly murder Snowflake for the sake of my own selfishness."
"And also you value your life too much," Hazō prompted.
"And also I value my life too much," Kei agreed. "To fail to change the subject, how goes the mission? What news from Aisu Bay Murderland?"
"I wish you wouldn't keep calling it that," Hazō muttered.
"Kagome and I outvoted you," Kei said, "if perhaps for different reasons."
"And that's another thing," Hazō grumbled. "Since when were you two swimming in the same current?"
"There would have been no hope for you in any scenario," Kei said in lieu of answering the question. "Noburi possesses a marked tendency to side with me when he is not counterbalancing my social ineptitude, and would have chosen the option most likely to annoy you even were I absent. Mari would have found it hilarious. Yuno would have sided with either her husband or the Pangolin Summoner. In fact, why are you the clan head again?"
"Because nobody else wants the workload."
"Fair."
"To answer your question," Hazō said, "all is well. The time control rune research is moving forward even faster than the last time you asked, though I'm torn between a bunch of ideas for the naming scheme–no suggestions, please, Lady Aisu Bay Murderland."
"So this is the taste of instant karma."
"Sure is," Hazō agreed. "I really thought the Kittensphere and the Snow Globe had taught you better. Anyway, I do have something I wanted to consult you about."
Kei sat up at the more serious tone.
"I can replicate the effect of Elemental Mastery with a rune," Hazō said without preamble. "I don't mean hypothetically. I mean, I can see the research pathway, and it's within my reach. I haven't done the groundwork yet, but my guess would be a matter of weeks rather than months."
It was Kei's turn for the horrified stare, which did not bode well. Hazō hurried on.
"I know it's dangerous. I've been hesitating. But still, looking at my other research, it's not like there aren't plenty of other ways to destroy a city, and runes aren't going to proliferate the way anybody with Fire Element affinity could learn Elemental Mastery.
"More importantly, think about what it would mean. The summoners could reverse-summon if they were fast enough, and Orochimaru's dossier suggests that Konan might make it. But Sasori? Deidara? Hidan? Half of Akatsuki gone. Nothing but dust.
"But you're my sanity checker. Frankly, all things considered, there's nobody whose feedback matters more." Admittedly, that was out of the tiny handful of people who even knew about Elemental Mastery. "What do you think?"
"Hazō," Kei said after a few seconds. "Hazō. You are labouring under a fundamental, cataclysmic misperception. Elemental Mastery is not an anti-Akatsuki weapon. It is a city-killer that possesses an incidental application in destroying Akatsuki, just as the Great Fireball Technique possesses an incidental application in pest control. That you have other routes to city-killers is not something to boast about–it merely means that most of the same objections must apply to them as well.
"Before anything else, did you learn nothing from the original incident? You are delivering city-killers to the Hokage. To be sure, the Eighth is of a different mould to the Seventh, and is a man to whom I am prepared to feel a certain amount of actual loyalty, but he is human, just as the Seventh was human. You wish him to live his entire life with the temptation of ultimate destructive power, of eliminating any given threat to all in his care, of creating a permanent Pax Konoha with but a single great sacrifice? Or do you wish to keep your death runes under sole control, defying the Hokage's direct orders when they come, facing off against Leaf in a war where the fate of the world is at stake, all our loved ones are on the other side, and your only weapons are weapons of mass destruction?
"The other side of the boatman's coin is the greater future. In a world of city-killers, humanity's survival is founded exclusively on the fact that you alone possess them, and can trust yourself not to abuse them. Is that enough? In the first place, Hazō, I… I love and trust you more than most people in this world, and yet I do not consider you a moral titan beyond temptation. You have erred in the past, as we all have. You will err many times more. In fact, you are in a much worse position than the Hokage, for so much more rests on your shoulders, and always will. He is the guardian of Leaf. He is coming to understand his responsibility for protecting AMITY, for protecting world peace from those who would devour it, but it is not yet instinctive to him that one's responsibility is truly proportional to one's power.
"You will save the world. Not merely from war, but from ignorance, hunger, illness, the thousand hatreds that tear humanity apart on levels below geopolitics–in short, from itself, and you will not cease your labour until it is done. Responsibility crushes one, Hazō. It warps one. It causes one to make choices an earlier, more innocent self could not imagine. I would not trust myself with ultimate power, and you must not either.
"The original runecrafters, we believe, were the Sage's companions, in other words the founders of the so-called Thinker Clans. Hazō, do you believe, in all sincerity, that between us we could not have preserved the power that forged the Great Seal and must have been capable of a thousand more miracles besides? That power was surrendered, by shinobi of legendary collective intellect, because they understood down to the marrow of their bones the concepts I am now flailing to express. It was erased from this world, and the instant Pain somehow rediscovered it, he nearly triggered an apocalypse. He, like you, was an idealist determined to save the world, and his ritual might well have done so, at a price he deemed acceptable.
"But suppose you are a moral titan. Let us speak of non-proliferation. To begin with, runes are not exclusive to you. Anything you create will be an inspiration to Orochimaru once seen in action. I am uncertain whether he would ever create a city-killer on his own initiative–his heart's desire, as I understand it, is to be left alone to solve the mysteries of the world, yet the second he displays such power, the world will beat a path to his door. On the other hand, knowing that such weapons are in use may well motivate him to ensure he is not left behind. Indeed, they are much more threatening to him than some targeted weapon optimised for use against Akatsuki and their specific powers.
"Regardless, Orochimaru's death is on the long-term agenda. A city-killer will not save him from us once we are finally prepared. Beyond that happy day, do you intend to take runecrafting to your urn? Does Kagome know it? Will he before your death? Will you instruct no others in this art you intend to reshape the world, forsaking any possibility of mass production? Will you leave it to an heir, or allow it to go extinct so that no Gōketsu of future generations may use it?
"Or perhaps you will successfully protect the secret of this particular city-killer's function, maintaining OPSEC until you die along with everyone else who knows. Can you ensure that it will only be used once, against Akatsuki? That in the course of that encounter, no clues will be left behind, including any observation by Akatsuki survivors? The Elemental Mastery weapon's basic concept is counter-intuitive, but it is not complicated once clues suggest a direction of experimentation.
"No city-killers exist in this world. The concept of a shinobi single-handedly annihilating a wide area, beyond the power of other shinobi to counter or evade, is laughable. It is a dream. Even the greatest S-rankers cannot assault a hidden village alone, for they have finite chakra, and a coordinated assault by jōnin willing to sacrifice themselves will eventually end them. Nor can a Zoo Rush be accomplished without an entire village's worth of chakra, and I do not doubt that research on hard counters is already underway across the Elemental Nations. The weaknesses of summoners and summons are common knowledge.
"You would make city-killers possible. We know from Elemental Mastery that it can be done with ninjutsu. Doubtless paper seals hold even more potential. Once the potential is made real, once every shinobi knows that they are there to be found, the world will change. Perhaps it will end.
"I suppose I have said enough. You requested a sanity check in good faith, and thus I have endeavoured not to rant, but this is an issue close to my heart and my self-control is finite. I will even refrain from belabouring my final point regarding the difference in reaction from other villages between learning that Leaf is capable of exterminating S-rankers and learning that Leaf is capable of exterminating them."
"So what you're saying," Hazō said eventually, "is that you don't think I should pursue this direction of research."
"I believe it would be unwise."
"Then I won't," Hazō said simply. "It's not as if I don't have plenty of other ideas."
Kei looked taken aback.
"You mean it? You would exercise common sense in a matter of weapons research on my word alone?"
"It's what I keep you around for, Kei," Hazō said wryly. "That and you're a good Hagoromo-mocking partner. Mari's creative and knows curses from all over the world, but she doesn't have your fire."
A small smile tugged at the corner of Kei's mouth.
"Hazō, I am for the moment rationing my dispensation of hugs so as to preserve my limited emotional endurance while I am unable to recharge from Tenten. That caveat notwithstanding, please consider yourself hugged. Affectionately, even."
-o-
Voting is closed.
- Location
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The only way this could get funnier is if she actually headshot us once she sanity-checks our latest stupid idea
