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Paths of Civilization

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Hangwind said:
The oldest culture in the world is either Egypt or Israel. Worry about them.
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Egypt is within 'rumour mill' range of ours, and Hathatyn - southern Metal Miners - are probably Israel.

And China is the oldest 'continuous', I think.

Plus, closer to home, we have not!Persians exploding in size...although without Persian level of Heroic Everything Leader and government (their government is closer to ancient Sumer - lots of squabbling city-states with walls) they are less dangerous.
And, well, nomads.
 
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Expansion
[X] [Secondary] Build Chariots

To make sure we dont get a split vote or anything
 
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Expansion
[X] [Secondary] Build Chariots
 
Tally ho!
Adhoc vote count started by pblur on May 17, 2017 at 4:37 PM, finished with 36237 posts and 89 votes.
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andrewopk said:
What? Main carrion eaters and Secondary focus swap have the same vote count, but they are different tasks.
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Versus Forests. 42 vs (25+17)=42

Forests would definitely be nice, but can be automatically done via Expansion. Carrion Eaters are the perfect elite for us since they reduce our losses, which is the explicit weakness of elites. They counter their own downside.
They've also never been expanded and I really don't want to risk losing them, especially since their few numbers probably took a significant hit these past couple of turns.
 
I would be totally for Carrions if we could ensure Stallions get them too.
Like, Stallions are on the verge of death and the nomadic hero is still out there. We have to help them, lest they can really die on this very turn - they're almost dead already and nomads do not really diminish in numbers, there are always more nomads out there.
Expand Forests in their land is a decent compromise between having to inefficiently send people there and econ - it is Econ action which will give them wood to build chariots, will remind them that we are helping, will, in the long term, give them a source of charcoal for smelting and honey and generally remind them that they are People too.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
I would be totally for Carrions if we could ensure Stallions get them too.
Like, Stallions are on the verge of death and the nomadic hero is still out there. We have to help them, lest they can really die on this very turn - they're almost dead already and nomads do not really diminish in numbers, there are always more nomads out there.
Expand Forests in their land is a decent compromise between having to inefficiently send people there and econ - it is Econ action which will give them wood to build chariots, will remind them that we are helping, will, in the long term, give them a source of charcoal for smelting and honey and generally remind them that they are People too.
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Forests are great for helping long-term, but do little in the short-term. They don't get the econ boost until next turn, which means it's not available to them until next turn's mid-turn. That's a long ways off.

They're at Econ 3 Martial 1. They'll almost certainly go [Main] Build Chariots, (probably take 2x Expand Economy as well). That'd put them at Martial 5- not exactly the best, but enough that they'll last until the mid-turn when we can reinforce them again.
 
notgreat said:
Forests are great for helping long-term, but do little in the short-term. They don't get the econ boost until next turn, which means it's not available to them until next turn's mid-turn. That's a long ways off.

They're at Econ 3 Martial 1. They'll almost certainly go [Main] Build Chariots, (probably take 2x Expand Economy as well). That'd put them at Martial 5- not exactly the best, but enough that they'll last until the mid-turn when we can reinforce them again.
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They are resisting nomadic hero.
And, well, looking at historical prototypes like Chenghiz....they are not guaranteed to survive until midturn. Plus, 1 Econ is way, way too low. It is good enough for us, but what is 1 Econ for us is probably 2-3 Econ for Stallions. So, Econ 1 probably means them literally starving, at least some of them.

And that's if nomads don't come back to burn some more farms - and they probably will, in which case Economy of Stallions may well run into negatives. While we could have prevented it by foresting them or supporting subordinate in their direction.
 
ctulhuslp said:
1 Econ is way, way too low.
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Well, good thing they'll be at 3 econ after the 2x Expand Economy then.

ctulhuslp said:
we could have prevented it by foresting them
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I still don't see how forests would help if the nomads do a heroic all-in attack strike. Forests take ~1 turn to mature to the point of usefulness. All that would happen would be our saplings would be trampled and destroyed by the nomad swarm. You're talking about an attack before this mid-turn, which would mean that the forests aren't even halfway done growing to the point of economic usefulness.

Support Subordinates would help, but it's such a horribly inefficient action that it's flat out not worth it.

If you really wanted to prevent them from dying with greater certainty, you could stay on the old War Mission plan. That would mean that our soldiers would be up north with the intent of attacking the Nomads whether they're attacking us or not. Many of us don't want to do that in case the Nomads weren't going to attack us, but it is a valid choice.

However, we've been directly told by AN that the March dying before we get a chance to respond is "unlikely". Not impossible, so if they roll bad and the nomads roll well while also having the hero bonus we're in trouble, but a bunch of saplings wouldn't prevent that anyway.
 
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[x] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs x2
 
notgreat said:
we've been directly told by AN that the March dying before we get a chance to respond is "unlikely". Not impossible, so if they roll bad and the nomads roll well while also having the hero bonus we're in trouble
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... but we also have to take into account having the resources to send; guaranteeing they'll be able to ask us for help doesn't make up for not having enough help to give.
 
Kiba said:
We really need new trails sooner or later.
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You may have missed it, but we got new trails.
Academia Nut said:
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
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This, changed to:
Academia Nut said:
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
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More would be nice, but a priority they're not.
 
Warning: Warning
  • Staff Post
    • McLuvin said:
    Snip.
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    warning This is a fairly obvious attempt to divide an opposing argument up in order to address individual arguments without touching the actual argument, amongst some circles (the rest of the forum, lol) known as "spaghetti posting". I will give you a warning for marginal behaviour and ask you to not repeat this.

    SpeckofStardust said:
    Your willing to have our entire nation die in order to help speed up humanities general progress, that is fanatical though processes.
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    stop This is what scientists call "bad faith debating" and "deliberate misinterpretation of the opposing argument", it is also what the Staff calls "against the rules", which means you get 25 points and I'm going to ask you to not repeat this.
     
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