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Paths of Civilization

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Dieb said:
One thing we need to remember: salt gift. This is a way to turn one of our big strengths after this (high diplo) into art and mysticism, which we will both probably need.
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You know what you're a genius. That might be an infusion of what we need. It could certainly buy off the Metal Workers.

Plan to get Iron Up and Running v2:

Assume we are in a Mysticism Crisis. (This is basically worse case scenario planning)

Crisis turn one (Hero takes it if he is still alive)
Main Proclaim Glory
Secondary RoO
Secondary War Mission Nomads

Crisis turn mid turn 1 (He's dead now)
There will be a choice here.
If the Stab Boosting option is tanking Metal say no.
If the Stab Boosting option is not tanking Metal say yes.

Crisis turn 2
Provinces will be spending Econ to fort up. -3 at least, if they do not generate it instead.
Main New Settlement Bleeding Cliffs
Secondary Grand Sac.
Secondary Expand Econ

Crisis turn mid turn 2
There will be another choice here.
Take the time booster option if there is one.
Else hold and take the continue forward.
Do not pick anything about dropping Iron.

Crisis turn 3 (Our one crisis went went for 4 turns from 3)
Main Expand Holy Sites. Or Main Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs if we need to.
Secondary Expand Econ.
Secondary Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs. If we need to main it do Holy sites here.

How should we change this to fit that in?
 
maximillian said:
And on the pedestal these words appear:

'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:

Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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You know, that poem was about self-aggrandizement. the discovery of iron smelting is far from that- it has benefits for ALL humanity, and it IS lasting, unlike Ozy's statues.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
DocMatoi said:
You know, that poem was about self-aggrandizement. the discovery of iron smelting is far from that- it has benefits for ALL humanity, and it IS lasting, unlike Ozy's statues.
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Yeah.

Even if we are subsumed, our knowledge will pass on to Mankind. That is worth a hell of a lot.

If we die totally after making such progress... well there are a lot of remnants. The advance would eventually be re-discovered in our ruins by curious people.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 16, 2017 at 12:31 AM, finished with 34684 posts and 59 votes.
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drake_azathoth said:
...I believe we ARE considering the narrative?

I'll be honest, you seem quite well educated, but since your first posts on this quests you've gone from fairly insightful and well-considered commentary to gleefully playing devil's advocate for positions you don't really believe in to just faffing about with nonsense half the time. This recent vote has you seemingly more serious, but I'm not sure when you're legitimately stating your position and when you're just being deliberately trollish anymore.

I mean, is the same thing as your gleeful support of Our Lady Hereditary Nobility?
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I won't deny that I enjoy playing the devil's advocate every now and then, as for beliefs, my own personal beliefs are a mishmash of several philosophies, I was a socialist/ethno nationalist in my youth, got into libertarianism in college, and am leaning alot on theology lately so, yeah not a very clear cut or consistent evolution.
I'll grant ye the only consistent thing in my posts was disdain for communism. As for faffing around, try as I might, I am a hillbilly at heart I have to fuck around every now and then.

As for trolling, not my cup of tea, a snide remark or a bit of sarcasm sure, but I don't have the diligence for proper trolling.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
random_npc said:
it's going to end our golden age, but holy shit getting iron while everyone else is still on copper is huge. There are still legendary items of great power made of star metal, seeing an army on the march using it en mass would be a thing of terror and dread with no equal.
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That would be fun. Iron simple(i.e. sheets of iron strapped by leather ties) breastplates are relatively simple...and functionally impenetrable to weapons where everyone is concerned. It'd take much stronger warriors to make armor standard though.

And we can use swords and waraxes early.
SpeckofStardust said:
You do know the myth that deal with flying to close to the sun right?
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Yeah, needed better engineering and prototyping. Good idea, but didn't factor in environmental stress.
Academia Nut said:
This is like the equivalent of someone stealing one of the True Nails and a piece of the Dome of the Rock to melt it down for uranium when people are suffering from radiation poisoning, and the pope is in the room at the time he tells you of his discovery.

The only way to hide this is to kill him now. Taking in the knowledge has the shamans screaming of heresy to the heavens.
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The really funny part is he's just doing it to metal that was used for experiments to begin with. Heh.

But yeah, people are pissed if not for the king being a Hero and the Golden Age, they'd not even listen
Carrnage said:
Even if we gain this knowledge how long do you reckon itll last before others manage to copy it?
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A long, long time...provided they don't capture an iron mine. Fortifications are extra important in Redhill now.
Abby Normal said:
Ugh, oligarchic switch cause of Quality (and maybe an associated crit fail) :(

And ughhh hard choice... @Academia Nut what exactly would we get just from this choice? we'd know how to smelt iron, presumably one of hte really primitive types*, and we'd needto spend an action to get a mine up, but would we know how to make it into tools without spending more actions?

*like...doesn't one of the earlier ways of smelting iron produce not-very-useful iron?
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Relatively. Early pig iron was inferior to bronze, but you're thinking of bog iron, which was obtained without a refractory furnace.

Incidentally, we should be able to make salt glazed pottery with the same furnace type.
Academia Nut said:
You would need to study the smelting process further, find a source of ore (already done), settle around the source of ore, and then establish a mine/quarry to be able to put iron into widespread use.

Also, Art overflows into Diplomacy, and you gain +1 Art and Mysticism for major infrastructure projects, which Double Main Walls currently are.
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...DEFENSE POLICY STAYS!
We can use the walls to pay for the Proclaim Glory!


notgreat said:
We got the diplomacy from overflow: double main walls counts as a major engineering project for the canal, giving us +1 Mysticism +1 Art. Mysticism overflowed to Art, Art overflowed to Diplomacy. (Source)
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Wrote that before catching up to thread.
 
BungieONI said:
Yeah.

Even if we are subsumed, our knowledge will pass on to Mankind. That is worth a hell of a lot.

If we die totally after making such progress... well there are a lot of remnants. The advance would eventually be re-discovered in our ruins by curious people.
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... I am unwilling to argue against fanatics needless to say I don't want our people to die and want to do what is best for them.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
[X] Execute this maniac (+1 Prestige)
Iron's insane, but with a plague around? And forget about the Stability, losing the 2 Legitimacy is catastrophic. Without that Art, can we even afford to Proclaim Glory?
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Thats the fun part. We have so much art we can do it.

And Defense Policy Double Main walls spawn Art and Mysticism too. Costs 2 Econ, produces walls, produces 1 Art 1 Mysticism.

Crazy good deal huh?
Dieb said:
One thing we need to remember: salt gift. This is a way to turn one of our big strengths after this (high diplo) into art and mysticism, which we will both probably need.
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Nice catch. Think a Salt Gift might help appease the Metalworkers as well. And stabilize the Highland Kingdom.

We could probably use it to stir shit in the Thunder Horse too, but that'd take better circumstances.

So Restore Order + Proclaim Glory next turn, Salt Gift the turn after?
I wonder what Diplomacy overflows into. We're hitting that point from salt
 
FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SCREW IT!!!!!!!!

[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge(-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the MetalWorkers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)

That bloody superstition trait!

The tax reforms nearly broke us, but we ned, this, we need some sort of huge advantage that will give us the ability to fight the expy Mongols, who should have fallen apart by now and been too busy infighting to bother us.

We do this, and then spam stuff to hold our society together. Maybe this will force the evolution of a society trait that progress and new things comes from testing boundaries.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
... I am unwilling to argue against fanatics needless to say I don't want our people to die and want to do what is best for them.
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Then let me point out that the Thunder Horse have brass, and the Metal Workers along with some faction of the Thunder Horse likely is about to obtain bronze while we can barely use copper. Fact of the matter is, we're in a piss poor position grand strategy wise, so we really need a breakthrough tech to even break even. Yes it gambles our civilization, but the alternative is forced subjugation by the bronze powers. Risk lose everything now versus wait to lose everything. For me, it's not even a choice.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
... I am unwilling to argue against fanatics needless to say I don't want our people to die and want to do what is best for them.
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Ok that is straight up insulting. I am no fanatic and take extreme offense to that implication. I have made reasoned argument for my choice, please do not disrespect me by claiming that I am some brainless moron (what I think fanatics are).

I care for the Ymaryn to. I do not think this will kill them. However, I am willing to take this risk in order to make them grow. This will make them safe when it finishes.
 
BungieONI said:
Ok that is straight up insulting. I am no fanatic and take extreme offense to that implication. I have made reasoned argument for my choice, please do not disrespect me by claiming that I am some brainless moron (what I think fanatics are).

I care for the Ymaryn to. I do not think this will kill them. However, I am willing to take this risk in order to make them grow. This will make them safe when it finishes.
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I think he means the priests of the people mate.
And to be fair thier not brainless (strange as it may seem) , just selectively sighted.
 
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veekie said:
Thats the fun part. We have so much art we can do it.

And Defense Policy Double Main walls spawn Art and Mysticism too. Costs 2 Econ, produces walls, produces 1 Art 1 Mysticism.

Crazy good deal huh?


Nice catch. Think a Salt Gift might help appease the Metalworkers as well. And stabilize the Highland Kingdom.

We could probably use it to stir shit in the Thunder Horse too, but that'd take better circumstances.

So Restore Order + Proclaim Glory next turn, Salt Gift the turn after?
I wonder what Diplomacy overflows into. We're hitting that point from salt
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The hero is going to take our next turn probably and do something like this:

Main Proclaim Glory
Sec RoO
Sec War Mission Nomads

The turn after I think we should do
Main New Settlement Bleeding Cliffs (I don't think Redhills actually counts right now)
Sec Salt Gift Metal Workers
Sec Expand Econ
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
Bad faith debating is a breach of Rule 4.
BungieONI said:
Ok that is straight up insulting. I am no fanatic and take extreme offense to that implication. I have made reasoned argument for my choice, please do not disrespect me by claiming that I am some brainless moron (what I think fanatics are).
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Your willing to have our entire nation die in order to help speed up humanities general progress, that is fanatical though processes.
 
kilopi505 said:
Wait, what?

Ok, where does it say the Thunder Horse have brass?
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Academia Nut said:
While not unique, the large loads of dye and precious metal had certainly made for a vigorous trade, netting rare cloths, beautiful artwork, and a few daggers of 'Eastern copper', a strange variation on copper that was used by a few of the Eastern Thunder Horse that held an edge much better than regular copper, and was a bit more golden in colour than copper. While still not terribly useful for making weapons, the knives made from the material were good enough to make a useful replacement for stone or wood variants, and the Xohyssiri occasionally picked them up off the battlefield.
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It was deduced that this was brass
 
maximillian said:
I think he means the priests of the people mate.
And to be fair thier not brainless (strange as it may seem) , just selectively sighted.
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The Priests of the People are not brainless. Neither do I consider them fanatics though.

A fanatic to me is someone who takes a belief and then replaces their ability to think, at all, with that belief. They turn themselves willfully (outside of indoctrination) into drones who can only scream "My belief is the Truth! F- You and all you stand for it is wrong and nothing you say will convince me! Llalalalalalala I'm not listening."

I am going to stop this right now and back away from this steaming pile of ClF3 before I get angry.


SpeckofStardust said:
Your willing to have our entire nation die in order to help speed up humanities general progress, that is fanatical though processes.
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No. I am not going to keep doing this with you, I have made my point and if you do not want to acknowledge that I am not a fanatic, fine. Anyone who wants to see that I am not fanatical, and have an actual brain in my skull please go read my previous posts. I'm walking away now before I start screaming.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
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