DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Thats ALREADY happening, by word of AN
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
It sets a precedent.
Look at all the atrocities that happend in real life in the name of progress and furthering the boundaries of science in the 19_20th centuries . There's a reason ethics committees became a thing.
Yeah, so he's still around to do the first couple actions of the turn, same as Twythulmyn. My guess is that he'll choose the actions and probably boost the Restore Order action with his skill, then die before the next action.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
He didn't even do anything that horrid, the only thing really bad is the diplo incident the other things are expendable in the name of true progress. Who gives a shit about a few "spiritual" objects? (I meant in this thread, I know the priests do your trying to convince US not them anyways)
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good point.
If it is stolen that is not actually a massive problem. You can take that and rejigger it like this.
Plan to get Iron Up and Running v2:
Assume we are in a Mysticism Crisis.
Crisis turn one (Hero takes it if he is still alive)
Main Proclaim Glory
Secondary RoO
Secondary War Mission Nomads
Crisis turn mid turn 1 (He's dead now)
There will be a choice here.
If the Stab Boosting option is tanking Metal say no.
If the Stab Boosting option is not tanking Metal say yes.
Crisis turn 2
Provinces will be spending Econ to fort up. -3 at least, if they do not generate it instead.
Main New Settlement Bleeding Cliffs
Secondary Grand Sac.
Secondary Expand Econ
Crisis turn mid turn 2
There will be another choice here.
Take the time booster option if there is one.
Else hold and take the continue forward.
Do not pick anything about dropping Iron.
Crisis turn 3 (Our one crisis went went for 4 turns from 3)
Main Expand Holy Sites. Or Main Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs if we need to.
Secondary Expand Econ.
Secondary Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs. If we need to main it do Holy sites here.
And done.
That assumption was made in answer to SpeckofStardust saying this will push us into a Crisis. As you can see it shapes the plan but does not rule it. Honestly the plan would not change much if there was no crisis. The Mid turns would be devoted to making sure we do not have external problems, and resource generation instead.
- Location
- Huezil
We have somenthing called GREATER GOOD as a social characteristic so yeah, for our people, doing some anti-ethical things, like experimenting on people is reasonable if it pays on the end, as we have seen during the cholera thing, where people voluntereed to die.
- Location
- Philippines
You are looking at the numbers without considering the narrative this guy performed sacralage and people think he was the cause of the plague like it or not this will lead to the shamans being pissed
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Oh you'd be sprised at what people can do if you trample on deeply held beliefs. And the fact we are setting a precedent is what's most concerning,. Albeit keep in mind that in the people's society that man is legible for death sentence. And considering the people exile all but the most vile of criminals, that should tell you what they think of him.
Diplomacy 9 [+1]->12 [+1]
We gained 2 Diplomacy for making the Thunder Speakers our bitch in war mission(refund from the diplomatic mission, clearly). One from salt.
Economy 9->5
Building chariots and two walls isn't cheap. But adequate for now.
Martial 10->12
Gained 3 Martial from Chariots, taking us past the cap, then lost one to war mission.
Nasty things those.
Stability 3 (emboldened)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Nice seeing you guys. It was good knowing you, but now it's time to die for the greater good.
Art 14 (max, overflowing)
Mysticism 14 (max, overflowing)
Time to jam these guys into the transmutation chamber!
Prestige 11 (+1 Subordinates)
You too Prestige-kun. You're going to be burned for iron.
Oh good. If our Martial weren't capped that'd make the carrion eaters really valuable now.
I really like how the bolded part suggests we interpret Elitism. That helps slow down one of the drawbacks of elitist thinking...at least, in framing our leaders as Serving the People.
Needs to be refined of course, but this is the stuff of "Pure Chariot Archer Force" or "Suddenly Ninjas"
Odds are that our artisans and farmers will also start to stratify internally by who is 'best'
Leadership had transitioned from Semi-hereditary specialist to mostly hereditary elites for much the same reason.
Interesting that now Clerks are considered an elite social caste now. They're too vital for our civilization to be otherwise.
Semi-hereditary specialist would be our regular infantry and archers.
The Stallion Tribes took the brunt of that hit, so hopefully the Nomads will fuck off.
Damn, those are some horrible war mission rolls. We need to maintain the Defense policy then, I think Stonepen isn't fully walled, and some of the watchtowers are wrecked.
Nomads are evolving resistance to watchtowers as well, but without the towers theres also no real defense.
Chariot archers. We have them as an institution now. Kind of weird when our capital is in forest, but they're ungodly nasty on the steppes. This is the power of running Quality while on high population density, you have a large number of elites protecting a small area.
Just wait though, once they have rideable horses THAT stunt is going to be a problem we can't deal with. Bloody nomad horse archers. They're going to claim we stole it from them too.
Jurisdiction dispute?
Sounds like whatever crisis they're trying to use the Law to deal with is running into similar problems to ours because they've absorbed enough to spawn a Periphery State.
Thunder Speakers: "Fuck you guys, we'll get you next time!"
Not sure what the fever is. Theres too many fevers to identify them without more. Especially child killing fevers.
But we have it under control.
Symphony: "This looks chaotic."
Observance: "This does not sound likely to lead to anything good"
*Exits stage Anon Farmer*
And mmm, he's appealing lack of cow control. It's a minor thing, but a simple fence should take care of the cows presumably wandering into an orchard and trampling the saplings. Not to fence the cow in, since we circulate them, but in this case some portable/temporary fencing might be useful to protect saplings until they are large enough to be unfenched.
Needs metal tools to be economical though.
Also Rainbow Trail has evolved to Rainbow Bridge. I guess after we got copper we finally just bridged the whole river there?
Wonder what kind of bridge. Plank bridges would be difficult to build to such sizes. Rope bridges don't handle high humidity well. Stone bridges would require substantial commitment from masons, sailors, clerks and shamans...well I suppose Art HAS been maxed for a while...
We have IRON. Meteoric iron is still better because it's actually nickel-steel, but we have IRON.
We have a whole settlement built on iron ore!
Also noting that we'd actually advance much faster in metallurgy this way. Bronze cannot be forged, only cast, so it's potential was very limited.
Iron could be forged, so technique matters a lot. PERFECTION matters here.
But not on a day I'm on mobile.
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
This is the prize we hoped for, but dared not plan for to get. ABSOLUTELY worth it.
This is also the sort of thing that can evolve Observance.
We gained 2 Diplomacy for making the Thunder Speakers our bitch in war mission(refund from the diplomatic mission, clearly). One from salt.
Economy 9->5
Building chariots and two walls isn't cheap. But adequate for now.
Martial 10->12
Gained 3 Martial from Chariots, taking us past the cap, then lost one to war mission.
Nasty things those.
Stability 3 (emboldened)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Nice seeing you guys. It was good knowing you, but now it's time to die for the greater good.
Art 14 (max, overflowing)
Mysticism 14 (max, overflowing)
Time to jam these guys into the transmutation chamber!
Prestige 11 (+1 Subordinates)
You too Prestige-kun. You're going to be burned for iron.
"I want to be the very best, like no one ever was." - Except from ancient Ymaryn marching song.
Oh good. If our Martial weren't capped that'd make the carrion eaters really valuable now.
I really like how the bolded part suggests we interpret Elitism. That helps slow down one of the drawbacks of elitist thinking...at least, in framing our leaders as Serving the People.
Needs to be refined of course, but this is the stuff of "Pure Chariot Archer Force" or "Suddenly Ninjas"
And due to the trait, government has transitioned to give the provinces more power again. Only the very best are accepted as chiefs, so we largely lock out the common folk.
Odds are that our artisans and farmers will also start to stratify internally by who is 'best'
Administrators(aka clerks) have transitioned to primarily(aka de facto) hereditary elites because the only way to be good enough was to start learning your numbers, indexes and records from an early age. Otherwise you'd be a subpar clerk and that's just not acceptable.
Leadership had transitioned from Semi-hereditary specialist to mostly hereditary elites for much the same reason.
Interesting that now Clerks are considered an elite social caste now. They're too vital for our civilization to be otherwise.
And now we have Hereditary elite warriors as well(the chariot archers presumably, because you can't train many of those without starting from a toddler)
Semi-hereditary specialist would be our regular infantry and archers.
Damned Thunder Speakers.
The Stallion Tribes took the brunt of that hit, so hopefully the Nomads will fuck off.
Damn, those are some horrible war mission rolls. We need to maintain the Defense policy then, I think Stonepen isn't fully walled, and some of the watchtowers are wrecked.
Nomads are evolving resistance to watchtowers as well, but without the towers theres also no real defense.
Chariot archers. We have them as an institution now. Kind of weird when our capital is in forest, but they're ungodly nasty on the steppes. This is the power of running Quality while on high population density, you have a large number of elites protecting a small area.
Just wait though, once they have rideable horses THAT stunt is going to be a problem we can't deal with. Bloody nomad horse archers. They're going to claim we stole it from them too.
Highlander facing a Stability crisis.
Jurisdiction dispute?
Sounds like whatever crisis they're trying to use the Law to deal with is running into similar problems to ours because they've absorbed enough to spawn a Periphery State.
Xohyssiri: "Fuck it, it's the third time we got our butts kicked. Lets just bunker down and get Hard and Stronk."
Thunder Speakers: "Fuck you guys, we'll get you next time!"
Oh god, no, these guys are going to become an explosive power block soon. Remember back when we unleashed them onto the lowlands? We said they'd be like an invasive species...and they are.
Crappy rolls all around, but our passive defense measures are covering things.
Not sure what the fever is. Theres too many fevers to identify them without more. Especially child killing fevers.
But we have it under control.
Humility: "Maybe this shit is above my paygrade"
Symphony: "This looks chaotic."
Observance: "This does not sound likely to lead to anything good"
*Exits stage Anon Farmer*
And mmm, he's appealing lack of cow control. It's a minor thing, but a simple fence should take care of the cows presumably wandering into an orchard and trampling the saplings. Not to fence the cow in, since we circulate them, but in this case some portable/temporary fencing might be useful to protect saplings until they are large enough to be unfenched.
Needs metal tools to be economical though.
...wow, the Spirit Chief was so pissed off he brawled this kook. What did he do? Wear his grandfather's skull for a hat?
This guy has a serious problem with social skills and tact. I guess he got taken by the shamans for being a super nerd.
Also Rainbow Trail has evolved to Rainbow Bridge. I guess after we got copper we finally just bridged the whole river there?
Wonder what kind of bridge. Plank bridges would be difficult to build to such sizes. Rope bridges don't handle high humidity well. Stone bridges would require substantial commitment from masons, sailors, clerks and shamans...well I suppose Art HAS been maxed for a while...
Not a single regret about royal audience
Holy shit.
We have IRON. Meteoric iron is still better because it's actually nickel-steel, but we have IRON.
We have a whole settlement built on iron ore!
We have Refractory Ceramics. This, basically, is adding Alumina or Silica to the clay, though you also need much higher temperatures to make them.
All gwygo will break loose. Let it rampage. Gwygo up everything.
Also noting that we'd actually advance much faster in metallurgy this way. Bronze cannot be forged, only cast, so it's potential was very limited.
Iron could be forged, so technique matters a lot. PERFECTION matters here.
One of these days I'll go back over everything and track our Wall situation.
But not on a day I'm on mobile.
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
This is the prize we hoped for, but dared not plan for to get. ABSOLUTELY worth it.
This is also the sort of thing that can evolve Observance.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Eh I give up with ya, I don't need to convince you of anything as the vast majority agree with me and the others, We already know the risk spouting them over and over again is meaningless
Rereading the update, is anyone else mildly annoyed at how the star metal pieces apparently turned into sacred relics not to be touched rather than items which were explicitly designated for further study? Stupid priests wanting to look at the pretty rocks rather than study them more for their mysteries after failing to get anything other than "they're hard"...
We got the diplomacy from overflow: double main walls counts as a major engineering project for the canal, giving us +1 Mysticism +1 Art. Mysticism overflowed to Art, Art overflowed to Diplomacy. (Source)
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
You folks are thinking in pure stats, consider the narrative.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmmmm...
*Academia Nut sprays silver cake frosting on his teeth*
*Academia Nut sprays silver cake frosting on his teeth*
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's probably meaning we will have a good chance for Crisis. Luckily I have a plan to deal with that.???
I don't get it
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What are you planning you absolute madman?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ey veeks this is my current plan to get us through this. I am assuming a Mysticism Crisis, because I half expect it and to attempt to appease SpeckofStardust.
Can you make any suggestions to improve it? I am also assuming that we will have to settle Bleeding Cliffs because of this quote from AN:
Plan to get Iron Up and Running v2:
Assume we are in a Mysticism Crisis.
Crisis turn one (Hero takes it if he is still alive)
Main Proclaim Glory
Secondary RoO
Secondary War Mission Nomads
Crisis turn mid turn 1 (He's dead now)
There will be a choice here.
If the Stab Boosting option is tanking Metal say no.
If the Stab Boosting option is not tanking Metal say yes.
Crisis turn 2
Provinces will be spending Econ to fort up. -3 at least, if they do not generate it instead.
Main New Settlement Bleeding Cliffs
Secondary Grand Sac.
Secondary Expand Econ
Crisis turn mid turn 2
There will be another choice here.
Take the time booster option if there is one.
Else hold and take the continue forward.
Do not pick anything about dropping Iron.
Crisis turn 3 (Our one crisis went went for 4 turns from 3)
Main Expand Holy Sites. Or Main Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs if we need to.
Secondary Expand Econ.
Secondary Iron Mine Bleeding Cliffs. If we need to main it do Holy sites here.
And done.
*looks at the Mad Max video*
Hmm this should be fun. *Straps on Goggles*
"More Blood Bag!"
- Location
- From the moon
Not only do we see the risks and acknowledge them but we have also weighed them and found the risks wanting. The reward is to great to deny and the effects of denial would cripple us into stagnation so it as an option has been discarded. And so the wheel turns ever on progress shall not be stopped for it see's it's opposition wanting.
Court Case 584, In the 25th Year of our King, Yehlmyn. Title: Starmetal Knowledge. Description: A man rushed in.....Let it be known that this man will be protected at all cost, so that he can spread the knowledge of how to smelt starmetals.
Archaeologist: "What the hell? Did I just read....the origin of the Iron age?"
"Sir...the timeline had changed again."
Sigh. "What is it this time?"
"They discovered iron, sir."
"What?"
Archaeologist: "What the hell? Did I just read....the origin of the Iron age?"
"Sir...the timeline had changed again."
Sigh. "What is it this time?"
"They discovered iron, sir."
"What?"
- Location
- Philippines
They know very well what the narrative is well most of them anyway they just do not care or think the people can tank it oh well it was fun being unbroken for more than a mellenium I guess.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch