Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
My preferred vote is pretty close to winning, considering how few people voted for it directly.

Carrion eaters vs forest!

Or, as I see it, the panic option that doesn't actually address the panic, or the long-term action that'll help tremendously.

Yes, carrion eaters are the panic option. All tree arguments against forest and for the medics can be summed up as "what if they attack again next turn?"

The medics only help marginally if they do attack next turn. They're not a direct combat unit, and the Stallions need to survive long enough for us to reinforce them regardless of if we build forest or martial.

No, the medics aren't all going to mysteriously die randomly.

No, expansion policy isn't going to result in provinces expanding the March's forests for us. They're not even likely to expand their own.

If we don't do forest now, we're not going to do it next turn. Or the turn after that. We have too many great looking options, and the forest doesn't help immediately, as so many people keep pointing out.

Forest now for tree barrier eventually, or forest never because iron and golden age and lowlands and other matters requiring our attention.
 
Karugus said:
Keep in mind the TS are simply waiting for the right time to have a swing at us, and they're liable to drag the Xoh into that as well. We can't afford to simply monofocus on the threat of nomads when the only reason the nomads gutted the Stallions that badly was because the Thunder Shitheads were warring with us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We need a home army. Can't afford to send everyone to beat the shit out of Thunder NoLongerFriends.
 
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Expansion
[X] [Secondary] Build Chariots
 
notgreat said:
We never got word that our Sacred War value was dying out, it just up and disappeared shortly after we established the Carrion Eaters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
?

Okay?

That's because we didn't value the idea of Sacred War anymore. I fail to see us not valuing Carrion Feeders.

@Academia Nut What is the difference between us doing Chariots and the March doing Chariots?

If we do Survey Land, does it also cover the March's land?
pblur said:
Remember the nomads backed off; we should have till mid turn without the march dying, and can send troops then ifvwe have them.

If we don't raise our martial, we won't have much of a margin if they come back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We already have troops to send, that's Martial 6. What we need to do is ensure that while the March is busy stocking up, we help ensure that it is easier to protect their unwalled towns in the future. Next turn they are doing Chariots, an expensive action if you have to cart wood by boat from a thousand km away. This ensures that future actions are cheaper for them.
 
Kiba said:
We need a home army. Can't afford to send everyone to beat the shit out of Thunder NoLongerFriends.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying the focus on expanding trees up North over giving ourselves a means of counteracting attrition is a bad idea.


Sivantic said:
Next turn they are doing Chariots, an expensive action if you have to cart wood by boat from a thousand km away. This ensures that future actions are cheaper for them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, because the nomads have a lot of trouble fielding masses of chariots. :V
 
Karugus said:
I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying the focus on expanding trees up North over giving ourselves a means of counteracting attrition is a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Helping out the North is a good idea. The Stallion Horse would be our second army until we make a new March.

Whatever the case, I would refuse to commit more than two-third of our force to attack the Thunder NoLongerFriends. The nomad happens because we have no one left to guard our homes.
 
Kiba said:
Helping out the North is a good idea. The Stallion Horse would be our second army until we make a new March.

Whatever the case, I would refuse to commit more than two-third of our force to attack the Thunder NoLongerFriends. The nomad happens because we have no one left to guard our homes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Except the Stallions are rebuilding, considering they're liable to main chariots that will bring them back up to 5 martial. I don't mind helping the Stallions, but we can't simply assume that the nomads are the only threat and devote a main action that only helps address that threat in a few turns.
 
We should build that second March soon as well to give the Stallions some relief and have them focus only in one direction like proper Marches do. They're so messed up right now because they spent the last few turns fighting back to back against two different enemies. Then when they are fortified enough we absorb them then build new Marches further North in our march against the steppes.
 
Last edited:
Karugus said:
Yes, because the nomads have a lot of trouble fielding masses of chariots. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh? Are they bound to only a small patch of land?

They can wander to forests and clear cut what they need as well as raid for materials.
Umi-san said:
@Sivantic @pblur What's your vote again?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Main Forests

The rest I don't remember and not important since the bandwagon has a clear lead there.
Karugus said:
Except the Stallions are rebuilding, considering they're liable to main chariots that will bring them back up to 5 martial. I don't mind helping the Stallions, but we can't simply assume that the nomads are the only threat and devote a main action that only helps address that threat in a few turns.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As oppose to an action that might only help them now and lays nothing down to deter future raids :V
 
Kiba said:
Logistic is the issue here, but whether or not we can fix that with New Trails...I am feeling a bit dubious about. Unless we get roman tier roads.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
hylas240 said:
@Academia Nut i'm guessing we'll need to make alot more boats in order to boost the efficiency?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Academia Nut said:
Yes, in that you need to make enough to learn how to make better boats.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

New trails isn't going to solve this, more boats (and better boat tech) will. Remember that our recently deceased hero built a bunch of boats, filled them with food, and sent them to the stallion tribes in order to save them from starvation.
 
Sivantic said:
Oh? Are they bound to only a small patch of land?

They can wander to forests and clear cut what they need as well as raid for materials.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's funny how you're ignoring that the Stallion Tribes by no means only have a small patch of land, and that the Stallion Tribe have a grove of trees since near their formation.

The whole 'it'll make chariots cheaper guyz!' is entirely unsubstantiated and conjecture.
Sivantic said:
As oppose to an action that might only help them now and lays nothing down to deter future raids :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wow. 'Hey guys, I know you have a war torn shithole province right now, but don't worry- the People are training an entire new batch of medical experts to help you guys in war or peace' is hardly that bad. It's sure as hell better than 'have some trees, in 40 years they might be useful'. :V

It's just fucking laughable that you're insisting that planting a forest is a quicker and more expedient means of helping a war torn civ recover than massively overhauling and expanding our doctors to prevent plague and address injuries there in.
 
Sivantic said:
As oppose to an action that might only help them now and lays nothing down to deter future raids
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They have done their own expand Forrest actions before. They're capable of doing more if needed.
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on May 17, 2017 at 7:34 PM, finished with 36295 posts and 93 votes.
Click to expand...
 
maximillian said:
Invent laquer, develop a social class that patrons the arts, make that class also interested in war. You will get decorated armour, which will boost development in both armour making techniques and metal works in general, as well as new methods of applying decoration to it. Leading to laquerd or gilded equipment.

In short have nobility.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Humility trait. Decorated armor is contraindicated outside of rank/organization designations.

Besides, if you wanted lacquer you'd be looking mainly to whoever interacts with insects here, as they're associated with decay, experimenting with bugs is likely a half-exile/shaman work.

notgreat said:
AFAIK they can't since they don't have any Mysticism to spend on them. I'm not even sure if they have a Mysticism stat at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They do, 4 I believe. 2 from Main Settlements, and either 1-2 from an Expand Holy Site.
Karugus said:
Keep in mind the TS are simply waiting for the right time to have a swing at us, and they're liable to drag the Xoh into that as well. We can't afford to simply monofocus on the threat of nomads when the only reason the nomads gutted the Stallions that badly was because the Thunder Shitheads were warring with us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Looking at the past turn, it could be a lot worse, because we could have been still stuck in with the Thunder Speakers when the Hero spawned.

Pretty much the only way out of that fight was to make it fast and decisive, so even knowing what happened...would still vote the same way.
Karugus said:
Yes, because the nomads have a lot of trouble fielding masses of chariots. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually they do. They have an abundance of horses, but much less wood and metal. However, they get there by basically having no infrastructure, pretty much their whole economy goes straight into war anyways
 
hylas240 said:
New trails isn't going to solve this, more boats (and better boat tech) will. Remember that our recently deceased hero built a bunch of boats, filled them with food, and sent them to the stallion tribes in order to save them from starvation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Need both. Rivers don't go everywhere you need, causing river based settlements to have a long border with Nomads, with expected outcomes. You need land routes to get chariots to places faster than the nomads can ride over grass.

Also boats can't reach Redhill(the name continues to be weird since I know a place by that name)
 
Sivantic said:
Main Forests

The rest I don't remember and not important since the bandwagon has a clear lead there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I will be honest and say I don't think you have to worry.

AN said that the provinces will for sure do the melting iron settlement, but that they probably won't settle the steppes more because there's nothing there.

As a result, it's likely that the expansion policy will do a Main Expand Forest, especially since a) the thread has demonstrated a rational interest in doing so and b) the provinces are unlikely to invest in expanding to the available Blackmouth province spots during a period of time when the people are worried about a renewed incursion.
 
Karugus said:
It's funny how you're ignoring that the Stallion Tribes by no means only have a small patch of land, and that the Stallion Tribe have a grove of trees since near their formation.

The whole 'it'll make chariots cheaper guyz!' is entirely unsubstantiated and conjecture.

Wow. 'Hey guys, I know you have a war torn shithole province right now, but don't worry- the People are training an entire new batch of medical experts to help you guys in war or peace' is hardly that bad. It's sure as hell better than 'have some trees, in 40 years they might be useful'. :V

It's just fucking laughable that you're insisting that planting a forest is a quicker and more expedient means of helping a war torn civ recover than massively overhauling and expanding our doctors to prevent plague and address injuries there in.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree that making lots of combat medics isn't a bad idea, but the forest planting isn't as bad as you're saying. This will give both us and the stallion tribes economy, slow down the nomad raids even more, and is culturally something our civilization is familiar with (and therefore comforting). The planting of dense forest will serve a narrative purpose of claiming our land, calling on the sacred forest spirits to defend us, and appeal to our divine stewards trait.

I've already argued that the forest might not grow up in time for the next raid since we don't know when they'll come, but i've just been ignored basically.

Also, IIRC, the stallion tribes planted a screen line of trees as a secondary. This slows them down a bit, but wouldn't impede their movement like a main forest action would.
 
veekie said:
Need both. Rivers don't go everywhere you need, causing river based settlements to have a long border with Nomads, with expected outcomes. You need land routes to get chariots to places faster than the nomads can ride over grass.

Also boats can't reach Redhill(the name continues to be weird since I know a place by that name)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wasn't this about efficiently transferring econ and martial to the stallion tribes? They have a river system connected to the ocean, so boats are definitely the main way to send food and warriors.
 
hylas240 said:
I agree that making lots of combat medics isn't a bad idea, but the forest planting isn't as bad as you're saying. This will give both us and the stallion tribes economy, slow down the nomad raids even more, and is culturally something our civilization is familiar with (and therefore comforting). The planting of dense forest will serve a narrative purpose of claiming our land, calling on the sacred forest spirits to defend us, and appeal to our divine stewards trait.

I've already argued that the forest might not grow up in time for the next raid since we don't know when they'll come, but i've just been ignored basically.

Also, IIRC, the stallion tribes planted a screen line of trees as a secondary. This slows them down a bit, but wouldn't impede their movement like a main forest action would.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I honestly don't think the forests are a bad idea, they're not my preference, but I won't flip my shit if it wins. My issue is with Sivantic trying to strawman not going forests as utterly failing our vassal.

veekie said:
Actually they do. They have an abundance of horses, but much less wood and metal. However, they get there by basically having no infrastructure, pretty much their whole economy goes straight into war anyways
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fair enough I guess, but the point still stands (especially in light of the fact the ST primarily devotes their econ into military) that the assumption that an Expand Forest now will suddenly make chariots cheaper for them seems a bit out there.
 
hylas240 said:
Wasn't this about efficiently transferring econ and martial to the stallion tribes? They have a river system connected to the ocean, so boats are definitely the main way to send food and warriors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
AN said it wasn't quantity. Our boat tech level simply isn't going to be carrying significant numbers of warriors.

And furthermore, the Stallion Tribe situation could happen anywhere we lack proper trails. As such, hooking the roads up effectively heads off future administrative difficulty/splintering problems and allows us to reinforce locations promptly. Being able to get the men to a port is great, but they still need to disembark and ride to the battle.
 
Karugus said:
I honestly don't think the forests are a bad idea, they're not my preference, but I won't flip my shit if it wins. My issue is with Sivantic trying to strawman not going forests as utterly failing our vassal.


Fair enough I guess, but the point still stands (especially in light of the fact the ST primarily devotes their econ into military) that the assumption that an Expand Forest now will suddenly make chariots cheaper for them seems a bit out there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think they make chariot cheaper. We already have plenty of wood. I think we'll be better served if we finally build that iron mine. Hopefully, nothing happens next turn that requires our attention to turn somewhere else.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top