- Location
- Washington, USA
Could call it the "Merciful Eclipse Rune"
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
I think we can probably jump straight to checking PLTR 125? With our PS where it is now, if we can't do it at 125 with no veterancy the research avenue is probably not worth pursuing. Plus, there's a non-zero chance that the weaker versions are actually harder.
(Also, thank you very much for remembering that this idea existed without my prompting it - it is very much appreciated!)
That said, I think I agree with @Left-Hand Mutant 's point that it seems like a bad idea to skip ahead by a month and a half and dump a huge quantity of research on the QMs when they're already backlogged on research, so for now I think I'm inclined to continue voting for interludes until we get the outstanding research back (as the QMs have said is ok for us to do).
Paper seems excited about it. His reaction was literally "finally some good fucking research"
Making rolls on stuff that has already decided is not high spoon for the QMs it's generating new TNs that's the problem
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I don't understand what is confusing about this, they are very different runes. Are you unaware that Storm Runes call down a large amount of lighting over a huge area? This is very different than creating a dome of invulnerable force, as Force Domes do.
Storm Runes are specifically Deidara countermeasures because lighting can prematurely detonate his constructs and he likely can't dodge something so indiscriminate if he's directly overhead when it's triggered.
Force Domes are simply good area defense runes. Storm Runes are area denial with anti-Deidara flavor.
I can easily imagine a scenario in which we close to ~a few miles away and want to set up our attack of the course of ~hours. We can infuse a PokeSpace in 10 minutes and then be approximately safe from detection. Rather than having to fear being detected by a patrol.
We can also use them to bait in Akatsuki to seemingly harmless areas, then drop them to reveal traps.
I don't think Kagome's Tears is a useful rune
The QMs are backlogged on generating new TNs, making rolls on already generated TNs is a low-spoon activity.
Paper was suggesting (tongue-in-cheek) that the current batch would be done in December, I'm not waiting that long.
We have other useful stuff to research so it's not necessary to work on anti-Konan stuff immediately.
Specifically Naruto is going to be sending all of Leaf's hunter ninja through Iron and Snow during this update, did you forget?
Researching Rift Runes requires access to a Rift. We have WoG on this. Chakrascope will not cut it.
We can of course, research Rift runes and I'm not even opposed, but they are lower priority than offensive runes.
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We are eating it all (mostly) also she's stagnated so I'd rather divert any additional we have to Nobs's research than worry about getting her 0.2 additional XP (literally)
We could have her get one block with this.
However assuming that we get 0.35 (1 block)* 0.6 (Stagnancy) = ~0.2 SC XP
Additionally, she'll quickly get more stagnated. So it's even less over time. I don't think it's worth the effort tbh.
- Location
- USA
This is way too long, and I would reject it in its current state. It needs to be usable for me to use it.
This old one is a great example of being super usable:
Specific things it does:
- If a plan says to "research a seal", 'pilot should prep at least one day first to gauge difficulty.
- Once difficulty has been checked, exactly what procedure to follow is clear.
I don't want it to be "SOP overrides plan, plan specifying overriding SOP overrides SOP, but SOP overrides plan specifying overriding SOP in this one particular situation." The SOP should be just the base that I consult if the plan doesn't specify details, otherwise I follow the plan. Done.
More specific comments:
Can be shorter as "If Hazou thinks he will fail on a -6, buy up to 3 FP or abort."
Mutually exclusive?
This is both good and concise.
Don't need to specify reroll for safety, since 'pilot will already do that.
'Pilot will also already do this.
Ideally this becomes much more concise, like the SOP above.
These caveats don't need to be on both seals and runes, and can also be more concise. For instance, if 'pilot thinks he needs prep to do a rune or seal safely, he'll just abort by default, so you just don't need to specify that.
My attempt at rewriting your SOP into a usable form (Note that this is not endorsement; this could still cause sealing/runic failures):
- Always do a prep day to test difficulty first.
- Rerolls to Hazou's intuition, default is -9 or worse.
- If >3 FP, reroll for extra progress.
- Buy to:
- 1 FP if single-tracking.
- 2 FP if dual-tracking.
- 3 FP if Hazou thinks a project will likely fail on a -6 or worse.
- Abort projects if Hazou thinks it will likely fail on a -3 or worse.
- After the first roll, adjust prep days based on Hazou's intuition.
- Seals:
- Trivial/Genin: Neither prep nor DoB.
- Chuunin: One of full prep or DoB.
- With notes or significant veterancy: 2 days prep, no DoB.
- Jounin: Both full prep and DoB, reroll -3 or worse.
- With notes or significant veterancy: reroll as normal.
- Jiraiya: Don't research.
- With notes or significant veterancy: Both full prep and DoB, reroll -3 or worse.
- Runes:
- Trivial: Neither prep nor DoB.
- Easy: 2 days prep, no DoB.
- Medium: Both full prep and DoB.
- Hard: Don't research, attempt to find easier version.
- With veterancy: Both full prep and DoB, reroll -3 or worse, Invoke.
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- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
What happened to Dragon's Roar? Wouldn't it counter most (all?) S-rankers? Sorry if I missed something.
Edit:
Not likely, but it'd be cool to get
[X] Ami Update
[X] Lore Update
is fine too
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- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
[X] Sealing SOP: Runemaster
[X] Training Plan Hazou: PS Step
[X] Training Plan Hazou: PS Step
Not done yet
- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
Is it still planned? Seems like a worthwhile rune to research.
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Did Hazō leak any aura in the chapters where he learned Akane was missing and started searching for her?
Did Hazō leak any aura in the chapters where he learned Akane was missing and started searching for her?
Nope, since there is a severe backlog of new TNs, I have no plans to do substantial numbers of new ones until the QMs say they have spoons for it
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
IIRC, it was determined that Hazou would need some genjutsu to make a seal that targets Resolve. It might be different with Runes, though.
Personally, I'm partial to the Balefire Rune
- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
I feel like if we can't try new ideas, we may want to vote interludes until the QM spoon drawer is refilled. I don't want to feel like we have to spend IC time (which is very limited) researching ideas that we're not ~90% confident will work.
(To be clear, I'm not complaining about the spoon situation. I'm perfectly fine with more interludes while the QMs recover.)
We have plenty of stuff that we need to research in the meantime. We have a workable kit (with a couple holes)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The only time that would plausibly have happened was when he was talking to Ruka in the mission office, but at that time he wasn't in a mental state to know if he was doing it.
My understanding, and the way that I write it, is more nuanced than this. Calling someone by their first name can indicate close friendship/romantic relations, or it can simply mean that someone is inferior to you and does not require the courtesy of using their surname.
- Location
- United States
I don't suppose the helpful clerk who was there alongside Ruka mentioned anything on the topic….?
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Re: prep days vs research timeskips etc etc.
For me, a lot of it boils down to: I dont think a massive pile of new ideas is going to help us. We already cooked up a bunch and ran difficulty checks on like 50 of them. We thought through how to use these effectively or what we would gain from having them. I think sifting through that stuff, doing what portion of them we can, and iterating on results is going to yield better outcomes.
I think that if you boil this mission down to a more abstract tractable problem it goes like:
FMPOV if we're running into time pressure (assuming we are on the clock less than we believe but moreso than the QMs seem to think for arguments sake), well, we have already done a great deal of "probe search space" and some amount of "isolate some viable candidates" and a smaller amount of "figure 'em out". I am not sure we get much comparative utility here from devoting 60% of our daily Hazou-time to this one beyond rerunning the probes on stuff to get an accurate assessment of where we now stand, while we work on steps 2 and 3. Some of those guys could be working on reading notes or scribing skywalkers for instance (which we need).
I think some of you were not impressed by the chakra pool buff, but I note that the QMs thought it was pretty good, so if they have to factor that (as applied to whatever N Leaf ninja are fighting in any given instance) in to some sort of abstract death-sim, it'll probably be a small but significant overall boost to Team Leaf there. I think that is more worthwhile to try to pursue than having that same clone just run prep days on whatever increasingly cartoonish superweapon designs we cook up. That buff is real and we've interacted with it and we can go back and interact with it again if we need to do some finishing touches. The "Turn Akatsuki Into Ice Cream Sundaes with Sprinkles"-inator (nb: as a comedic abstraction) or any other "I just win the thing" (nb: as a less comedic and more distilled simplification of what the intent is) stuff is not going to happen FMPOV. This is not a strategy so much as it is a desperation move.
I think there's still stuff looking into, but its all variations of stuff we've already hashed out to death, have an idea on how to easily implement, have objective examples of (ex: the element negation arrays -> "No Fire Ninjutsu in this fight, good luck and have fun mate" Rune). I think that's worth checking out. We're probably going to have to run some prep days on rune variants when we get to the "Finetune" step, cuz I doubt that we'll get it all right the first try. That makes sense to me, that's good engineering.
I don't want to keep voting in random shit to difficulty check just based on some shallow Pascal's Mugging based analysis of "Well if it works then we win so even if there's a 1% chance then..." because that is unlikely to lead to good outcomes when you go from any individual instance to 20-30 instances, plural. That is not how expected value and variance terms work. I don't think that style of approach is going to work well compared to tweaking all of the stuff we've already wargamed out mentally or otherwise hashed out a bunch in thread or in Discord. This does not make sense to me to do. [1]
Let's pick some ideas, commit to getting viable and impactful final products that can be reasonably implemented from as big of a subset of them as we can, and stop fucking around.
[1] It is also going to waste a big pile of QM spoons to juggle that and is probably going gum up the works a bit. This seems unwise to me for a variety of reasons, but one pertinent one that we have just run into is that things get busy, we end up voting in chapters or interludes to wait on stuff to catch up, and we look up and suddenly we spent like half a month on a sidequest. I do not think this is a coincidence? I think that (taking things to a comedic extreme) that the memetic "Waiter, I would like a 2 months long filler arc and 100 research results simultaneously please" would be an incredibly jerk move to do. Paring the expectations down here: If you have some writers and QMs who are strapped for time, enjoy modeling stuff out mechanically, but ultimately pride themselves on being able to regularly write updates for things ... if spoons are an issue, and "Both please" is off the table, well do you expect the mechanical paperwork to be put to the side or do you expect the thing they actually like to be put to the side? Can we like spare two seconds of thought to examine it from this perspective, please? Does that sound like a fun time to you?
For me, a lot of it boils down to: I dont think a massive pile of new ideas is going to help us. We already cooked up a bunch and ran difficulty checks on like 50 of them. We thought through how to use these effectively or what we would gain from having them. I think sifting through that stuff, doing what portion of them we can, and iterating on results is going to yield better outcomes.
I think that if you boil this mission down to a more abstract tractable problem it goes like:
- Probe search space
- Isolate 10-20 viable candidates or candidate pathways
- Figure those out
- Finetune
- Implement
FMPOV if we're running into time pressure (assuming we are on the clock less than we believe but moreso than the QMs seem to think for arguments sake), well, we have already done a great deal of "probe search space" and some amount of "isolate some viable candidates" and a smaller amount of "figure 'em out". I am not sure we get much comparative utility here from devoting 60% of our daily Hazou-time to this one beyond rerunning the probes on stuff to get an accurate assessment of where we now stand, while we work on steps 2 and 3. Some of those guys could be working on reading notes or scribing skywalkers for instance (which we need).
I think some of you were not impressed by the chakra pool buff, but I note that the QMs thought it was pretty good, so if they have to factor that (as applied to whatever N Leaf ninja are fighting in any given instance) in to some sort of abstract death-sim, it'll probably be a small but significant overall boost to Team Leaf there. I think that is more worthwhile to try to pursue than having that same clone just run prep days on whatever increasingly cartoonish superweapon designs we cook up. That buff is real and we've interacted with it and we can go back and interact with it again if we need to do some finishing touches. The "Turn Akatsuki Into Ice Cream Sundaes with Sprinkles"-inator (nb: as a comedic abstraction) or any other "I just win the thing" (nb: as a less comedic and more distilled simplification of what the intent is) stuff is not going to happen FMPOV. This is not a strategy so much as it is a desperation move.
I think there's still stuff looking into, but its all variations of stuff we've already hashed out to death, have an idea on how to easily implement, have objective examples of (ex: the element negation arrays -> "No Fire Ninjutsu in this fight, good luck and have fun mate" Rune). I think that's worth checking out. We're probably going to have to run some prep days on rune variants when we get to the "Finetune" step, cuz I doubt that we'll get it all right the first try. That makes sense to me, that's good engineering.
I don't want to keep voting in random shit to difficulty check just based on some shallow Pascal's Mugging based analysis of "Well if it works then we win so even if there's a 1% chance then..." because that is unlikely to lead to good outcomes when you go from any individual instance to 20-30 instances, plural. That is not how expected value and variance terms work. I don't think that style of approach is going to work well compared to tweaking all of the stuff we've already wargamed out mentally or otherwise hashed out a bunch in thread or in Discord. This does not make sense to me to do. [1]
Let's pick some ideas, commit to getting viable and impactful final products that can be reasonably implemented from as big of a subset of them as we can, and stop fucking around.
[1] It is also going to waste a big pile of QM spoons to juggle that and is probably going gum up the works a bit. This seems unwise to me for a variety of reasons, but one pertinent one that we have just run into is that things get busy, we end up voting in chapters or interludes to wait on stuff to catch up, and we look up and suddenly we spent like half a month on a sidequest. I do not think this is a coincidence? I think that (taking things to a comedic extreme) that the memetic "Waiter, I would like a 2 months long filler arc and 100 research results simultaneously please" would be an incredibly jerk move to do. Paring the expectations down here: If you have some writers and QMs who are strapped for time, enjoy modeling stuff out mechanically, but ultimately pride themselves on being able to regularly write updates for things ... if spoons are an issue, and "Both please" is off the table, well do you expect the mechanical paperwork to be put to the side or do you expect the thing they actually like to be put to the side? Can we like spare two seconds of thought to examine it from this perspective, please? Does that sound like a fun time to you?
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Post-work brain is strong, but seconding this
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped
Would it be within the realm of a declare that, along with the other clan documents, jutsu scrolls, etc that Hazou copied or took, he also made a copy of the Skyslider blueprints? From there, Hazou and Kagome and the Arachnids could try to construct more...
(This may literally be the only time in the story they're relevant so I'm tryna get them involved
)
- Location
- United States
Also, to be clear to everyone, that quote of me saying that is from a reaction post where I was 'talking' to our hated Hagoromo enemy. That was not something I said in thread during an actual discussion.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, it would be reasonable to Declare that, among the documents that Mari took from the clan as she left, skyslider designs were among them ("blueprint" probably implies too much technical precision for the science/tech level).
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, Noburi estimates around a week. Maybe 10 days to be extra-safe.
Yes, your chakra-budget will be around 500 CP without the pool, unless you want to start cutting into your teammates' training.
[X] Action Plan: The Short Haul
Word Count: 298
Intended Duration: Subjective: Until we finish Force Domes lol (Solar: However long that is/1.4)
Word Count: 298
Intended Duration: Subjective: Until we finish Force Domes lol (Solar: However long that is/1.4)
- Sanity check all Uplift
- Research - until Yuno heals
- Continue Force Domes, begin Iron Earth Runes
- Off-track ELF Explosives
- Leave the grotto, travel west, loop around Bear and camp on the far side.
- Set up a research base
- Place a TR140 far underground wrapped in ELF explosives. The AoE should be flush with the ground. Build the base there. Earthshape out an area of accelerated time.
- Defend the base with Kagome's trap array/SCSA/SSSA/skyslicers etc.
- Send out Yuno SCs to scout any nearby chakra beasts and/or nests.
- After ~1 solar month, displace a few hundred miles -- keeping Bear between Uplift and the EN
- ES the ground to cover the AoE of accelerated time so that it looks natural
- Place a TR140 far underground wrapped in ELF explosives. The AoE should be flush with the ground. Build the base there. Earthshape out an area of accelerated time.
- Research
- As XP becomes available raise the following:
- PS -> 31
- Mednin 0 -> 10
- Sealing -> 54 (spend 40 Notes XP)
- PS -> 32
- Dual track rune research, follow the Sealing SOP
- If Iron Earth completes before Force Domes, begin Ninja-Radar, if that completes, or is Hard, research Mirror Dragon Runes. If that is Hard, end the update early.
- Follow the chakra budget. Read notes when chakra is unavailable.
- When notes are finished, scribe seals.
- Once the pool effect ends and FOOM blocks decrease, redo all previously difficulty checked but unresearched runes, starting with the Great Seal and any ...well within..., then move to ...maybe..., then ...beyond...
- This is higher priority than notes, but lower than learning mednin or FOOM
- Start studying mednin with Noburi.
- Recheck Chakra Soothing Runes once Hazou learns Mednin
- Difficulty check on PLTR 125
- As XP becomes available raise the following:
- Kagome
- Keep researching Banshee Fuckers
- Declare (-1FP) that we have skyslider designs and ask him to build them once BFs are done.
- Noburi
- Continue to research SC interactions with his bloodline, and teach Hazou mednin
- Teach him SC once he's finished researching it
- Continue to research SC interactions with his bloodline, and teach Hazou mednin
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