- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And what was the improvement to your chakra efficiency like afterwards? Would you say closer to +20% or to +25%?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Liverpool
So leopard and hyena are both probably going to be wiped out and/or subjugated, in a way that temporarily weakens Dog and Pangolin. And we didn't really have time to interfere. And Kei and Hazou are on opposite ends of this issue. And while we didn't like Pangolin overall, it is useful to Kei's personal power.
I honestly don't know that we do anything? If Kei and Hazou stay out of it, that about cancels out? Though it seems like dog utilizes us better, and Kei will have to do some stuff to stay in sufficiently good graces, so it more skews towards Pangolins.
...I doubt they'd go for it, but what if Hyena declared themselves part of Dog? Like a reverse break-off of what leopard did. Hyena still fundamentally loses some of who they are, but less than under Pangolin rule, and Cannai would get a huge power bump from territory expansion? Though I could see other groups being nervous at that level of control of territory.
I honestly don't know that we do anything? If Kei and Hazou stay out of it, that about cancels out? Though it seems like dog utilizes us better, and Kei will have to do some stuff to stay in sufficiently good graces, so it more skews towards Pangolins.
...I doubt they'd go for it, but what if Hyena declared themselves part of Dog? Like a reverse break-off of what leopard did. Hyena still fundamentally loses some of who they are, but less than under Pangolin rule, and Cannai would get a huge power bump from territory expansion? Though I could see other groups being nervous at that level of control of territory.
- Location
- USA
Batching responses into themes...
Relatedly:
I wasn't actually considering "loot" in my original post. I agree that other stuff like interesting beasts, random shit dropped by other dead ninja, intel/lore, and general narrative progress are generally good (for the "loot from other dead ninja", I do wish we'd ever get through the backlog of seals owed to the players so we could design new stuff to just occasionally be on enemies' bodies and the like) .
Relatedly:
CSI seems like a particularly good example here where a trustworthy source who would never lie to you has told you that you can find valuable lore there.
I think apart from the Sannin/Itachi, other S-rankers haven't been implied to have gotten broken-juice from magic dungeons. In fact, the first of @ProperAttorney's quotes is maybe even argument against, i.e. that this route has been tried and proven unsuccessful. Apart from the deadliness of such adventures (which, aside, I don't think was present in this one), there are other reasons why such dungeon delving for literal magic items might have been unsuccessful for imitators, for instance that the loot might have just already been taken.
Is there any amount of chakra-efficiency gain that would actually make this happen? The team isn't chakra constrained in fights (except the chakravore fight which was different for obvious reasons).
It's nitpicking, but I think it's worth avoiding undue catastrophizing. The duration of clearing the caves was 10 days: September 20-29 on the timeline.
Yes, @Shrooms was proposing crazy stuff like 67% reduction in cost. That would allow us to cast/hack jutsu that are otherwise too chakra intensive for regular ninja to cast. We've even heard of them in the context of Kisame, so called "Jinchuuriki Ninjutsu"
Sufficient cost reduction would allow us to no longer timeladder up rune infusions on Prime, which with our increasing PS skill is starting to become an issue.
In addition, if the cave affected SCs, even 25% efficiency gains would be sufficient to allow us to FOOM at Resolve-limited levels.
[1315 - 207 (SC + 5 Clones)]/60 = ~18
Hazou could run 18 blocks of FOOM. That's enough for us to run 15 blocks during prep days.
I'd have been happy with either of the those.
IIRC we spent 5 additional days traveling to the cave, and finding the cave. You could argue that we would have spent ~3 days traveling either way. So fine, 12 days wasted. Still, when people are putting themselves on a 90 day timer, ~15% of that is significant.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Okay, so I've made an alternate buildpath for Noburi, assuming that Hoz. Mantle 29 is enough to fully negate the malus from the ninjutsu. Which is how the ninjutsu reads, at present. There are reasons to expect this to remain the same, and there are also reasons to expect this functionality to be pushed back to level 30.
But this build assumes that we get to keep the Hoz. Mantle 29 strat.
The TL;DR is that we'll need to raise an existing 10-stat into a level 30-slot for pyramid reasons. Which is a little bit more XP than we'd be spending otherwise, but this XP cost isn't that bad --especially if we take advantage of Water Element's halfcost feature. And if we use a combat ninjutsu (such as Surging Seas), then Elemental Apprentice will boost it further.
Okay, so since Tsunade raised Noburi's medical stats into the 60s, this is build plan is going to need some reshuffling.
Okay, since Tsunade took over Noburi's training, he wasn't able to learn the Elemental Apprentice Stunt for Water. We should hop on that, especially since it's only, like, 25xp.
Now, there's been some talk about raising Noburi's Water Dragon Bullet to 40 for the combat power, or raising Physique to 40 to try and unlock Sage Mode. There's also going to be a push to raise Noburi's Resolve to 40 so he can maximally benefit from FOOM... but, whatever wins out, we're going to need to build pyramid supports for that.
That said, we also kinda want to get Hoz Mantle 29 ASAP, to get rid of the debuff from Noburi's main combat buff. So we'll raise SC to 20, but then delay SC 30 until after he raises HM to 29.
This is a neat compromise between Noburi's desire to have FOOM, but also maintain his combat viability.
And now we raise Hoz Mantle to 29, thus getting rid of that nasty debuff. It doesn't take up a 30-slot, so the pyramid won't change, but it's still important to account for the XP.
And now we need another 30-stat to make room for another 40-slot. I vote that we raise one of Noburi's 10-stats to that level. Specifically, Surging Seas is a pretty solid ninjutsu, and the forced movement mechanic is really quite nice. If the roll succeeds, we could push enemies into skyslicers, or other such traps.
And from there, we run into the "which 30-stat should be Noburi's next 40?" Physique would give Noburi another Physical Stress Box (and make progress towards possibly unlocking Sage Mode, if we ever get back in the Toad Sage's good grces), but Water Dragon Bullet at level 40 means that (with Noburi's shiny new Elemental Apprentice Stunt) it can be cast at an effective level 50. Further, it's halfcost under Water Whip 50.
Water Dragon Bullet is a hecking broken ninjutsu, so I vote we raise it to 40.
And from here, we raise Athletics to 50 for dodging power.
And now we can raise SC to 30.
But this build assumes that we get to keep the Hoz. Mantle 29 strat.
The TL;DR is that we'll need to raise an existing 10-stat into a level 30-slot for pyramid reasons. Which is a little bit more XP than we'd be spending otherwise, but this XP cost isn't that bad --especially if we take advantage of Water Element's halfcost feature. And if we use a combat ninjutsu (such as Surging Seas), then Elemental Apprentice will boost it further.
Alternate Prospective Noburi Build
(Hoz. 29)
(Hoz. 29)
Okay, so since Tsunade raised Noburi's medical stats into the 60s, this is build plan is going to need some reshuffling.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | |||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | |||||
| 40 | Alertness | Athletics | Chakra | ||||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | W.D. Bullet | Resolve | |||
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | ||
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Surging Seas | Hiding in Mist |
Okay, since Tsunade took over Noburi's training, he wasn't able to learn the Elemental Apprentice Stunt for Water. We should hop on that, especially since it's only, like, 25xp.
Now, there's been some talk about raising Noburi's Water Dragon Bullet to 40 for the combat power, or raising Physique to 40 to try and unlock Sage Mode. There's also going to be a push to raise Noburi's Resolve to 40 so he can maximally benefit from FOOM... but, whatever wins out, we're going to need to build pyramid supports for that.
That said, we also kinda want to get Hoz Mantle 29 ASAP, to get rid of the debuff from Noburi's main combat buff. So we'll raise SC to 20, but then delay SC 30 until after he raises HM to 29.
This is a neat compromise between Noburi's desire to have FOOM, but also maintain his combat viability.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | |||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | |||||
| 40 | Alertness | Athletics | Chakra | ||||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | W.D. Bullet | Resolve | |||
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | Shadow Clone | |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Surging Seas | Hiding in Mist |
And now we raise Hoz Mantle to 29, thus getting rid of that nasty debuff. It doesn't take up a 30-slot, so the pyramid won't change, but it's still important to account for the XP.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | |||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | |||||
| 40 | Alertness | Athletics | Chakra | ||||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | W.D. Bullet | Resolve | |||
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | Shadow Clone | |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Surging Seas | Hiding in Mist |
And now we need another 30-stat to make room for another 40-slot. I vote that we raise one of Noburi's 10-stats to that level. Specifically, Surging Seas is a pretty solid ninjutsu, and the forced movement mechanic is really quite nice. If the roll succeeds, we could push enemies into skyslicers, or other such traps.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | ||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | ||||
| 40 | Alertness | Athletics | Chakra | |||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | W.D. Bullet | Resolve | Surging Seas | |
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | Shadow Clone |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Hiding in Mist |
And from there, we run into the "which 30-stat should be Noburi's next 40?" Physique would give Noburi another Physical Stress Box (and make progress towards possibly unlocking Sage Mode, if we ever get back in the Toad Sage's good grces), but Water Dragon Bullet at level 40 means that (with Noburi's shiny new Elemental Apprentice Stunt) it can be cast at an effective level 50. Further, it's halfcost under Water Whip 50.
Water Dragon Bullet is a hecking broken ninjutsu, so I vote we raise it to 40.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | ||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | ||||
| 40 | Alertness | Athletics | Chakra | W.D. Bullet | ||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | Resolve | Surging Seas | ||
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | Shadow Clone |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Hiding in Mist |
And from here, we raise Athletics to 50 for dodging power.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | ||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | Athletics | |||
| 40 | Alertness | Chakra | W.D. Bullet | |||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | Resolve | Surging Seas | ||
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | Shadow Clone |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Hiding in Mist |
And now we can raise SC to 30.
| 60 | Medknow | Mednin | ||||
| 50 | Water Whip | Vamp Dew | Athletics | |||
| 40 | Alertness | Chakra | W.D. Bullet | |||
| 30 | Physique | Syrup Trap | Resolve | Surging Seas | Shadow Clone | |
| 20 | Empathy | Substitution | Hoz. Mantle | Rapport | Deceit | |
| 10 | Stealth | Intimidation | Presence | Water Clone | A.U.B. Bomb | Hiding in Mist |
I think this is misaimed. We should raise HM to 29 immediately and then raise SC to 20, then raise HM to 30. That's combat optimal. HM is a good jutsu and we plan to keep using it for the foreseeable future.
- Location
- Washington, USA
How long until he qualifies for the Elemental Journeyman stunt? Could a similar set of synergy stunts exist for Medknow / Mednin / Vampiric Dew?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So...
- Hoz Mantle 20 -> 29
- SC 0 -> 20
- Hoz Mantle 29 -> 30
- WDB/Physique 30 -> 40
- Athletics 40-> 50
- SC 20 -> 30
- Location
- Texas
I think the implication here is that shit's hard. Joe Jonin can't just dungeon delve a dozen times and come out of it and Essie, you need to already have some good stuff going for you. Regarding the magic items already being taken, well, it seems like the vast majority of people who try this just die, so they won't be taking anything out.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Quite a while, honestly. The prerequisites are that he needs 3 water ninjutsu at or above level 40. And even at the end of our projected build plan, he'll only have Water Whip (level 50) and Water Dragon Bullet (level 40). And even then, there's a good case for his next 40-stat after W.D. Bullet to either be Physique (for the extra HP) or Resolve (for the extra Mental HP and for the increased FOOM Modifier).
As for the synergetic Stunts? I suppose it's possible, yeah, but given how much the QMs have on the backburner (all the seals from Leaf that we've bought-in-story but don't have in-hand, for but one example) I doubt that we'd actually get any.
[] Sealing SOP: Runemaster
- General ideas
- This SOP can be overridden by an action plan, however, this requires the plan-writer to specifically write that they disregard it. By default, this should trump action plans.
- This is for instances where the players vote in something with imperfect knowledge about the difficulty.
- Hazoupilot should be considered here, if he thinks something is mildly risky but he has FP for rerolls etc. then he should be willing to accept a minimal amount of risk.
- If he ever feels like something is very dangerous he should abort research, this overrides even statements disregarding this SOP, the action plan should be ended and the players given the choice of continuing with that course of research.
- Do not work on projects that Hazou thinks have significant danger of failing (fails on a fully prepped roll for infusion or ES/Calligraphy at a -6) with fewer than 3 FP, if possible, buy up to 3 and continue, if insufficient XP exists, pivot to an easier project.
- Do not dual track projects that will fail on a -3 with full prep. One at a time at the most
- If Hazou thinks the project will fail on a -3 with full prep, do not research at all.
- At the beginning of all cycles, Hazou should buy up to 2 FP if he's dual tracking, and 1 FP if he's single tracking.
- Reroll projects for safety only at <4 FP. At >=4 FP reroll difficult projects for progress and safety. Off tracks should be rerolled for safety only to preserve FP.
- Always prep at least one day before infusing to get a general sense of difficulty. Do not ever roll on a rune or seal without prepping one day first.
- If a rune was prepped before Hazou had access to the Trivial/Easy/Medium/Hard benchmarks, prep one day first.
- If we are dual-tracking projects, make an effort align the prep requirements so that we can minimize cycle length. However, note that Hazou can ignore one DoB inflicted Consequence, so if prep days do not align for whatever reason (mostly for researching a rune and a seal at the same time), extending the length of one of the cycles is preferred to abandoning the project.
- If Hazou pivots to researching an easier version of one of the seal/runes after the first version of the idea is too difficult, extend the cycle rather than dropping prep on the first cycle.
- This SOP can be overridden by an action plan, however, this requires the plan-writer to specifically write that they disregard it. By default, this should trump action plans.
- For Seals, on the first roll for research,
- If Trivial/Genin - can be rolled with no-prep and no-DoB
- If Chunin - can be rolled with full-prep and no-DoB, or no-prep and yes-DoB, or IFF we have research notes or lots of veterancy, >2 days-prep and no-DoB.
- If Jounin - can be rolled with full-prep and yes-DoB, reroll agressively. If we have research notes/significant veterancy, reroll normally.
- If Jiraiya - can be rolled with full-prep and yes-DoB IFF we have research notes, reroll agressively
- If the prep requirements can't be met, abort the cycle and research something easier.
- After the first roll, drop or add prep days as Hazoupilot gets comfortable with the infusion rolls. Be conservative here. If he feels he came close to failure, add prep, if that's not possible, don't continue. If he feels it was easy, drop prep days instead.
- For Runes, on the first roll for research
- If Trivial - can be rolled with no-prep and no-DoB
- If Easy- can be rolled with no-prep and yes-DoB, but rolling with some prep is preferred
- If Medium - can be rolled with full-prep and yes-DoB
- If Hard - can be rolled with full-prep and yes-DoB, IFF we have related veterancy in the discipline reroll agressively and consider using Invokes
- It is generally better to pivot to a less difficult version of the rune and research that for veterancy first, as what Hazou did with TR150s.
- If the prep requirements can't be met, abort the cycle and research something easier.
- After the first roll, drop or add prep days as Hazoupilot gets comfortable with the infusion rolls. Be conservative here. If he feels he came close to failure, add prep, if that's not possible, don't continue. If he feels it was easy, drop prep days instead.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Huh, interesting.
Yeah, I feel like Skysliders (if we could get them working) would be a good play here folks. That scribing time is far too steep of a ratio for us to be able to deal with that.
Can't you just CA to the set on other foot and stand on one leg until you get the other set swapped out?
[] Action Plan: The Long Haul
Word Count: <299
Intended Duration: 2(?) subjective months (43 days solar)
Word Count: <299
Intended Duration: 2(?) subjective months (43 days solar)
- Sanity check with team
- Leave the grotto, travel west, around Bear and camp on the far side.
- Set up a research base
- Place a TR140 far underground wrapped with Extra Long Fuse explosives, so that only the top ~25-30m is accessible from the surface. Build the base on that, disguised with SCSA and SSSA.
- Defended by Kagome's trap array.
- Send out Yuno SCs to scout any nearby chakra beast nests.
- After ~1 subjective month. Displace a few hundred miles -- keeping Bear between Uplift and the EN
- Raise the with ES earth to cover the AoE of the TR140 so that it looks natural
- Place a TR140 far underground wrapped with Extra Long Fuse explosives, so that only the top ~25-30m is accessible from the surface. Build the base on that, disguised with SCSA and SSSA.
- Research
- As XP becomes available do the following:
- PS -> 31
- Mednin 0 -> 10
- Sealing -> 54 (spend 40 Notes XP)
- PS -> 32
- Dual track runes, follow the SOP
- First finish Force Domes, and Iron Earth. Then as projects finish, swap out
- Storm Runes
- Air Leadening
- Ninja-radar
- Telescope
- Sunbeam
- Poke-spacer
- Remote Explosive
- Runic JADLs
- Prep day all listed projects while Force Domes and Iron Earth are finishing. Do the Easy/Trivial ones first (with a Medium one thrown in if necessary to match cycle length while Force Domes is finishing.
- FOOM maximally with the team's spare chakra.
- Follow the chakra budget.
- Read notes/scribe seals in rest time
- Once the pool chakra is exhausted. Study Mednin with Noburi until it can be bought to 10
- As XP becomes available do the following:
- Kagome
- Research Banshee Fuckers
- If time remains, prep longer-duration skywalkers and work on those
- Noburi
- Continue to research SC interactions with your bloodline, and teach Hazou Mednin.
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
How long does Yuno have left on her Consequence? It's been 16 (subjective) days since she was hurt, so does Noburi estimate she has about ~1 week left? He estimated about 3 weeks with regular care and she's been receiving it.
How long does Yuno have left on her Consequence? It's been 16 (subjective) days since she was hurt, so does Noburi estimate she has about ~1 week left? He estimated about 3 weeks with regular care and she's been receiving it.
[] Action Plan: Seance Time!
Word Count: <399 (316)
Intended Duration: 6 (4) days
This is a version of @Noumero 's Seance Plan that I have (almost) cut down below 299 words (17 left). Just throwing it up there for next cycle since Yuno will likely be healed and we can stop sticking around the grotto after this.
Word Count: <399 (316)
Intended Duration: 6 (4) days
- Research
- Continue Force Domes, begin Iron Earth Runes
- Additionally research ELF Explosives
- Do a prep day on the Great Seal
- Talk to Kei, Snowflake, and Kagome. Outline the problem of Hidan.
- Jashin's probability-manipulation has been corroborated by Orochimaru, Kamehameha, and empirical evidence. According to Orochimaru, Hidan leverages it for tracking.
- Based on your calculations, taking a conservative view of Hidan's capabilities, he can find us across hundreds of miles. Realistically, he can "refuel" his "budgets", using sacrifices. If Jashin is guiding him, tracking us is just a matter of time.
- If Jashin is guiding him. Kei confirmed that in Bakuchioka, a probability-manipulating entity skewed luck in Hazou's favour. The outcome of Hazou's fight with Daizen likewise seems unnatural.
- Whether this was Jashin or, per Kamehameha, a different entity, doesn't matter. There's a probability-manipulating entity willing to counteract Hidan's probability-manipulation for Hazou.
- You suggest communing with it, and negotiating keeping Akatsuki away, in exchange for a favour. The entity seems at least partly aligned with Hazou. Doubtlessly there are places where its values just weird, not monstrous.
- This isan insane idea. That's why you're looping in Kei and Kagome.
- Hazou has some experience managing Out-possession.
- Kei had hinted she knows methods to "interface with inimical entities" in relative safely.
- Kagome has built an entire paradigm around managing the Out.
- Conduct the ritual.
- Draw on the seance. Do it while having a DoB consequence; have Jashin's symbol nearby.
- Employ whatever other optimizations Kei, Snowflake, and Kagome suggest.
- Ensure there's a way for the entity to communicate what it wants using probability-manipulation. A spirit board; a parchment with a precarious ink bottle; dice being rolled.
- Opening offers:
- Maximizing the future flow of souls across Paths (Washerman). (Say, by popularizing recreational cross-Path travel.)
- Locking-in a constantly changing world (Unkind One). (Say, by having it oscillate between different, but equally utopian, states.)
This is a version of @Noumero 's Seance Plan that I have (almost) cut down below 299 words (17 left). Just throwing it up there for next cycle since Yuno will likely be healed and we can stop sticking around the grotto after this.
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but voting isn't open yet and I haven't even voted for the plans, so the tally would show this as the first vote.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Does Hazō have the skills to make a functional Skyslider? Or anyone else in our party?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We don't have the blueprints, but if we did, then Kagome might have the woodworking skills to build one.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
we did vote for Hazou to write down useful clan secrets to take with us, maybe we could declare he did take blueprints
- Location
- Liverpool
For a lighthouse plan it looks pretty good. 587xp to be spent (not counting notes), but between FOOM and 60 subjective months at a <300 plan, looks to be a decent amount.
Only things I worry about are assessing a Chakra Pool Rune once we get to med nin 10, and how much of our time left will be spent traveling. Not that those don't have reasonable trade-offs, just wanted to raise them. Though, on reflection, I don't know how optimistic I am that we can reproduce that rune at mednin 10 (or how crossover skills count for TNs).
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hm. Yeah, I'd like to do that, if possible.
Hmmm we have 200+ XP banked, looks like the last training plan wasn't implemented.
[] Training Plan Hazou: PS Step
Primordial Sealing 23 -> 27
Spend 204 XP, save 20 XP
With that spent, I think we're 200ish XP away from PS 31. So buying mednin then makes sense. Also assuming a 0.7x FOOM multiplier and 60 days at 3.5 XP/day we should have enough to buy up to PS 31 and then mednin. Note that brevity is capped at 10XP for this plan, but Paper has said they'd give us 1 FP for every 10 days past the brevity cap.
So it makes sense to revisit chakra water runes at the end of the update. Will include.
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