I would include mention somewhere that she's got more influence over the Pangolins than she realizes - they've lauded her as a hero. She's a celebrity that people look up to, and many young Pangolins might see her as a role model. And that means her actions have weight. Her moral stand in refusing to execute the condor prisoners isn't going to go unnoticed.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
I would include mention somewhere that she's got more influence over the Pangolins than she realizes - they've lauded her as a hero. She's a celebrity that people look up to, and many young Pangolins might see her as a role model. And that means her actions have weight. Her moral stand in refusing to execute the condor prisoners isn't going to go unnoticed.
- Location
- Denmark
As I recall, there are three ways that heat can travel, and all but one of them cannot travel through vacuum, but will instead travel through EM waves.
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
[X] action plan : Money where our mouth is
- Prepare the way for unveiling Truck Scroll based trade at the Tournament
- With Kagome's help, make a 2 truck scroll (18 hrs work)
- Pair the Truck Seal with the following proposal:
- Each storage seal slot on a trip leg is auctioned (allow Merchant Council to run)
- Whoever wins the slot gets to specify conditions for it being unlocked at the other end (must be merchant X with Y ryo)
- Seals are unlocked at the other end with one or more trustworthy ninja who collect and store money from conditions for the return trip (unless otherwise specified). Each village pays for their "unlocking/witness" ninja from auction funds. Careful records are kept about unlocking transactions and stored in triplicate (civilian help once the trip becomes regular).
- All money from auctions is split 50/50 between the government of the two villages the trip is happening between
- 10% of the money Leaf collects will be given to the Merchant Council to distribute to "affected parties" to help reduce negative impact/motivate the Council
- As acceptance is gained, the Truck Scroll will be moved back and forth as rapidly as possible and additional ones made
- Start with Mist and propose similar agreements be made with all major villages.
- Propose a Merchant Council delegation come with first demonstration. Encourage merchants in both villages to make a "mail-order" catalog.
- Talk to Jiraiya about truck scroll based trade and propose unveiling it at the Tournament. Emphasize the following:
- It will strengthen existing alliances and be a good starting point for new ones
- It will make the Leaf government money (can fund more self missions)
- It will demonstrate the generosity and greatness of the our clan (as well as it's gutsy-ness)
- It will open up a broader market for private storage seals, which will allow the clan financial independence.
- It could lead to uplifting civilians by allowing specialization.
- This is important; Hazou does not back down or allow the conversation to end without resolution. Goal: End the Pangolin conquest as soon as we are able.
- Affirm:
- She is right to be concerned with the Pangolins' expansionism and is entirely correct that it is at odds with our philosophy.
- We are going to start doing better. RIGHT NOW.
- Deny:
- She is wrong that we are not responsible for this. Even if their war was inevitable, the trade for Skytowers was our (Hazou's) idea.
- Leaf is not the Pangolin clan. Despite superficial similarities, despite its shortcomings from some ideal, Leaf does not parade their conquered enemies around in the streets before execution.
- Assuage:
- We might not be able to reverse or fix this, but we can at least mitigate against future actions by the Pangolin clan.
- We have far more leverage over them than they're willing to admit, with their dependence on us for Skytower seals.
- Also through Jiraiya and Toads.
- Suggest:
- We can use our leverage to negotiate a cessation to their conquests. Keiko maintains her current Tessera, but no more seals if they invade another clan.
- If necessary, we can work with the Pangolins to ensure their needs are met through means other than conquest and slavery.
- If necessary, we can get money from another source and are taking immediate steps to do so.
- Will get more input and suggestions from Jiraiya.
- Offer emotional support:
- If she gets angry or lashes out at Hazou, allow her to vent without pressing and without judgement.
- If she withdraws, sit with her in silence and acknowledge her pain.
- Sincerely thank Keiko for bringing this to our attention. Apologize for being complicit in taking away her solitude and isolation, but offer to buy her some green spandex if she wants it back.
- It will strengthen existing alliances and be a good starting point for new ones
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Technically, this isn't a refrigeration ability, is an insulator. Refrigerators make things colder, insulation keeps them from changing temperature. Which is still useful for food storage if you start with low temperature.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
So I understand that you are really hellbent on getting this done, and you seem to be of the opinion that this truck scroll thing needs to be started right away but:
Do you really think this is the time for it? Why now, instead of 2 months from now? I agree that this is a good idea, but I disagree that its something we need to focus on on the very next update. Adding one more explosive tag to the already precarious pile we are juggling at the moment is a recipe for disaster.
- Location
- Yes.
Note: We should probably observe OPSEC for this entire section, given the implications of us having sold Pangolins seals which gave them their newfound abilities.
DIdn't quite understand that "stop digging" part at first and panicked because I thought it would end up like the killbox incident. Maybe remove the quotes; it reads just as well without them?
Ok yeah, let's not do that.
Observation: Hazou has no idea what "Ami's style of training" is, and I'm not sure if asking Keiko would go well (not to mention how OOC it would seem). Might I suggest we say that we self-create difficult rules for us to follow every day, and add in parentheses "Ami's style of training" or something?
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
@MMKII
The reason I am "hellbent" on getting this done right now is because it is the perfect time to do so and a month or two from now may not be.
1. Our teammate just expressed concern with our net positive/negative effect on the world. Just saying "but we did good things too" is not sufficient. Hazou is in practice the leader of this team. A good leader addresses his team's concerns with both words and actions. Just drawing attention to facts that she already knows is not enough. Immediately dropping what he is doing to try to make a more positive impact shows he hears what she is saying.
2. We are in a politically dominate position right now. We might not be later. The Truck Scroll proposal takes advantage of that and works to further cement that position.
3. Political alliances are important and will become more so as the Akatsuki become more active. This will be an important tool to encourage Villages to stand together and the sooner it is in play the better.
4. The Truck scroll concept needs some time to percolate. The Merchant Council needs so time to wrap their heads around how much money they could make and come to agreement. It is important that this get started now so that they can agree in time and our social spec teammates can capitalize on the opportunity to make new alliances.
5. The Hivemind has shown a tendency to focus on short term mechanical gains over fulfillment of uplift. I suspect that having a Truck Scroll waiting to be used will help move things forward.
6. Unlike the other "immediate progress on uplift proposals", this one only takes 1-2 days to get rolling and can bring in resources from other groups (such as Keiko, Kagome, Mari and the Nara). It also doesn't cost many financial resources.
7. Even if the Truck Scroll proposal gets hung up politically, we still end up with useful resources (>200 storage seals) which can be used in further plans (for money or political favors). So even in the worse case, we aren't losing much.
8. We can also use this for "let's make seals together" bonding time with Kagome, which sort of makes this a relaxation activity.
9. Keiko can also show off her non-summoner skills if she cares to help by making logistical arguments.
The reason I am "hellbent" on getting this done right now is because it is the perfect time to do so and a month or two from now may not be.
1. Our teammate just expressed concern with our net positive/negative effect on the world. Just saying "but we did good things too" is not sufficient. Hazou is in practice the leader of this team. A good leader addresses his team's concerns with both words and actions. Just drawing attention to facts that she already knows is not enough. Immediately dropping what he is doing to try to make a more positive impact shows he hears what she is saying.
2. We are in a politically dominate position right now. We might not be later. The Truck Scroll proposal takes advantage of that and works to further cement that position.
3. Political alliances are important and will become more so as the Akatsuki become more active. This will be an important tool to encourage Villages to stand together and the sooner it is in play the better.
4. The Truck scroll concept needs some time to percolate. The Merchant Council needs so time to wrap their heads around how much money they could make and come to agreement. It is important that this get started now so that they can agree in time and our social spec teammates can capitalize on the opportunity to make new alliances.
5. The Hivemind has shown a tendency to focus on short term mechanical gains over fulfillment of uplift. I suspect that having a Truck Scroll waiting to be used will help move things forward.
6. Unlike the other "immediate progress on uplift proposals", this one only takes 1-2 days to get rolling and can bring in resources from other groups (such as Keiko, Kagome, Mari and the Nara). It also doesn't cost many financial resources.
7. Even if the Truck Scroll proposal gets hung up politically, we still end up with useful resources (>200 storage seals) which can be used in further plans (for money or political favors). So even in the worse case, we aren't losing much.
8. We can also use this for "let's make seals together" bonding time with Kagome, which sort of makes this a relaxation activity.
9. Keiko can also show off her non-summoner skills if she cares to help by making logistical arguments.
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- Location
- Denmark
My thought was basically to fill the inner box with as many ice-cubes and such as possible to bring the temperature down, and then isolating it.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Right, but why does it have to go into this very plan, instead of the one that we're going to put together in a few days?
Im not sufficiently convinced this isn't jumping the gun on uplift ideas. I'd rather we get around to dealing with current emotional situations and talking to everyone about these issues to get further information or to (at least) give the Hivemind time to put together a cogent battleplan on that front.
Edit: As in like, I think it would be better if you just did a big post doing a simple breakdown of the mechanics of this idea, and outlining some starting steps and whatnot so that we can just copypasta most of it into the next plan
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So...you're saying that you were going to start with a low temperature and then apply insulation? Huh. Wish I'd thought of that.My thought was basically to fill the inner box with as many ice-cubes and such as possible to bring the temperature down, and then isolating it.
- Location
- Potato land
Ok, since we have a few more hours and are determined to get to the Keiko conversation this update, here's my feedback. I'm fine with everything else in @Vecht's plan.
The main thing I dislike about this approach is that the goal appears to be to convince Keiko to agree to stop the Pangolin conquest, rather than help her deal with her dilemma and decide what she wants to do about it. It has the potential to blow back in our faces hard, and reminds me uncomfortably of when Hazou went on a tirade about clan secrets after Kagome's attempt at Minami's life, and got shut down hard. Keiko is not the kind of person to take kindly to this kind of forceful approach, I think.
My second issue is that the section seems overspecified in terms of putting things directly in Hazou's mouth. I don't think we need to be quite so specific about what leverage we have over the Pangolins and how we can cushion against the losses incurred. A promise that Hazou is willing to support even very drastic action with all the consequences of such, should be enough here.
My alternative:
Wait until an opportune time and talk to Keiko about her concerns.
Thoughts? I also tried to add some introspection and character development for Hazou as well.
The main thing I dislike about this approach is that the goal appears to be to convince Keiko to agree to stop the Pangolin conquest, rather than help her deal with her dilemma and decide what she wants to do about it. It has the potential to blow back in our faces hard, and reminds me uncomfortably of when Hazou went on a tirade about clan secrets after Kagome's attempt at Minami's life, and got shut down hard. Keiko is not the kind of person to take kindly to this kind of forceful approach, I think.
My second issue is that the section seems overspecified in terms of putting things directly in Hazou's mouth. I don't think we need to be quite so specific about what leverage we have over the Pangolins and how we can cushion against the losses incurred. A promise that Hazou is willing to support even very drastic action with all the consequences of such, should be enough here.
My alternative:
Wait until an opportune time and talk to Keiko about her concerns.
- Goal: Offer emotional support and help Keiko decide on a way forward that she can morally accept.
- Tone: Serious, but gentle. In spite of everything, Hazou retains some hope for the future.
- Main points to touch on:
- Hazou is strangely relieved to see Keiko torn up about this. Indifference would be much, much worse.
- He agrees with Keiko's analysis. She is perhaps too harsh on Leaf, which Hazou still thinks can be a force for good in the world. In general, though, we have dug ourselves in a hole, and have not tried hard enough to get out of it.
- He's to blame for this, as well. Two years of living as missing-nin, hoarding every scrap of power in a desperate struggle to survive, left him with a mindset he has trouble shaking off. But he needs to, if we're to deliver on our promise of uplift.
- With our position in Leaf nearly solidified, Hazou has a lot of plans to make things better, and he's not willing to put them off any further. He hopes he can count on Keiko's help in making them a reality.
- About the Pangolins, Hazou is willing to support whatever Keiko wants to do, even very drastic measures. We have significant leverage over them, and can do without them if we need to. The next step would be discussing the problem as a clan.
- He's proud that Keiko refused to execute the Condor prisoners in the face of immense social pressure. He believes she made more of a difference through that gesture than she thinks.
- Offer emotional support:
- If she gets angry or lashes out at Hazou, allow her to vent without pressing and without judgement.
- If she withdraws, sit with her in silence and acknowledge her pain.
Thoughts? I also tried to add some introspection and character development for Hazou as well.
- Location
- UK
Storage scrolls are already ideal better than ideal insulators (they preserve their contents unchanged), so for me the issue is just not seeing what the utility is. Vacuum chambers are difficult and dangerous in comparison.My thought was basically to fill the inner box with as many ice-cubes and such as possible to bring the temperature down, and then isolating it.
I like this approach, actually. I do think it would be a more suitable one for Keiko.
- Location
- Liverpool
[X] Action plan: More power
I think that the more time to plan out the conversation with Keiko, and actually taking steps that show that we've internalized what she's said, first, is valuable.
I think that the more time to plan out the conversation with Keiko, and actually taking steps that show that we've internalized what she's said, first, is valuable.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
[X] Action Plan: Power Overwhelming
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Fully agree with this approach, it feels a lot more respectful of Keiko's opinions and autonomy and doesn't feel like Hazou's trying to downplay our moral culpability in our past actions, while still bringing up the same suite of talking points and opens the door for fixing the situation once Keiko's decided what she thinks.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
@Roomba
I agree with (what I think is) your intent here on the bolded portions. I think its a little too wordy and preachy (this uh, does sort of seem like we're just inputting an entire speech into Hazous mouth?) . I think that how Vecht has it done at the moment is okay, if a little too mercenary. We can add in some variation of the bolded stuff and that would fix this issue IMO.
My only criticism of @Vecht 's plan is that (like Roomba) I think that the Pangolin conversation comes off as a little too blunt/spikey. If we can massage the wording a bit to neutralize any possible confrontation or negative emotional impact while achieving the same goals and respecting Keiko's agency, that would be ideal.
Unfortunately, I do not have the spoons to do this at the moment (and I will not be available for a few hours leading up to the deadline) so I can't do this myself.
I agree with (what I think is) your intent here on the bolded portions. I think its a little too wordy and preachy (this uh, does sort of seem like we're just inputting an entire speech into Hazous mouth?) . I think that how Vecht has it done at the moment is okay, if a little too mercenary. We can add in some variation of the bolded stuff and that would fix this issue IMO.
My only criticism of @Vecht 's plan is that (like Roomba) I think that the Pangolin conversation comes off as a little too blunt/spikey. If we can massage the wording a bit to neutralize any possible confrontation or negative emotional impact while achieving the same goals and respecting Keiko's agency, that would be ideal.
Unfortunately, I do not have the spoons to do this at the moment (and I will not be available for a few hours leading up to the deadline) so I can't do this myself.
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- Location
- Potato land
Ok, not sure when @Vecht is going to be online, so I'm putting up his plan with my Keiko section. Less than 5 hours till the deadline, may God have mercy on my soul.
Wordcount can probably be optimized, but it isn't worth it with so little time left.
[] Action Plan: Power Not Too Overwhelming
Wordcount can probably be optimized, but it isn't worth it with so little time left.
[] Action Plan: Power Not Too Overwhelming
- Wait until an opportune time and talk to Keiko about her concerns.
- Goal: Offer emotional support and help Keiko decide on a way forward that she can morally accept.
- Tone: Serious, but gentle. In spite of everything, Hazou retains some hope for the future.
- Main points to touch on:
- Hazou is strangely relieved to see Keiko torn up about this. Indifference would be much, much worse.
- He agrees with Keiko's analysis. She is perhaps too harsh on Leaf, which Hazou still thinks can be a force for good in the world. In general, though, we have dug ourselves in a hole, and have not tried hard enough to get out of it.
- He's to blame for this, as well. Two years of living as missing-nin, hoarding every scrap of power in a desperate struggle to survive, left him with a mindset he has trouble shaking off. But he needs to, if we're to deliver on our promise of uplift.
- With our position in Leaf nearly solidified, Hazou has a lot of plans to make things better, and he's not willing to put them off any further. He hopes he can count on Keiko's help in making them a reality.
- About the Pangolins, Hazou is willing to support whatever Keiko wants to do, even very drastic measures. We have significant leverage over them, and can do without them if we need to. The next step would be discussing the problem as a clan.
- He's proud that Keiko refused to execute the Condor prisoners in the face of immense social pressure. He believes she made more of a difference through that gesture than she thinks.
- Offer emotional support:
- If she gets angry or lashes out at Hazou, allow her to vent without pressing and without judgement.
- If she withdraws, sit with her in silence and acknowledge her pain.
- Catch up with Mari and Kagome
- See what's been going on in Leaf
- Use Kagome's tutoring activity as basis for a "Tutoring At Risk Kids program."
- Possibly subsidized by selling explosive seals?
- D-rank mission pays and/or pay-it-forward scheme.
- Catch up with Hana when she arrives
- About Mari and how we've come to view her as family. We understand Hana's frustration, and don't ask that she also forgive Mari, just to give her a chance.
- About what Akane said and how he feels about it
- While waiting for Jiraiya proactively start focusing on training
- Look into if we can get Gai or Kakashi to commit to training with us
- Look for chunnin who we can spar with
- Commit to Ami's style of training
- Can be done offscreen:
- Check status on our license to sell seals
- Start researching casino seals (w/Kagome's help)
- Give Jiraiya a list of all the seals we have seen with any details we know
- Talk to Jiraiya about Shadow Clones. OBSERVE OPSEC.
- From what they were told, a single clone being genjutsued knocked out Naruto. This implies some sort of knowledge or experience transfer.
- Possibility seems to exist for training with them.
- Elaborate on idea for Chakra Beast Containment Facility for Noburi to drain. If this seems unsafe, suggest doing training in high-chakra density locations (Forest/Swamp of Death...)
- From what they were told, a single clone being genjutsued knocked out Naruto. This implies some sort of knowledge or experience transfer.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Power Not Too Overwhelming
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
TBF I don't like your Keiko section as written. I see this as a really soft approach, and its totally in line with (paraphrased) "Our bullshit tendency to make cute speeches and not actually follow up on stuff."
Vecht's conversation is fine. What we can do to ameliorate anything is maybe add a line after
To the effect of "At the same time, Hazou will be cognizant that this is an emotionally charged subject, and will treat it with the appropriate care."
or something
- Location
- Potato land
Oops, failed at timezone conversion.
I'd prefer to not have this conversation right now, exactly because it can be viewed as pretty words with no follow up regardless of what we say. If we are going to have it, though, I like my approach more than @Vecht's, which I think is excessively focused on the Pangolins at the expense of the broader problem.
If we can arrive at a consensus to put this off until we've actually done something of positive impact, I'd be all for it, though.
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- Location
- Snakesden
Does the tournament roughly coincide with the end of Jiraiya's 3 months?
Asking because [whichever one of those comes later] seems like a good Schelling point for us to focus more on implementing uplift stuff. (Before then, we have urgent/immediate ways to improve our ability to help the world.)
Asking because [whichever one of those comes later] seems like a good Schelling point for us to focus more on implementing uplift stuff. (Before then, we have urgent/immediate ways to improve our ability to help the world.)
[X] Action Plan: Power Not Too Overwhelming