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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Langevin said:
IMO it feels disingenuous to apologize here. We can apologize for things being crazy and difficult, but we're glad Keiko feels she has agency and family, and we're proud of her moral compass.
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That's intended to be tongue-in-cheek. We aren't actually apologizing. Have suggestions for better wording?

Cariyaga said:
Threatening the pangolin so explicitly as that is not the way to go about this.
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What is this in response to? Of course we need to be more subtle about it, but surely that doesn't apply to discussing this with Keiko et al?
 
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[X] action plan: More power
Shame we don't have more time to discuss these plans, but I admit this one gets everything I want done that I can think of.

I'm leery a bit of Power Overwhelming because I feel like if we approached Keiko too soon and tried to talk it out with her, she wouldn't take it well. A core part of her objection is that we haven't done many concrete things for good, and if all we have to assuage that is 'we'll get to it soon, I promise!' then I would expect Keiko to see it as more of the same empty words and decrease her opinion of us accordingly.

What we need to do is show her, with actions and not words, that we are committed to doing good. We can't reasonably do that during the training month but this has been a slow-burn issue from the beginning, it doesn't need to be addressed immediately. Once we have more than just promises and lofty ideals behind our words, and once Keiko's had time to piece together what she actually thinks about Leaf and the Pangolins and our roles in each society, only then would I be comfortable talking things out with her.

Talking to her within a day or two, and addressing all of the points she brought up one by one, would just make it sound like we heard her say something we disliked and want to get those notions out of her head. I don't see Keiko here as willing to retreat into comfortable lies about this, so if we try to use fancy words and lofty ideals to soothe her concerns, I fear she would only see us as manipulating her into being good and compliant as Team Uplift, in her mind, treads close to the edge of becoming monsters in the pursuit of a murky and ethereal greater good.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I'm leery a bit of Power Overwhelming because I feel like if we approached Keiko too soon and tried to talk it out with her, she wouldn't take it well.
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The literal first line is "Wait until an opportune time and discuss Pangolins with Keiko, when she is ready to do so."

Inferno Vulpix said:
A core part of her objection is that we haven't done many concrete things for good, and if all we have to assuage that is 'we'll get to it soon, I promise!' then I would expect Keiko to see it as more of the same empty words and decrease her opinion of us accordingly.
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This is not about assuaging that "we'll get to it soon," this is about determination of how we'll go about halting the Pangolin conquest. How is that not concrete? Do you have a concrete suggestion that is more direct than "figure out how to negotiate with them to immediately cease their conquest?"

Inferno Vulpix said:
What we need to do is show her, with actions and not words, that we are committed to doing good. We can't reasonably do that during the training month but this has been a slow-burn issue from the beginning, it doesn't need to be addressed immediately. Once we have more than just promises and lofty ideals behind our words, and once Keiko's had time to piece together what she actually thinks about Leaf and the Pangolins and our roles in each society, only then would I be comfortable talking things out with her.

Talking to her within a day or two, and addressing all of the points she brought up one by one, would just make it sound like we heard her say something we disliked and want to get those notions out of her head. I don't see Keiko here as willing to retreat into comfortable lies about this, so if we try to use fancy words and lofty ideals to soothe her concerns, I fear she would only see us as manipulating her into being good and compliant as Team Uplift, in her mind, treads close to the edge of becoming monsters in the pursuit of a murky and ethereal greater good.
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I'm all for being supportive of Keiko, but on the other hand, genocide.

I know potentially making Keiko uncomfortable is a difficult tradeoff to make, but I think we're at least marginally in the green on this one.
 
[X] Action Plan: Power Overwhelming

The only thing that makes me wary/unsure/nervous (but to such a slim degree that it's barely worth mentioning*) about this plan is the word count - 574 words - seems a bit much, although I don't see any easy ways to trim it.

*Even if the plan was of enough of a ridiculous length to give a negative xp modifier, I still think that the [heading/direction/cut of the jib] of this plan would be worth it.
 
eaglejarl said:
What's henge?


Speaking only as myself and not as a QM here:

I generally agree with what I think is your intent -- nothing can change the past, so there isn't really a way to "make up for" something, there is only modifying future action. I would note, though, that saying that what a person did in the past "is irrelevant" means they have no responsibility for those actions, and there is therefore no need of guilt, justice, or change in future behavior. After all, "Right Now" is constantly becoming "Back Then", so if everything that you did Back Then is irrelevant, then no action is relevant.

I'm positive that this is not what you meant, I only wanted to point out something that might be a distraction from your actual message.

Praise the Friggin' Lord. I still remember fractional exponents on every dice roll.
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To perhaps expand upon (an) opposed argument, the past is only relevant insofar as it informs the future. If you were a serial killer, putting you in jail is good because you have a significantly above average chance of killing people; It's also valuable, because precommmiting to jailing serial killers can discourage further killers. When people change, their past actions become less useful predicators of their present and future ones, ditto for people being forgotten about or hidden punishment...

Fundementally, I think you should learn from the past, change course in the present, and acheive in the future; the past itself isn't valuable except insofar it aids that process.
 
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re: pangolins

There's a card we have yet to play.

What if we traded them skywalkers in exchange for being decent to the clans they conquer (eg. letting them keep their culture and having representation/full citizenship within the empire)?

It's not an ideal scenario, but I imagine it could be tons easier to get an agreement to than "stop being imperialists or no more seals".
 
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MadScientist said:
re: pangolins

There's a card we have yet to play.

What if we traded them skywalkers in exchange for being decent to the clans they conquer (eg. letting them keep their culture and having representation/full citizenship within the empire)?

It's not an ideal scenario, but I imagine it could be tons easier to get an agreement to than "stop being imperialists or no more seals".
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Skywalkers only last 15-20 minutes per set; I don't think it's practical to supply them with enough to matter. The Skytowers work well because they last a full month.

Also, I'm skeptical it would work, given the sheer fanaticism they've shown.
 
Erolki said:
Skywalkers only last 15-20 minutes per set; I don't think it's practical to supply them with enough to matter. The Skytowers work well because they last a full month.

Also, I'm skeptical it would work, given the sheer fanaticism they've shown.
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They have the choice of changing their culture or dying, then. 'Cause guess what:

People might be curious of what happened at the crater where the Pangolin civilization used to be, but they won't question it the same way they would if we nuked, say, Rock.
 
...Do you remember how Panjandrum was reputed to have been quite powerful in his time, but "lazy" now?

...I wonder if that might have any link to the pangolin's warmongering ways...
 
Cariyaga said:
...Do you remember how Panjandrum was reputed to have been quite powerful in his time, but "lazy" now?

...I wonder if that might have any link to the pangolin's warmongering ways...
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Interesting idea. Panjandrum also comes across as the most friendly of the bunch (i.e. when he let Keiko ride him just to cheer her up) which could indicate being less xenophobic than the rest.
 
Magnive said:
Do we know if MEW are airtight? Or if we have access to relatively inexpensive airtight material?

Have we tried to store air before, and can seals be activated from a bit of distance without line of sight, or alternatively have a timer before their activation?

Basically, what I'm thinking might be possible would be creating vacuums between two MEW/something else boxes, and then being able to use that for long-distance refrigeration. Has this particular idea, or something similar, been discussed before?

On the other hand, it might lean a bit too much on an understanding of Physics unavailable to the characters.
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I don't think this was ever fully responded to, so here's my take: MEW makes solid granite, which should be nonporous at the thicknesses we're talking about. However, making multiple walls in a single cast means they're only connected at an angle, and that is unlikely to be airtight in itself.

We have seals that can store air. IIUC normal storage seals can only manage this feat if the air is contained in a storable object. MEW is a bad candidate for this since you'll struggle to get under the weight limits.

I don't understand how your refrigeration idea is intended to work. I also don't understand what it would be needed for.

I'm not very confident about my claims here, and would need to check the list of rulings.
Inferno Vulpix said:
Any thoughts? Did I peg any numbers too low? Too high? Do you think that scaling it this way is useful, or would you prefer speed to be completely controllable in exchange for varying chakra costs?
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The QMs are not super-fond of fractional powers. That's why I proposed the interpolation option, which makes the QMs' lives as easy as possible whilst being obviously well behaved.
 
[X] action plan: More power

I'm literally only voting for this plan because something as delicate as the Keiko conversation should not be planned for 6 hours before the deadline. I very nearly missed even being able to read the plan before it won, which is a situation I'm rather unhappy about.
 
Voting is extended until 5pm Eastern Time.

Veedrac said:
For realz, why aren't you automating dice and the resulting output? I don't understand the mechanics particularly well, but a lot of it seems well within the bounds of what you can do in a spreadsheet with checkboxes and trivial formula.
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I did. It was still a pain in the neck, because it made it difficult to intuit results or set stats based on expected power levels. With current linear dice pools I can say "Okay, five dice higher makes this a very tough but doable fight" and that's true regardless of the numbers. Try that with fractional exponents in the mix and suddenly it matters whether the people are jōnin or genin. (Yes, yes, Aspect Bonuses scale. It's still easier to manage.)

Oneiros said:
The uplift stuff however is just incredibly boring to me. Like you want to read about building walls? If that's what your into that's cool but it's not for me. It also seems like setting our ambition super low. It might help out a couple hundred people but that's playing so far beneath our capabilities.
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I don't recall if I've explicitly asked this before: what is interesting to you? You are one of our most reliable voters and a prolific player who has interesting ideas, yet it feels like you frequently mention that you find the current plot line or current plan boring. What sort of thing would fix that issue?

Vecht said:
That's intended to be tongue-in-cheek. We aren't actually apologizing. Have suggestions for better wording?
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That wasn't obvious to me, so you might want to tweak the wording. In particular, whenever you are putting humor in a PLAN!!! it's fine to use phrases like "jokingly say...".

QTesseract said:
To perhaps expand upon (an) opposed argument, the past is only relevant insofar as it informs the future. If you were a serial killer, putting you in jail is good because you have a significantly abkce average chance of killing people; It's also valuable, because precommmiting to jailing serial killers can discourage further killers. When people change, their past actions become less useful predicators od their present and future ones, ditto for people being forgotten about or hidden punishment...

Fundementally, I think you should learn from the psst, change course in the present, amd acheive in the future; the past itslf isnt valuable except insofar it aids that process.
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I would agree with this. Nicely put.
 
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eaglejarl said:
I don't recall if I've explicitly asked this before: what is interesting to you? You are one of our most reliable voters and a prolific player who has interesting ideas, yet it feels like you frequently mention that you find the current plot line or current plan boring. What sort of thing would fix that issue?
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Deus Ex Marriage between Ami and Hazo should do it.
 
eaglejarl said:
I did. It was still a pain in the neck, because it made it difficult to intuit results or set stats based on expected power levels. With current linear dice pools I can say "Okay, five dice higher makes this a very tough but doable fight" and that's true regardless of the numbers. Try that with fractional exponents in the mix and suddenly it matters whether the people are jōnin or genin. (Yes, yes, Aspect Bonuses scale. It's still easier to manage.)
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Gotcha'. Clearly the solution is working exclusively in log-space just winging it making up the rolls never writing combat ever again asking the players not to munchkin neural networks not using fractional exponents.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Enjou on Sep 8, 2018 at 7:53 AM, finished with 226 posts and 16 votes.
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[X] Action Plan: Power Overwhelming


@Vecht are you around to edit this before 5pm today?
 
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