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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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The toughness of gromil most likely comes from the purity of its matter and from its rigid molecular arrangemnet. a ORDERED arrangement of molecules. like how carbon graphene tubes is infinitely stronger than normal carbon even though they are the same material just from being a ORDERED arragnement. So most likely the fact that gromil has a ordered molecular arrangement of purely on molecule has a impact on the Warp itself, a reflection in the warp as the antithesis of the random and impureness of that realm that makes it so anti chaos.
 
I wanna figure out the Greedy One's Heart, start getting benefits from that as soon as possible. Such would work well in conjunction with getting our workshop up and running for Master Runeing.

And we're not recognized because of our hood. How entertaining.
 
One thing that occurs to me from the Heart I don't think I saw anyone suggest would be a Rune of Growth. Given the way the Greedy One grew and mutated at the end that seems like it might be possible. Oversized weapons or armor that can turn a dwarf into ogre sized. Not saying its better than what people have been throwing around, but it did occur to me.
 
One thing that occurs to me from the Heart I don't think I saw anyone suggest would be a Rune of Growth. Given the way the Greedy One grew and mutated at the end that seems like it might be possible. Oversized weapons or armor that can turn a dwarf into ogre sized. Not saying its better than what people have been throwing around, but it did occur to me.
Doubtful, part of Dwarves' nature is that they can't be easily altered by chaos, it's why there are no dwarf mages, so I doubt runes would have that large an effect on the growth of a dwarf, anything that isn't a dwarf? Sure, but a dwarf? Probably more minor changes. Still good idea though, if it does allow for minor changes, it could help us get better at runesmithing depending on how it works, and how much it works
 
In canon WHF a runelord was able to make swords that can permanently kill demons with it being owned and passed down by one of the Elector counts in the Old World. How hard would it be for us to make something like that?
 
So, I'm not a warhammer expert, so all this speculation may be for nothing if a few of my assumptions about how runes, magic, and the great vortex are not true. I'm assuming some runes either destroy some winds or send it back to the warp, and I'm assuming that they can do that at least by imposing order on the magic, and their effects are from the energy unleashed by making a chaotic thing orderly (I added this second sentence when I looked back over my comment, so sorry if there is some repetition).

Most importantly (for idea number 1), does forcing order upon the chaos destroy/send out of reality the winds of magic? At least partially? Then I have another question, using other runes to funnel lots of magical energy to a super pure large amount of gromnil, each piece of which inscribed with a master rune of Gromnil, could we make a mini vortex? I don't know exactly how the elves made their vortex, but I know from looking it up that runestones are used to funnel magic towards the vortex from the rest of the world, so maybe runecraft could be used to destroy chaos energy through forcing order upon it

Alternatively, the other 2 rune combos we know may be able to be used to, if done in large enough numbers, to drain magic from the world, or make it into something else, if we were able to mess with one of the parts of it to make the conversion combo of runes into something which helps fuel our everything, if "conversion" is literal enough (which I believe it could be given the QM said that runes dislike abstracts, thus implying, I think, that they like being literal) we could just use it to power our forges, and the forges of an entire city would be a lot of magic gone. I focus on conversion because it is literally converting warp sourced energy into real world energy by eating spells and powering us. We could find other ways of doing this, of course, using the spelleater or breaker runes with others, maybe Valaya, or maybe Gromnil for the reasons in the previous paragraph

The demon ward rune combo, maybe if combined with other effects, could also help to reduce chaos energy around the world if it does reduce power of the winds overall focused on the demons, seems promising

To clarify, when I say mini vortex, I do mean mini, and that only with large numbers, could they have a noticeable effect on the amount of warp energy coming in. The vortex is just used because, AFAIK, it is the only thing in warhammer which does this in the Canon story, not because I actually expect us to pull off this sort of thing easily, it's just the only thing I know of in warhammer which can do this and so the thing that I compare it to
 
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While I hate to be a bummer, I think most of that speculation is moot. I don't think the warp gates have collapsed at this point in time, so neither the winds of magic nor the vortex should exist at this point as the winds come from the collapsed gates unleashing magic across the world and vastly increasing it's density (thus the demonic threat) and the vortex was built to drain the winds back into the Chaos realm. We're currently in the period before magic as it was in canon - manipulation of the winds - existed, so we're dealing with whatever the original status quo of the planet was.
 
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While I hate to be a bummer, I think most of that speculation is moot. I don't think the warp gates have collapsed at this point in time, so neither the winds of magic nor the vortex should exist at this point as the winds come from the collapsed gates unleashing magic across the world and vastly increasing it's density (thus the demonic threat) and the vortex was built to drain the winds back into the Chaos realm. We're currently in the period before magic as it was in canon - manipulation of the winds - existed, so we're dealing with whatever the original status quo of the planet was.
Um...there are Daemons running around. Of course the Warp Gates have collapsed.
 
Um...there are Daemons running around. Of course the Warp Gates have collapsed.
Also soulcake has said outright the gates have collapsed IIRC.

Both of them pale.

"THEY NEVER STOPPED TO BEGIN WITH," you yell, chortling darkly.

Pocket gravel.
Muahahahahaha.

Eyes up beardlings!
Collaborative teaching, so efficient.
Double giggles quadruple the fun!

You quietly walk through the halls of the hold, a simple red cloak and a bulging sack that bears the Runes of Concealment, Lightstep and Silence. You're dressed more like a simple ranger than a Runelord ought to be, but despite all sense and logic you cannot help but conceal this little yearly excursion of yours.

Up ahead you see a group of beardlings laughing, clearly having just left one of the local taverns and on their way home. As you get closer you see the glinting emblem of Clan Dromminling, a clan of miners who were part of the original expedition, many of whose members worked in the mines surrounding the area though mostly centred around the Gromril mine.

"Goren save yourself the effort, the Ruhnrikki's apprentice is out of your league," one young beardling chortles.

"I'm not trying anything, wouldn't be proper anyway. I can't believe the lot of you. I answer a question honestly and this is what I get!" a dwarf you presume is Goren grumbles back good-naturedly.

"We aren't mocking you for answering the question friend, it's for describing her like a Skald recanting the beauty of Valaya," another snaps back with a chuckle.

"I answered honestly!" he bites back hotly.

"Aye ya did, which makes it even funnier!" one says, causing the whole group to laugh.

"The lot of you shush now, forgive us for disturbing you Elder," the seemingly oldest of them says, turning to you and bowing, followed swiftly by his fellows.

You snort, give them all a standard glare of disapproval and move on without a word.

"Elder looked familiar," you hear one of the beardlings note from behind you.

"Where did you meet a ranger with a beard like that?" another says, their voices beginning to fade.

"Don't rightly recall," is the last thing you hear from that group before it becomes unintelligible for even your keen hearing.

Hmmph.

Best to write to Iggun about it, she did ask you to keep an eye on her daughter after all, and dwarfs taking notice of Fjolla in that manner did count as something she ought to know by your reckoning. Wouldn't do for her or her husband to be surprised by a marriage offer from a different clan.

You shake your head, you wished the girl luck. Courtship was always a rather tangled mess of politics, economics and familial drama.

Luckily for you, Klaus Drokkisson was the type of father who took his children's feelings into account when approving or denying their request to marry.

Still, you didn't see Fjolla settling down anytime soon. While women were often encouraged to marry on account of their comparative rarity to men, it was just as respectable for a dwarf woman to live her life without so much as looking at a man. After all, it wasn't as if your people were in danger of dying out any more than a race usually was. Well that, and the fact that dwarf stubbornness was inherent to all of your people probably played a part.

But enough ruminating, you had things to do and errands to run.

Shifting your shoulders, you move the bulging sack back into a position you can tolerate as you make your way through the residential and towards the temple district, heading straight to the Temple of Valaya specifically.

Ho ho ho indeed.
At the top of the staircase Elder Moira stood alone, patiently tapping her foot.

"Getting tired in your old age beardling? You're a good twelve seconds late, how uncouth to make a woman my age wait so long," she tuts at you.

You simply bow and apologize before following her into the temple proper.

Quietly, with the aid of runes in your case and simple skill in Moira's, the both of you make your way deep into the interior complex of the temple, into its most heavily guarded areas to reach your destination.

The Foundling Ward.

Foundlings, the thought sent a wave of sadness through you. Often enough clans took in and raised the children of their dead kinsmen themselves, the elders giving them the education their parents would have and none would be worse for wear.

But sometimes that didn't happen.

A small family who may have left their clan's hold to forge a branch in another hold being wiped out, the result of dalliances or trysts, perhaps even abandoned wholesale. The former was tragic, the latter made you think dark thoughts.

From these fates came the foundlings, children born without clan or home through no fault of their own.

The world was cruel, especially to these young dwarfs. No parents, no support network like a clan offered, no traditions save that of their people, only the priestesses of Valaya took them in, and through connections to the various guilds helped them find suitable apprenticeships so that they may make a life for themselves.

With that thought in mind you carefully lay down the sack and one by one, take out the toys you have built over the past few years in your free time, and lay them down at the foot of each child's bed. You and elder moira do this for every room, quietly entering, laying down a toy over and over until every last child has received one, the excess kept by the Temple to hand off when another inevitably arrives at your request.

You note with a tint of sadness that there are more foundlings here than all the other times you've visited, only one more in a long list of reasons to curse that abominable Troll and its horde.

"You don't have to come each time you do realize?" Elder Moira says for what feels like the umpteenth time. In reality, it's only the third time, but the point stands.

"Doesn't feel right to do it any other way," you answer honestly

"Suit yourself," she says, a hint of exasperated humour in her voice.

"I'll be back soon enough, thank you for humouring me Elder," you say sincerely.

"Bah, off with you now beardling, I'm sure a Runelord has better things to do than drop off toys to children," she says with a shoo-ing gesture.

You say nothing as you leave, empty sack hanging from your back, but both of you know that you really didn't believe that despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

Must be that inherent dwarf stubbornness.
This writing is of exceptional quality and is adorned with heart shapes


Fifteen strikes with the chisel on the Rune Metal, ordered in perfect alignment…

No, that wasn't it. You continue the chant in your mind, discarding references to Garim the Ancestor, the instructions for precise striking, and dig instead into what you thought was simply thematic filler.

...let it be ordered thus and carry the strength of the Star Iron…

There, there! There is something there, you can feel it in your oldest whiskers but what is it? You aren't there, but you're closer. Closer, you can feel it, you go over more of the chant methodically.

...as Thungni brought order to madness let this Gromril bring order to the metal, let order return to itself…

Wait.

As Thungni brought order to madness...let this Gromril bring order

Order.

Order.


ORDER.

The mental image of the Master Rune of Gromril, still sitting in the corner of your mind, blazes with blinding light
Well then! This will be a long and resourceful line of inquiry.

As for what to do next turn finishing the workshop is a no brainer. Finishing the smelter and starting the request next turn wipes out our other actions but sets us up to start work as quickly as we can. Also ordering what needs ordered.
 
One thing that occurs to me from the Heart I don't think I saw anyone suggest would be a Rune of Growth. Given the way the Greedy One grew and mutated at the end that seems like it might be possible. Oversized weapons or armor that can turn a dwarf into ogre sized. Not saying its better than what people have been throwing around, but it did occur to me.

I mean, the sky's pretty much the limit with regards to what the troll heart could conceivably be used for. Its connotations to life and vitality are obvious and people have already talked at length about building a giant robot or making advancements in runic medicine, but an ever-beating heart is also basically an engine that runs without fuel. Do you think the local engineers would be interested in making a big ole perpetual motion machine and plonking it down in the middle of the foundry? Because I think those guys could probably come up with some pretty cool shit given access to an infinite supply of motive power.

The heart's connected to a lot of more offbeat (heh) concepts as well, like pressure or sound or rhythmic motion. More generally it's got this thing going where it rejects outside forces and operates by its own rules in a situation where it very obviously shouldn't be able to, which might be an idea worth exploring. Possibly you could pull on these themes of pulses and stubbornness and resistance to foreign influence to make, like, a big runic bell that disrupts magic whenever it's tolled?

At the end of the day, I think I'd be happy with most anything you could make out of the heart that isn't a personal weapon or amulet for Snorri. There's just a lot of diminishing returns there, since he'd have to replace one of his current pieces of bling with a new item that would probably be incrementally more powerful. Better to make something that benefits the hold at large imo.
 
infinite wind up power for clockwork golems? golems that run on wind up springs that are programmed to return to a docking station to be wound up again by a hand that is powered by the troll heart back in the main generator enclosure?
 
Ah, yet more fuel for my pet theory that gromril is the result of the ordinary rock in meteors somehow shedding its impurities and disorderly bits, which then manifest around the gromril as warpstone.
 
I mean, the sky's pretty much the limit with regards to what the troll heart could conceivably be used for. Its connotations to life and vitality are obvious and people have already talked at length about building a giant robot or making advancements in runic medicine, but an ever-beating heart is also basically an engine that runs without fuel. Do you think the local engineers would be interested in making a big ole perpetual motion machine and plonking it down in the middle of the foundry? Because I think those guys could probably come up with some pretty cool shit given access to an infinite supply of motive power.

The heart's connected to a lot of more offbeat (heh) concepts as well, like pressure or sound or rhythmic motion. More generally it's got this thing going where it rejects outside forces and operates by its own rules in a situation where it very obviously shouldn't be able to, which might be an idea worth exploring. Possibly you could pull on these themes of pulses and stubbornness and resistance to foreign influence to make, like, a big runic bell that disrupts magic whenever it's tolled?

At the end of the day, I think I'd be happy with most anything you could make out of the heart that isn't a personal weapon or amulet for Snorri. There's just a lot of diminishing returns there, since he'd have to replace one of his current pieces of bling with a new item that would probably be incrementally more powerful. Better to make something that benefits the hold at large imo.
There's an assumption in here that doesn't work, which is that effects for the hold are weighted more than personal equipment. See the comparison between incremental boosts for Snorri's wargear and a perpetual motion machine for the hold which is most definitely not incremental in effects on the hold. I can also guarantee that none of Snorri's stuff was made with Tier 5 materials by comparing his gear to the Rune List.

Anyway, I'm okay with either because they'll frankly all be cool as heck.
 
infinite wind up power for clockwork golems? golems that run on wind up springs that are programmed to return to a docking station to be wound up again by a hand that is powered by the troll heart back in the main generator enclosure?

Well, maybe? People talked about making a vast army of rune-powered killbots earlier in the thread and the author more or less shut them down because Snorri wouldn't countenance mass-producing identical arrays of master runes over and over on the same type of item. One conceivable way you could try to work around this problem is for Snorri to make one singular runic device, which is definitely a priceless work of art, and then leave the output of that work of art in the hands of a bunch of nerds who are all about standardisation and reproducible solutions. The end result doesn't have to be clockwork murder machines, you could apply it to deal with mundane things like pumping potable water into individual households or hauling heavy loads out of the mines. Or maybe there are runes for that sort of thing already, what would I know, but it's fun to speculate regardless.

There's an assumption in here that doesn't work, which is that effects for the hold are weighted more than personal equipment. See the comparison between incremental boosts for Snorri's wargear and a perpetual motion machine for the hold which is most definitely not incremental in effects on the hold. I can also guarantee that none of Snorri's stuff was made with Tier 5 materials by comparing his gear to the Rune List.

Anyway, I'm okay with either because they'll frankly all be cool as heck.
Idk, I think there really is a weighting there because you can only stamp so many runes onto a single dwarf before you run out of dwarf. I'm sure you could make an absolutely sick master rune out of the heart and put the rune on a talisman, but you'd necessarily have to give up one of the three talisman runes Snorri's already using. If you make something that operates independently of him, you don't have to deal with diminishing returns in the same way.

All the same, I accept it's extremely on brand for Snorri to make one of a kind magical artefacts and reserve his coolest shit for his own use. If all this ends with him making himself a ring of power or whatever, I suppose I wouldn't really be that worked up about it.
 
All the same, I accept it's extremely on brand for Snorri to make one of a kind magical artefacts and reserve his coolest shit for his own use. If all this ends with him making himself a ring of power or whatever, I suppose I wouldn't really be that worked up about it.
"What sort of Elgi do you take us for, wasting runes on flimsy rings? A proper Dawi work, if it's not an Az, hammer or armor would be a Gromril Belt Buckle! *grumble grumble*"
 
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