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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan Plate Polishing and Dragon Cloaks Prep
[X] Plan Doing what Needs to be Done

Not research first because I don't want to hold the apprentice
 
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MysteryCPU said:
This appears to be your standard way of interacting: anything that you don't agree with is fearmongering or guilt tripping or any other sort of manipulation rather than addressing the points themselves. It made participating in Loki Quest more unpleasant than it needed to be. Please, either stop it, or please stop quoting me or directly interacting with me. I don't want to see this very fun quest with its fine discussion go down the path that these types of assertions will cause.
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In regards to fear mongering you literally implied that putting off the Torque for even more turn was grudge worthy and are pretty much using emotion manipulation by saying things like this is for the hold and that we need to do this as soon as possible because if we don't it would lead to problems which is pretty much fear mongering since you are basing this heavily off assumptions and not facts to scare people to vote a certain way.

And note, it's not that I disagree with the vote but more the reasoning used. Example being that while I would prefer to get rune metal done this turn even i admit that there it a good point in that we can finish that next turn and that we did say we would do the torques. These would be legit reasons for pushing for it. The issue is when you start using fear mongering to push for your arguments since that is delibarately misleading people by acting like assumptions are facts and trying to scare people to vote the way you want.
 
[X] Plan Plate Polishing and Dragon Cloaks Prep

There's no rush for the torques, but meanwhile I'd like to finish the Rune Metal right after the Botherhood of Drom realized that we exist. Surprise them by showing we were way ahead of where they expected us to be.

@soulcake Were we going to get that letter from the Brotherhood of Drom this turn?
 
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Red Bovine said:
In regards to fear mongering you literally implied that putting off the Torque for even more turn was grudge worthy and are pretty much using emotion manipulation by saying things like this is for the hold and that we need to do this as soon as possible because if we don't it would lead to problems which is pretty much fear mongering since you are basing this heavily off assumptions and not facts to scare people to vote a certain way.

And note, it's not that I disagree with the vote but more the reasoning used. Example being that while I would prefer to get rune metal done this turn even i admit that there it a good point in that we can finish that next turn and that we did say we would do the torques. These would be legit reasons for pushing for it. The issue is when you start using fear mongering to push for your arguments since that is delibarately misleading people by acting like assumptions are facts and trying to scare people to vote the way you want.
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Basically similar reasoning from our prior interactions. Vague statements that people have turned assumptions stated into fearmongering facts, etc. Mildly amusing the first few times I read it applied to me and those you disagreed with.

Just repetitious now and is designed to put people on the backfoot without substantively addressing the points. A purely emotional, non-substantive attack that detracts from discussion.

Please don't quote my posts from now on.
 
Derpmind said:
[X] Plan Plate Polishing and Dragon Cloaks Prep

There's no rush for the torques, but meanwhile I'd like to finish the Rune Metal right after the Botherhood of Drom realized that we exist. Surprise them by showing we were way ahead of where they expected us to be.

@soulcake Were we going to get that letter from the Brotherhood of Drom this turn?
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Yeah, it'd be cool to show that we were WAY closer than they thought.
 
[X] Plan: I Want What I Want

I don´t think that anything bad would happen if we leave the torques for the next turn, but I am quite interested in picking the Griffon Plot Hook and I want to keep exploring Yorri´s Odd Places...
 
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I say we should keep the little one on for another two turns, just to make sure she won't get anyone looking down on her for being too young or foolhardy. Any objections?
 
Just imagine the BENEFITS with the Brotherhood if right after we got a little hint, we completed the path and completely surprised them all? That could have serious effects. Especially since we haven't even gotten the letter yet.

Waiting another turn and some might just thing we went whole hog on it, not that we were far down the path, and I don't like the idea of missing such an opportunity.

We can get the torques finished up by next turn.
 
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Silver719 said:
I say we should keep the little one on for another two turns, just to make sure she won't get anyone looking down on her for being too young or foolhardy. Any objections?
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I think a lot of ppl want the extra actions more than they want to hang on to Snerra, right now, since Snorri's got a deadline ahead of him and there's a lot of work to do if the commission is to come out as well as we want it to.
 
Honestly, I just personally find the griffin thing to be really fun, and don't really agree that there is much of a cost for waiting on the rune metal.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil
MysteryCPU said:
Basically similar reasoning from our prior interactions. Vague statements that people have turned assumptions stated into fearmongering facts, etc. Mildly amusing the first few times I read it applied to me and those you disagreed with.

Just repetitious now and is designed to put people on the backfoot without substantively addressing the points. A purely emotional, non-substantive attack that detracts from discussion.

Please don't quote my posts from now on.
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Vague statement nothing. You were blatantly trying to get people to vote your way with fear mongering using patently false information and assumptions.

1) The idea that Brokk would hold a Grudge, of all bloody things, over waiting an extra turn for the Torc's. Utterly false. Not only has it been explained that it's standard practice to include clauses in contracts with Runesmiths Incase they get a spike of inspiration that takes them months to years to workout while ignoring everything else but at this point Snorri has done exactly that and made use of such a clause already to no ill effect. Let's also not forget that we were busy fighting with an Ancestor God, something no Dwarf would ever hold against us. Ever. So in reality Brokk would only have been waiting for a two turns for these things. 20 years is nothing to a dwarf.

2) That the Griffins are needed as soon as possible. Also completely false. We just got done campaigning with The Valiant in our area of the world. Anything that could have constituted an actual threat to Krakka Drakk is very, VERY, dead. As such we should be secure from threats for a good long while.

3) Your belittling of those who think getting Rune Metal done as soon as possible so that we know if there is yet more we need to do to actually start producing Adamant, and thus be able to work around such an extra task as needed, as "Satisfying our curiosity" and not the highly important task that it is.

Either I'm right and you're an idiot that doesn't pay attention to the quest and decided to simply vomit what you thought was what sounded most convincing or Bovine is right and you were purposely fear mongering with false and or exaggerated information and assumptions. Which is it?
 
@UlseDovThur Again, retract your insults. If you want to have an actual discussion, fine.

But, I'm not going to discuss anything with someone who states that I am an idiot, inattentive, or that I am intentionally spreading false information. If you are unable to actually have a discussion without including insults or negative insinuations (though in your case, its flat out stated), then you are not worth discussing with.
 
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[X] Plan Plate Polishing and Dragon Cloaks Prep
[X] Plan Research First

The current frontrunner is fine, but personally I don't see much urgency with the torques, Brokk has it well in hand and they're purely supplemental at this point.

MysteryCPU said:
But, I'm not going to discuss anything with someone who states that I am an idiot, inattentive, or that I am intentionally spreading false information. If you are unable to actually have a discussion without including insults are negative insinuations (though in your case, its flat out stated), then you are not worth discussing with.
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Personally my issue with your post is this part

MysteryCPU said:
So, the question boils down to what is more important:

1. The sanctity of our own word (and prevent grudge formation) and the safety of our home

or

2. Fulfilling our curiosity immediately
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It's quite over the top and supported by little in the way of facts. If you had just cut this the rest of your post is pretty strongly supported based on facts and uses more reasonable language, so you'd not be getting the same kind of pushback I don't think.
 
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yeah, I get that the griffons are cool, and unique. But I just don't see them as essential, especially if we simply overload on them to make up for any perceived "lateness". It's not required for the defense of the Karak, which we have dedicated ample amounts of time to.

Adamant however, and the Rune that comes with it, is HUGE. Something that will affect all our creations for all time and affect our relationship with the Brotherhood of Dron.
 
MysteryCPU said:
@UlseDovThur Again, retract your insults. If you want to have an actual discussion, fine.

But, I'm not going to discuss anything with someone who states that I am an idiot, inattentive, or that I am intentionally spreading false information. If you are unable to actually have a discussion without including insults or negative insinuations (though in your case, its flat out stated), then you are not worth discussing with.
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Fine. You're not an idiot. Now please give a defense of what appears to me to be a case of blatant fear mongering.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Adamant however, and the Rune that comes with it, is HUGE. Something that will affect all our creations for all time and affect our relationship with the Brotherhood of Dron.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Just imagine the BENEFITS with the Brotherhood if right after we got a little hint, we completed the path and completely surprised them all? That could have serious effects. Especially since we haven't even gotten the letter yet.
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I am not saying that Adamant is not awesome and that it wouldn´t dramtically shape our relationship with the Brotherhood forever.
But I fail to see the difference that finishing the Rune this turn intead of doing it the next one, would have...

Dwarf research is supossed to be slow and meticulous, and no one would care if it took us 20 years intead of 10 to finish that research...
 
Thomasfoolery said:
It's quite over the top and supported by little in the way of facts. If you had just cut this the rest of your post is pretty strongly supported based on facts and uses more reasonable language, so you'd not be getting the same kind of pushback I don't think.
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Ah. Thank you for pointing that out. I ddin't mean for it to be over-the-top as much as it is a distillation for the way I analyzed the choice. I'll flesh out why I think this way.

1. Keeping our word (self-explanatory) and Grudge Formation.

So, am I saying that a Grudge is absolutely going to happen? Of course not. However, I can't say that it wouldn't happen if we put the project out and Brokk failed in his attempts to tame the Griffons. The QM is having Brokk roll for them, after all. Or that Brokk wouldn't think we have gone back on our word (even ignoring the 10 years we went fighting, it would be delaying a request by 20-30 years), which could be a basis for a grudge. Grudges are a bit of an amorphous concept, but the example I keep in mind when thinking of Dwarvish behavior is that there was a Grudge formed one time for a client shortchanging Dwarven craftsmen 2 pennies. There are gradations of grudges, after all.

2. Griffons and safety
While it is true that the troll threat is vastly lowered, we don't know if they are completely gone. Also, if the trolls are vastly gone...what will the Griffons who have been feasting on Trolls feast on? It is best to make some sort of communication with them/training so that they know that Dwarves will feed them and care for them and are not an alternative source of protein. Or that they may leave in search of more prey (losing a security possibility) Also, they are HUGE griffons that are a good source of security. This does seem to be time sensitive and could be affected by our actions, thus why I thought we need to do this now.

3. Research and curiosity
This was more a response to some players who simply stated that getting the next Research would be fun. Which is true, it is fun and interesting. But, I thought that was more a way of assuaging their curiosity immediately verus waiting a turn. I simply did not and do not see a harm delaying the immediate curiosity and did not, at the time, read anything that articulated beyond curiosity why we needed to do this immediately. I remain unpersuaded that picking this next turn will be a loss.

Does that address the issue?

Edit: QM ruling
 
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