Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
I thought the sort of consensus was to keep the Hammer safe at the hold unless it was a situation where Snorri would be forced into a last stand situation?

Other than that, are there any prerequisites from a research standpoint we need to or should do before attempting to build the dragon Gronti to improve the result? Things like another step in Movement of Things and Mind of Things?
 
We technically have everything. We would really, really like the next stage of Waystone mastery to be done, though. Otherwise, we ain't getting necessary adamant any time soon without compromising safety.
 
Khaos said:
I thought the sort of consensus was to keep the Hammer safe at the hold unless it was a situation where Snorri would be forced into a last stand situation?

Other than that, are there any prerequisites from a research standpoint we need to or should do before attempting to build the dragon Gronti to improve the result? Things like another step in Movement of Things and Mind of Things?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Kraka Drak is in a doomed last stand, Karstah is being sent to get the Hammer to Everpeak safely or die trying I think.

There are probably multiple things that would be useful for the Gronti, however the only necassary things where outlined in soulcakes update:
soulcake said:
--- Which will require x32 units of [T4] Elder Wyrm Blood. Put another way, at your current level of efficiency 6 units of Adamant will require 1 unit of blood. A perfectly reasonable, if expensive, trade that you can manage passively. Producing more bars from activating something like tapping a Waystone or if another Storm of Magic were to appear will require having the extra blood on hand.
-- Dedicated facilities, either within Khazagar or another location of your choosing, will be needed to not only store, but process the Adamant into the necessary forms. See vote.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think we do not currently have the facilities but I'm expecting that to be a freebee flavour thing or a single action like finding our workshop.
 
Last edited:
Dark as Silver said:
If Kraka Drak is in a doomed last stand, Karstah is being sent to get the Hammer to Everpeak safely or die trying I think.

There are probably multiple things that would be useful for the Gronti, however the only necassary things where outlined in soulcakes update:

I think we do not currently have the facilities but I'm expecting that to be a freebee flavour thing or a single action like finding our workshop.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's what I'm mostly interested about, the list of necessities is listed but I feel like neither Snorri nor Karsta are good enough at constructs for the build attempt yet.

Hence, what else should we do first.
 
CeBrudras said:
[] [Khazagar:] Ask them not to.

What has the actual benefit of the Engineering competitions been? Increasing cross-pollination between Runesmithing and Engineering, two areas that are linked, but in a until now underappreciated way.
What do you get if you transfer that benefit to the Metalworkers? Are they gonna introduce Runesmiths to smithing?

I think the competitions discussed now won't add much to Khazagar while taking up space and crowding out the valuable stuff that we already set up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

For one, increasing the quality of metalworking in the local area. Improve coordination between all three Guilds. We might not require it, but some Runesmiths might just be weaker in that area and could ask for help. It also expands the range of contacts between Runesmiths and their closest cousin Guild.

Also, what is the negative? Khazgar fosters competition and improves the quality of the smiths who enter its halls. Metalworking is a core part of Runesmithing why wouldn't we want their interest (which is unofficially already there)?
 
Khaos said:
That's what I'm mostly interested about, the list of necessities is listed but I feel like neither Snorri nor Karsta are good enough at constructs for the build attempt yet.

Hence, what else should we do first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are additional nice to haves... however Snorri's got a Trait for Constructs, he's a specialist in Engineering runes, he's a master of odd and esoteric runes and hes a Savant of Productivity, all of these are specifically related to the plan. If he's not ready now, there's nothing we can do over the next couple of decades to make him ready.

I assume whatever long term plan the Discordians have includes picking up as many of the low hanging fruit as possible however the most directly relevant Movement of things is locked behind Aneoquean, and an unknown number of Extra Sensory and Monolith Mastery it is basically out of reach for the Dragons schedule.
Apart from that, if you really want to stretch as much as we, consider Voikirium's recent plan, building other Engineering works (I've made some suggestions and Grumbler is cool although these designs should use limited Adamant)and understanding/compressing MRunes in order to try and grind out some trait and speciality experience.
 
Last edited:
For the Dragon build, the best we can do right now is horde Elder Dragon Blood, and probably start helping with the Fimir war in case we can kill more dragons for their blood. Or call in some favors for a dragon hunt. There also doesn't look like there will be a convenient storm of magic so we probably want to finish up the next level of monolith before we use the blood.

Personally, I'm waiting for Yorri to show up just to see the hammer, then probably use it on our head for asking for more monolith help
 
soulcake said:
A Gronti-Duraz made wholly of Adamant, meant to wield equipment made of the same metal. A body three times longer than a Bloodthirster was tall, and, if Dolgi's research fulfilled his lofty promises, actually capable of flight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A flying Skaudardrengi would make for a very effective rapid reaction force if/when we do Alric's Challenge for the instant communication. Even more so if it could be configured into a troop transport and carry much of the Hearth Guard with it.
 
Dark as Silver said:
To what extent is the local / master chapter a leveled hierarchy.
If I was king of Karak Mountain and wanted to setup a bunch of new guilds would I be sending invitations to Everpeak for new members and then they'd pass that around and eventually I'd have a guild that only answered to everpeak. Or would I send an invitation to the nearby Karak Cave and they'd send whoever they could knock free and I'd have a guild that sort of defers to Karak Cave which sort of defers to someone else in a chain that eventually ends in Everpeak?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dependent on the Guild really. Most Guilds are very flat organizationally, with the Master Chapter being the only authority with the power to found new Chapters and people needing to send messages to them. But there's a caveat there in that there could be Chapters of such significance that they have either won the official right to do the same, or are so influential that they have unofficial authority to do that as well and the Master Chapter is just rubber stamping it. A few Guilds do have that sort thing baked in to their charter officially, but its not tradition so its not common.

So for your example both and more are possible really.

Guild One may require you to submit a request to the Master Chapter and they pick a guy from their Hold to send to you.
Guild Two may do the same thing but the Master Chapter instead sends a message the nearest Chapter they trust and tell them to send a guy.
Guild Three has an Chapter nearby that won the official right to do the same thing from a negotiation three centuries prior so you either ask them instead or the Master Chapter passes that message along.
Guild Four may say they're like Guild One, but unofficially the Master Chapter didn't do it without first checking with that really influential Chapter nearby to see if this guy's okay to send/if they want to send their own guy.

It's like how Dwarf Nobility seems to have so few official ranks to it. But there's a lot of unofficial jockeying and context that stratifies those within that rank further. #Culture

Dwarf chain of authority looks and plays out in a very straightforward manner. In some cases it could actually play out that easily, but there could also be a lot of messy stuff going on in the back.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Look at the end of the day why is this worth being inconsistent? Why are the metalsmiths more deserving of collaboration than the engineers? It can't just be 'well we are more willing to take risks' because we have a lot of political pull in the Far North.Our choice will be interpreted in that light no matter what we say. Yeah we did not take the heir vote, but we did not stop being the Eldest Runelord in the Far North either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because we can change our mind and the situation has changed?

The engineer guilds came to us at a time when we can't do it, so we didn't. There's only inconsistencies if you assume that our stance can never change.

The idea that the Metalsmith guild deserves to be treated worse such that they're equals with the Engineer guild is fundamentally no different from our detractors who implied that the future generations dont' deserve more education resource because the old guard didn't use it.
 
Evillevi said:
The engineer guilds came to us at a time when we can't do it, so we didn't. There's only inconsistencies if you assume that our stance can never change.

The idea that the Metalsmith guild deserves to be treated worse such that they're equals with the Engineer guild is fundamentally no different from our detractors who implied that the future generations dont' deserve more education resource because the old guard didn't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dunno if i'm misunderstanding you, but Snorri's previous choice was to allow the engineering guild to organize without getting involved himself.
The best solution is to agree to the same terms. It keeps things consistent with what was given to the engineers, which is fair, so neither guild can feel slighted.
And by not getting personally involved, the runesmiths will see that Snorri is still just offering a secure facility for Runesmiths to find customers.
 
Luftwaffles27 said:
A flying Skaudardrengi would make for a very effective rapid reaction force if/when we do Alric's Challenge for the instant communication. Even more so if it could be configured into a troop transport and carry much of the Hearth Guard with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not really. For a couple of reasons.

Firstly he hasn't asked for a rapid reaction force. He asked for a communication method. A dragon would be significant overkill and too expensive to afford many of.

More simple smaller flying Gronti's have been debated about previously, consider reading around this post RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest) Fantasy - Users' Choice! which I think was my final word on it.

However generally I consider them to be a poor fit for the task.

While they are more secure than current method of some guys running letters around they're also more vulnerable than other proposed designs of the Rune Telegraph and the probable canon solution of a magic mirror.

They are basically highly limited by the need for a Master Runesmith with the ability to make non dwarf shaped Gronti's (we needed to be taught this by Valma) and possession of Dolgi's rune of Featherweight (only taught to family) or sufficient skill and knowledge to work Adamant thin enough to achieve appropriate lift to weight ratio or possibly both. And finally after all possible Runesmiths have been filtered down to meet these categories they can only work as fast as the Rule of Pride allows and at significant expense.
 
IronFist said:
Dunno if i'm misunderstanding you, but Snorri's previous choice was to allow the engineering guild to organize without getting involved himself.
The best solution is to agree to the same terms. It keeps things consistent with what was given to the engineers, which is fair, so neither guild can feel slighted.
And by not getting personally involved, the runesmiths will see that Snorri is still just offering a secure facility for Runesmiths to find customers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be honest given that the metal smith guild is only really useful for funding capstone size projects, my personal willingness to champion the cause has diminished.

Not because of inconsistencies with our position, but because that is AP hell to do anything useful with the MS guild. We have so mnay research that I really don't think it's worth it.

Dark as Silver said:
Not really. For a couple of reasons.

Firstly he hasn't asked for a rapid reaction force. He asked for a communication method. A dragon would be significant overkill and too expensive to afford many of.

More simple smaller flying Gronti's have been debated about previously, consider reading around this post RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest) Fantasy - Users' Choice! which I think was my final word on it.

However generally I consider them to be a poor fit for the task.

While they are more secure than current method of some guys running letters around they're also more vulnerable than other proposed designs of the Rune Telegraph and the probable canon solution of a magic mirror.

They are basically highly limited by the need for a Master Runesmith with the ability to make non dwarf shaped Gronti's (we needed to be taught this by Valma) and possession of Dolgi's rune of Featherweight (only taught to family) or sufficient skill and knowledge to work Adamant thin enough to achieve appropriate lift to weight ratio or possibly both. And finally after all possible Runesmiths have been filtered down to meet these categories they can only work as fast as the Rule of Pride allows and at significant expense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Slightly higher than the clouds Satellite flying gronti mirror communication system.

As long as we escape the cloud cover, we can start using mirrors at absurd distances.

Granted at this point it might be easier to have some form of Quantum linked mirrors than this absurdly expensive idea.
 
Evillevi said:
Slightly higher than the clouds Satellite flying gronti mirror communication system.

As long as we escape the cloud cover, we can start using mirrors at absurd distances.

Granted at this point it might be easier to have some form of Quantum linked mirrors than this absurdly expensive idea.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Isn't this basically just the Rune Telegraph, except with additional downsides?
 
Evillevi said:
Because we can change our mind and the situation has changed?

The engineer guilds came to us at a time when we can't do it, so we didn't. There's only inconsistencies if you assume that our stance can never change.

The idea that the Metalsmith guild deserves to be treated worse such that they're equals with the Engineer guild is fundamentally no different from our detractors who implied that the future generations dont' deserve more education resource because the old guard didn't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The thing is we can't explain why we could do one but not the other, which means that we would be irresponsibly showing political bias. It is one thing to enact change in a responsible and transparent manner, it is another to be fickle.
 
To describe it in terms more familar to a Diablo 2 player, Gold is cheap anyone can farm up more than you can practically use if you aren't a new player.
For Runesmiths who know the secret, Adamant is Stones of Jordan and they would never trade it for something that you could practically measure in terms of gold..
 
Evillevi said:
To be honest given that the metal smith guild is only really useful for funding capstone size projects, my personal willingness to champion the cause has diminished.

Not because of inconsistencies with our position, but because that is AP hell to do anything useful with the MS guild. We have so mnay research that I really don't think it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But it doesn't cost us AP? We're just approving a request to allow the MS Guild to officially sponsor competitions with the Khazgar Runesmiths. The crux of the matter is do we risk looking even more like a guild head by mandating that the Karkka Drakk Runesmiths will work with the MS Guild, do we make a decision consistent with how our guild operates and tell the MS Guild sure you can do that, or risk the wrath of a VERY FOUNDATIONAL guild by saying no with no further explanation when we have already approved the Engineers guild to do so.

This is a simple decision at the end of the day. Do we make a consistent policy of allowing other guilds the opportunity to sponsor competitions (one of our stated goal) and giving younger Runesmiths the opportunity to network and make contacts, or make ourselves look like a guild master by making a decision for what amounts to ALL Runesmiths in the Karak. I don't think anyone really wants to vote no to this.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Isn't this basically just the Rune Telegraph, except with additional downsides?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
kinda

Satelite systems are not as vulnerable to the Slann rearranging the mountains.IIRC Rune Telegraph ideas typically have targeting issues wrt when one object is moving or when the physical distance is occupied depending on the idea in question.

Namely because you can technically transmit data 360 degress around you with no interference and ping any receiver that moved unexpectedly.

However this is again an incredibly absurd set up that requires so many new things to be invented that Quantum paired mirrors are a simpler solution.
DragonParadox said:
The thing is we can't explain why we could do one but not the other, which means that we would be irresponsibly showing political bias. It is one thing to enact change in a responsible and transparent manner, it is another to be fickle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Leaving aside that I don't support helping the metalsmith guild now because it's not worth the AP required, the idea that we need to be fair is not something that we bound to do to begin with. Let alone that circumstance can change and non runesmith accept that as they literally don't live as long as Runesmith.

We had a similar discussion a long time ago with the Gromril Chainmail and AFAIK while some beards would be ruffled, most dawi care enough to escalate to a grudge for us choosing one side over the other for purely business matters. Granted if the Engineer guild is emotionally invested that would be a massive blowback, but I don't think I have seen evidence to that effect.
 
Evillevi said:
Leaving aside that I don't support helping the metalsmith guild now because it's not worth the AP required, the idea that we need to be fair is not something that we bound to do to begin with. Let alone that circumstance can change and non runesmith accept that as they literally don't live as long as Runesmith.

We had a similar discussion a long time ago with the Gromril Chainmail and AFAIK while some beards would be ruffled, most dawi care enough to escalate to a grudge for us choosing one side over the other for purely business matters. Granted if the Engineer guild is emotionally invested that would be a massive blowback, but I don't think I have seen evidence to that effect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Certainly, we are not bound by fairness anymore than any other form of morality, short of things that would make Snori go slayer, but I do not think we have ever transgressed on this scale against so many.
 
weeblypanda said:
But it doesn't cost us AP? We're just approving a request to allow the MS Guild to officially sponsor competitions with the Khazgar Runesmiths. The crux of the matter is do we risk looking even more like a guild head by mandating that the Karkka Drakk Runesmiths will work with the MS Guild, do we make a decision consistent with how our guild operates and tell the MS Guild sure you can do that, or risk the wrath of a VERY FOUNDATIONAL guild by saying no with no further explanation when we have already approved the Engineers guild to do so.

This is a simple decision at the end of the day. Do we make a consistent policy of allowing other guilds the opportunity to sponsor competitions (one of our stated goal) and giving younger Runesmiths the opportunity to network and make contacts, or make ourselves look like a guild master by making a decision for what amounts to ALL Runesmiths in the Karak. I don't think anyone really wants to vote no to this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Evilleviis imagining the future laid out that only they can see ahead of us as we turn the Runesmiths guild into a mere extension of our own will and desires. Of which coordinating with the Metalsmiths guild is merely the first step.
Thats the AP hell he's referring to, not just this vote.
 
weeblypanda said:
But it doesn't cost us AP? We're just approving a request to allow the MS Guild to officially sponsor competitions with the Khazgar Runesmiths
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Part of the request is to work with the MS guild in an official capacity to create a Tier 1 Competition with the combined bank roll of Snorri and teh MS guild. It's this that I'm talking about.

The main benefit to me isn't the increased attendence of having such a big compeition, but with the followup ability to further create Joint projects with the 3rd party guild

this however is not a practical choice if we don't want to spend our AP to nurture this relationship for a greater chance of 3rd party joint ventures.
 
When we condensed a Combo into a Master rune, will the Master rune have same level of power as the Combo or will it be weaker because it's one rune instead of three runes?
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top