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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Doomed Wombat said:
mmm fair, especially since Whitebeard studied under his dad, but we've never been Thungi's student at least not directly.

Which is pretty good evidence that this interpretation is almost all just Snorri doing this to himself.
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In which case it's still Thungi's responsibility since when he was doing his study of who do hand the riddle to he should have ascertained how the various candidates would view the concept of heirship and dealt with it in one of three ways:
  1. Disqualified them if he did not want to deal with it
  2. Lived up to his end of the bargain if he was fine with it
  3. Explained that this is not what he wanted if he wished for the dwarf, but not their assumptions of heirship
The only way Thungi comes out of this without moral fault in my eyes is if he never intended the bearer of the hammer to be his heir, which to be fair I think is more likely than not.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Hell we've already started this plan with Khazagar. What moving and shaking are you imagining that is greater than we can currently accomplish?
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interactions with the High King for a literal Snorri and Snorri joint venture. Whole fractions of Dawi society working on projects in addition to the areas of the north we have influence over

However being fair a lot of the preexisting plans are restricted to the North until we hit a critical mass simply to conserve AP at which point the entire Dawi Empire gets affected and that takes an unkown amount of time.

Going the Runeguild Heir things requires us to active do a Snorri whitebeard and play politics in the south in addition to the North. Not something that we can practically do alongside our Alchemy/Foreign relation plan if we want it done in a reasonable but still unknown amount of time
 
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DragonParadox said:
In which case it's still Thungi's responsibility since when he was doing his study of who do hand the riddle to he should have ascertained how the various candidates would view the concept of heirship and dealt with it in one of three ways:
  1. Disqualified them if he did not want to deal with it
  2. Lived up to his end of the bargain if he was fine with it
  3. Explained that this is not what he wanted if he wished for the dwarf, but not their assumptions of heirship
The only way Thungi comes out of this without moral fault in my eyes is if he never intended the bearer of the hammer to be his heir, which to be fair I think is more likely than not.
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Suddenly, it is now clear why none of Thungni's direct lineage either by blood or apprenticeship has bothered to even attempt becoming the heir. Old coot probably didn't explain a damn thing to them either and they're also fumbling around thinking he has some grand plan in the works behind the scenes (as always and expected of the Ancestors) to get everything back in order now that he's gone. Except, we know he doesn't, because we're it and we're also fumbling in the dark.
 
MagnificentMind said:
Suddenly, it is now clear why none of Thungni's direct lineage either by blood or apprenticeship has bothered to even attempt becoming the heir. Old coot probably didn't explain a damn thing to them either and they're also fumbling around thinking he has some grand plan in the works behind the scenes (as always and expected of the Ancestors) to get everything back in order now that he's gone. Except, we know he doesn't, because we're it and we're also fumbling in the dark.
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soulcake said:
"I fail to see how, you're clearly more than skilled enough to be a Runelord," Karstah continues.

"The issue isn't one of skill. But of mentality. Only Durin could be considered worthy enough to outright, but Durin's gone. So Thungni is making do."

You know Karstah is about to ask the obvious question, but a pointed look from you stops her from voicing it.
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...

Yeah can't argue with that.

The only potential sign of a successor to Durin is in this one Trial that Yorri only knows because we showed it to him. And still there's no actual sign on what he intends beyond X people are worth of the hammer.
 
@Dark as Silver

Yea we are doing the same as runelord.

As heir we would do more of it and with more influence, pretty simple.

I am immagining nothing because I do not have to, soul Will give US the option likes with kazdgar



About kazador, yea I only read the story so I totaly missed that, fair point.



@Doomed Wombat

I meant we do not have any proof the same person could do the test multiple times.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yori is a literal hermit who names his Gontri for company, it probably isn't a good idea to take his advice on anything social. There are better reasons to refuse IMO
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Duzzit said:
Yorri was also fine with us making a choice, and as he is who he is he knows what the riddle meant long before we even thought about it.
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thamuzz said:
This is not intended to sway votes, just something I thought of:
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Literally me just having a thought about a character reaction, not trying to sway the vote one way or the other. I don't think he'll be angry or upset or break ties, just that to him the answer would be obvious. Snorri is not Yorri, Yorri understands that.
 
I believe that this is all a test.
A test to see what we will do given the promise, the opportunity of gaining power and fame.

Like a beardling being offered a vase full of gold and silver. Do they take it, or pass it up?

[x] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
Noriginality said:
Can I just say how I love imagining how Kazador and Snorri's conversation is going, because this entire debate is prompted with Kazador casually asking us what now, and if we found or did something interesting, and Snorri is just staring at empty space as his consciousness/decision maker are debating over wether we want to change here tell him something that may causes a major upheaval and change the Dwarven Society or just be vague and say no, while Kazador and the rest are just standing there awkwardly, waiting for old Snorri to answer to what seems to be a simple question.


At this point after reading Soulcake's post and the new comments, I don't mind which vote wins, I just want to move on and have Snorri make something using his new hammer, although I gotta say, the constant use of the words (—Resist. Overcome. Endure) is making me think that this is just another test, maybe not for the hammer but for something else entirely unrelated to it, after all to get the hammer we passed through tempting riches and materials, then tested on what dwarves are to us with the whole Elder, Beardling, Warrior and Matron thing, and now we have this large temptaion that is being the Heir.
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I feel like Snorri should make something with the Dawi combo for thematic reasons.
 
3285-ATL said:
I believe that this is all a test.
A test to see what we will do given the promise, the opportunity of gaining power and fame.

Like a beardling being offered a vase full of gold and silver. Do they take it, or pass it up?
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THat's I think a purely wrong take.

Thungni we already know is gone. There is no one and nothing left as checks.

Whether it's the us dodging responsibility or pursuing a selfish goal is ours to decide as it our right.
 
Fixing my vote

[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
thamuzz said:
I hadn't actually considered that, but yes, that adds a distinctly practical motivation to making a Dawi combo (talisman?). I've just seen most of the discussion be about reforging Snorri's axe or things like that.
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I just proposed that because it was an interesting idea. But yeah, talisman with either Dawi Combo or Master Rune of that combo so that we can finally finish the set of ours...
 
DragonParadox said:
In which case it's still Thungi's responsibility since when he was doing his study of who do hand the riddle to he should have ascertained how the various candidates would view the concept of heirship and dealt with it in one of three ways:
  1. Disqualified them if he did not want to deal with it
  2. Lived up to his end of the bargain if he was fine with it
  3. Explained that this is not what he wanted if he wished for the dwarf, but not their assumptions of heirship
The only way Thungi comes out of this without moral fault in my eyes is if he never intended the bearer of the hammer to be his heir, which to be fair I think is more likely than not.
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I do think he'd be unlikely to say anything either way since I'm getting the feeling he's not one to say much. Dude created a mystery cult intentionally or no.
 
thamuzz said:
I hadn't actually considered that, but yes, that adds a distinctly practical motivation to making a Dawi combo (talisman?). I've just seen most of the discussion be about reforging Snorri's axe or things like that.
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well, there are other things we're making before the new Dawi talisman, but it's probably safe to say that the Axe replacement plans are off the table.
We have KKR now.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
Whitebeard does not count because he was chosen...I think. It was a while so I don't exactly remember.

I think many people are afraid of claiming an heirdom because a) they are afraid that we need to be like Thungi (which Snorri only thinks that and I already see others smacking his head to get that idea off his head) and b) because they are afraid we will be put in politics even more. I see that taking a claim will smoother some things for us while creating other challenges for us to deal with. Resist. Overcome. Endure. That is the Dawi way and we will get us through those challenges.
 
Noriginality said:
Can I just say how I love imagining how Kazador and Snorri's conversation is going, because this entire debate is prompted with Kazador casually asking us what now, and if we found or did something interesting, and Snorri is just staring at empty space as his consciousness/decision maker are debating over wether we want to change here tell him something that may causes a major upheaval and change the Dwarven Society or just be vague and say no, while Kazador and the rest are just standing there awkwardly, waiting for old Snorri to answer to what seems to be a simple question.


At this point after reading Soulcake's post and the new comments, I don't mind which vote wins, I just want to move on and have Snorri make something using his new hammer, although I gotta say, the constant use of the words (—Resist. Overcome. Endure) is making me think that this is just another test, maybe not for the hammer but for something else entirely unrelated to it, after all to get the hammer we passed through tempting riches and materials, then tested on what dwarves are to us with the whole Elder, Beardling, Warrior and Matron thing, and now we have this large temptaion that is being the Heir.
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Fortunately I have hacked soulcake's computer and stolen the draft of Kazador quest
soulcake said:
"What then Lord Klausson, are you going to do? Was that hammer the only prize you claimed from that place? Aside from your observations too, obviously."

Lord Klausson opens his mouth to respond, then freezes.

After a moment the Runesmith following him glances around to look.
"I'm sorry, he does this some times." She said as a drop of drool began to leak out of Klausson's mouth. "Just wait until his eyelids stop twitching, and he'll be done thinking." apparently unbothered by her master's sudden stroke.

"I see..."

"So... Hows the weather in Karak Virn?"

[ ] Dunno, its fine inside the mountain.
[ ] Awful, as usual.
[ ] Splendid weather for hunting beastmen.
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Evillevi said:
interactions with the High King for a literal Snorri and Snorri joint venture. Whole fractions of Dawi society working on projects in addition to the areas of the north we have influence over

However being fair a lot of the preexisting plans are restricted to the North until we hit a critical mass simply to conserve AP at which point the entire Dawi Empire gets affected.

Going the Runeguild Heir things requires us to active do a Snorri whitebeard and play politics in the south in addition to the North. Not something that we can practically do alongside our Alchemy/Foreign relation plan if we want it done in a reasonable time
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See this is that guildmaster shit that worries me again. We can't make runesmiths do specific jobs that is very explicitly a key difference between runesmiths and other more traditional guilds.
soulcake said:
Every Runesmith would pay dues to the Guild when getting paid for a commission, the Guild itself would possess certain pieces of rare/complex equipment that it lets members use. The Guild would be headed by a Guildmaster who would be able to banish members/censure their actions and basically control them officially through hard guidelines of authority as opposed to unofficially as is the case with Runesmiths. In exchange, the Guild is able to give them steady work by serving as a middleman in some transactions with other organizations or with the Royal Clan and would back them up if outside forces tried anything.

Like if you were in another Craftguild Snorri would be receiving requests from his Guildmaster to do this job or that, and he couldn't refuse. His allegiance is to the Guild and only his Clan's supersedes it (with his Hold being somewhat in a grey area if you're wondering.)

The Runesmiths follow some of the same tenets as other Craftguilds, sometimes completely, sometimes loosely, but they are nowhere near as bound as say an Engineer is. On the other hand, they're pretty much without any support structure career-wise outside of their former Master, fellow apprentices and any connections they may have made personally.
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So I do worry what you're imagining here.
 
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