RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Franksson · Jun 11, 2022

Snorry whf 8th rules

━<><><>< Snorry Klausson ><><><>━

Eldest runelord of the north

point cost 500.

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld
Snorry	3	6	4	4	8	3	3	4	9
Mhorni	3	6	4	5	8	4	3	4	9

TROOP TYPE: Infantry character (Snorry), Monstrous infantry character (Mhorni).
SPECIAL RULES: Golden age Grudge, Relentless, Rune Lore (only Snorry), Shield Wall, Resolute,Magic resistance (2).

Winds Denied: All enemies spells have a -2 to their casting roll if Snorry isn't fleeing.

Two runic weapons!: Snorry is wielding two magic weapons, you have to declare how many attack are you going to use with them and gain the benefit of the weapon for evry attak, you must alway use at least one attak with each weapon.

Mhorni,elemental guard: Mhorni is a separate Character that must always be part of Snorry unit, he benefits of all the magic items that Snorry is benefitting from, any effect that would target Snorry also targets Mhorni, Mhorni can't declare a challenge but can accept one.
If Snorry were to die or Skarrenbakraz destroyed Mhorni is destroyed.

This Far and not further!: Snorry and his unit can reroll all leadership test.

MAGIC ITEMS:
Zharrgal (Magic Weapon)
Attacks done with this weapon have strength 10 and the Flaming Attacks special rule; for any succesfull hit roll destroy a random magic item owned by the target of the attack on a 4+.
The user can make a single breath weapon attack with strength 5 that count as magical and has the Flaming Attacks special rule.
Any foes charging a unit including this weapon subtract D6" from their charge distance (roll after their charge distance has been determined, (this ability does not stack with the rune of slowness or similar effects).
If the enemy fails to make contact, all the rules for failed charges apply.

Barak Azamar (Magic Armour)
This armour gives: +3 thougthnes (already included), armour save of 2+, 2+ ward save against flaming attack, regeneration (5+).
If playng storm of magic all arcane fulcrums owned by the dwarf player count as two to estabilish who controlls more arcane fulcrums.

Skarrenbakraz (Magic Banner)
This banner confers a Ward save (5+) against Wounds caused by shooting attacks and all magic missiles to any friendly units within 6" of the bearer and the ablity to reroll all hit roll of 1 in close combat to all friendly units within 6".
At the start of the combact phase evry model in base contact with the bearers suffers a strengt five hit, if Snorry is in a unit with someone that isn't Mhorni the strengt become four.
The bearer has a Ward save (4+).

The Eye of the Ancestors (Enchanted Item)
All stay in play spell that Snorry can see are automaticaly dispelled on a 2+, once per game nominate a magic object whose bearer Snorry can see, destroy the item on a 4+.

Rune axe (Magic Weapon)
Attacks made with this weapon have: armor piercing, +1 to hit and wound a model with daemonic special rule, +1 attack (already included).

Wardstones (Talisman)
Snorry has a 2+ ward save against the killing blow and heroic killing blow special rules.

Ruby and Diamond Amulet (Talisman)
This talisman has two runes of spellbreaking and gives a ward save of 6, if Snorry manages to dispell an otherwise succesfull enemy spell he can reroll ward saves of one.

Golden age grudge is supposed to be part of the quest fanmade armybook if I am goin to make it, it works like ancestral grudge but skaven and orcs and goblin aren't automaticaly hated, daemon are.

@soulcake
omake for omake throne

I did say I was working on this (did your forgot?), it was months ago but I was hoping we would have seen Skarrenbakraz in action by now and I would have been able to be more precise on what exactly it does, similar problem emerges with the eye, I will edit both of them once we have a clearer idea.
I did my best to make Snorry compatible with 8th ed design choices of almost never give immunity to something and using already present rules instead of making up new ones, the keywords scattered on the text should be all correct and make him compatible with the book.
The effects of the runes when possible were taken strigth up from the army book, when I had to make them up I tried using effect of older or newer editions.
I started with the profile of the normal runelord.
Zharrgal was tricky, in the sense that it had to be almost all made up, luckly the hammer of Kragg the grim was there, there is a rune that destroy a single weapon on a 2+ after a hit, I figured a 4+ for evry hit was fair enoug, and Snorry doesn't just break weapon with this in quest, the flaming was at strength 4, I increased it when I remembered Snorry used it to melt minotaurs, -d6 charge because he can make obstacles on the way.
Barak Azamar, normal gromril armour is a 4+, I increased it twice because rune of stone and Adamant, gave regen because the master rune, gave 2+ ward against flaming because lava blood, of the +3 to thougthness, well rune of fortitudes gives a +1 and the +2 comes from the combo, the fulcrum bits is to represent all the synergy the set has with the storm of magic.
Skarrenbakraz, all the wards came from the Master rune of Grugni, rune of fury was made up, a plus one attak unit wise was way to much so I gave a weaker eternal hatred rulewise, the ability to cast innate bound spell is very strong and now Snorry is de facto a mobile anvil of doom, but keep in mind bound spell only sucks, in 8ed dispelling a bound spell is almost easier than it is to cast.
The rune axe and the wardstones were easy, all the runes are copy from 8ed.
I know the amulet is a strong antimagic object just do not remember the runes.
So TT wise Snorry is a massive no you don't to your opponent magic phase and with Mhorni can beat up anything whilst surviving easly, he only losses decisevly against Hellebron and Malekit, and they eye could very well prevent that.
Nice trick, Mhorni also gest to use the eye and the breath weapon.
Is 500 points because he wouldn't be legaly playable otherwise and can be easly avoided with his movement of 3, his ranged attack aren't game winning and eats up all the lord and heroes point allowance, so you simply beat anything else that isn't Snorry and his unit or you mistcast a pit of shades agains him and you kill him 50% ot the times.
Funnly enough he doesnt give armour piercing to his unit so as far as buf goes he is WORSE than a normal runesmith, he compensate by basicaly winning evry figth.

Added the rules for the talisman now that Dark as Silver managed to found the runes that make up his combo. Made Mhorni mostrous infantry and corrected Skarrenbakraz effect now that I can see what it does, added the table for the stat.

I hope you all like it.
If you have any sugestion or advice please you are welcome.

Dragonofelder · Jun 11, 2022

I like it, but:

Franksson said:
The bearer can cast all spell of the lore of Heavens as innate bound spell.

Er, what? How?

Franksson · Jun 11, 2022

In 8ed the anvil of doom works like that, so instead of making up 3 or 4 different micro spell (like the anvil) i tought using prewritten material was more elegant, lore of heavens because you know, storm.
I gave all of them because I do not have the list rigth now and so saing stuff like this spell yes and this one no seemed quite atrocious, harmonic convergence is probably going to get removed from the list of castable ones.
Yea I agree isn't the nicest of implements but traslating Skarrenbakraz is hard.
Keep in mind innate bound spell can't really be mistcasted (you just end the magic phase if you do) so is very safe, the innate part is important because hoterwise Skarrenbakraz could break evrytime it is used.

CanYouMeme · Jun 11, 2022

Franksson said:
@CanYouMeme I do not think that a rune in a weapon would allow the gronti the ability to fly, it would probably have to be in the body, or the armour or a talisman or a banner, since you know the banner are the wings, sure we will have to found suck a rune, but you know it can be researched.

I know. I said that I was skeptical it would work in the same post IIRC

Dark as Silver said:
Do you have a particular argument for why any of the items on this Gronti are especially likely to combo? Particularly in a way that enables the regeneration function?
To be clear though, no I don't think it would downgrade the gronti. I think Snorri's durability would be a downgrade to the Gronti. Therefore anything that the Rune could offer would be a marginal increase at best. Wheras a offensive or antimagic focused armour would be more significant improvements on areas that the Gronti is potentially lacking.
Seriously, you mentioned you had some swarm worries, please consider the Offensive option: Inferno (more potent pyrestrike, surrounds the user with flames on command), embers (attacks are responded too by spraying fire at, should synergise with inferno to be far more potent) , flameward (covered by heatproof flim, this one is more of a strech I'm looking to reduce any negative of regularly fireing off the effect and hopefully getting a permenant toggle on). How would a swarm possibly get through that?

Yeah you do have an anti magic banner. And I still believe that even without armour or Mountainsoul it would be more threatened by magic than it would be by physical attacks.

Don't underestimate the physical durability of Gronti's, Snorri couldn't think about anything that could break it when we where just considering plating it with Adamant, now the design is pure Adamant.

Which creates the problem of it being damn near impossible to repair without a built-in repair effect. First you need Adamant, which requires master rune bullshit. Then you need a top-notch Runelord, even as Runelords go, with the appropriate runic infrastructure to even work the Adamant. Then that Runelord, on top of being top-notch in general, needs to know enough about metalsmithing, engineering, and Gronti runes specifically to be able to repair stuff without fucking anything up.

This is Warhammer Fantasy; I'm founding my plan on the idea that it's going to need heavy repair at some point no matter how it gets built. Thus, ensuring that it's never flat-out destroyed and needs as little as possible to get put back together. Thus, full adamant with self repair.

There's other elements I'm not mentioning for the sake of simplicity, but all that is why both of the secondary Gronti runes are the ones that do precision construction and basic maintenance with no dwarf interference. And why I want a self-repair function. Ultimately I don't really care how it's done, so long as it is done without anything exploding or whatever. I don't want to make sacrifices in other areas I've already written, but will if it's necessary.

Note that what I just wrote is an argument against full adamant construction. I know. But I'm aiming for this Gronti being the literal best it can possibly be, a Wonder like no other, so that's an obstacle I'm willing to wrestle with.

I don't know what you and Cursix wrote on the topic of Mountainsouled and Deep Magic, because I didn't see any of that when I was scrolling back through the pages to see what people's thoughts were on Gronti making. I didn't cover every single page between the QM's capstone vote and my initial idea, so I probably missed it.

I haven't gotten to the point of figuring out how the ITEMS would combo, because I'm still working on figuring out the individual runic arrays - walk before you can run, and all that, and so far our interactions prove that a smart idea. My thoughts on why those runic arrays for the individual items would combo are laid out in the original post and my follow-on to Luxon. I'm choosing runic arrays that I think would be complementary to each other and thus have a high likelihood of doing a combo breaker, but what that combo is actually going to be or even exists at all is not something I'm ruminating on beyond "something good for the Dawi in general and Khazagar in particular."

Because at the end of the day, QM fiat will validate or invalidate it no matter what anyone else thinks.

Concerning why I think Mountainsouled specifically would create a self-repair effect, I'm basing it off of the way it transmutes Snorri's physical makeup. It simultaneously transforms his flesh into something new, and apparently creates more material ex nihilo to repair injuries. Whether the material is actually conjured ex nihilo in totality or transmuted/teleported in from elsewhere is currently irrelevant, but that might change in future circumstances. Considering
*that the few other runes of repair don't replace intended material with unintended material
*the Runes of Waking & Forged Limb can apparently perfectly match what the Dawi want out of them, so long as the structure is correct
*Snorri goes back to being flesh and blood Dawi when he takes off the armor, instead of shattering his newly rock body or some other sort of secondary fuckery
*there is no particular need for any sort of additional loyalty or logic programming with standard Gronti - presumably that gets injected via the rites of runesmithing

I think it logical that, whatever the actual mechanism may be, runes come with a certain amount of handwaving to tailor their effects to what the Dawi think is best so long as the rune is properly applied in the first place. I have more, but let's see if that falls apart first.

Dark as Silver said:
How about you lay out the plan for if she doesn't want her name attached to this incredibly radical and politically charged movement and she isn't willing to help, and what you think it would be plausible to offer to get her involved...

...
I already did all that. I even laid it out tacitly, though I'll take the time to be explicit.

If she doesn't want to be involved, that's that. Snorri doesn't force the issue and I either adjust my plan accordingly or we take some extra time to research it on our own.

Incentives for collaborating on the Master Rune?
*She gets a Master Rune with her name on it, which is a huge status boost regardless of whether or not she works on the Capstone with Snorri. Even more so if we vote to pay her to do it on her own time. And if she makes the Rune/helps us make it and doesn't want us to use it for this Gronti, see above.

*Note that the entirety of my plan can and be and currently is bankrolled by Snorri and Snorri alone, with some time allowed for more adamant. So Snorri offers to bankroll the entire testing and building process so it costs Lorna, and anyone else involved, nothing but time to make.

*Lorna has a standing rating of 9/10 towards Snorri currently, and IIRC questors voted to put her name out for promotion to Runelord. So presumably she is already willing to consider hefty requests.

*We can offer another rune, ingredients, and/or book trade immediately.

*Anything else falls outside the purview of Runework and enters the realm of power, money, and wealth in general. So when we have a tentative final plan for the Gronti worked out, and thus decide whether or not we even need/want a Dragonform rune in the first place, we do what I've been advocating for from the very first post I made on this topic; treat Lorna as an equal with no strings attached, and negotiate to find out what if anything she wants.

And the same again for any other Runelords.

EDIT: On a separate but related topic, when I first wrote the whole "treat as equals" bit, it never even occurred to me that what I'm writing out in Ramble 2 would not be included in the final plan. Dunno what that says about anyone involved, myself included, but it was odd enough I thought it worth writing out.

Dark as Silver · Jun 11, 2022

kinglugia said:
We have a sample courtesy of Snerra, when we research it we will.

We've also had the Rune of Fate, Rune of Repair and a lot of other runes we could research. The campus is on a timeline and I don't think you'll get us to fit MThungni on it.

CanYouMeme said:
I don't know what you and Cursix wrote on the topic of Mountainsouled and Deep Magic, because I didn't see any of that when I was scrolling back through the pages to see what people's thoughts were on Gronti making. I didn't cover every single page between the QM's capstone vote and my initial idea, so I probably missed it.

I was talking about the posts after my response...
If I was going to direct you back deep into the thread I'd have searched it to offer a quote.

The need to repair is a new topic. I'm pretty confident that between Adamants durability it will very rarely need to be repaired and it wouldn't take a Runesmith equal to Snorri, because if it took Snorri to repair it theres something wrong with the Rune and a self repair function wouldn't be able to help it because the runes have failed.
This isn't strictly an argument for Mountainsouled though because if we only care about the regen then we could probably make a variant of the combo that has a stronger healing factor, say Unyielding Valaya Fortitude.

CanYouMeme said:
If she doesn't want to be involved, that's that. Snorri doesn't force the issue and I either adjust my plan accordingly or we take some extra time to research it on our own.

Okay great, and if she doesn't want to be involved, how much work do you think this research is going to need?

CanYouMeme · Jun 11, 2022

Dark as Silver said:
We've also had the Rune of Fate, Rune of Repair and a lot of other runes we could research. The campus is on a timeline and I don't think you'll get us to fit MThungni on it.

I was talking about the posts after my response...
If I was going to direct you back deep into the thread I'd have searched it to offer a quote.

The need to repair is a new topic. I'm pretty confident that between Adamants durability it will very rarely need to be repaired and it wouldn't take a Runesmith equal to Snorri, because if it took Snorri to repair it theres something wrong with the Rune and a self repair function wouldn't be able to help it because the runes have failed.
This isn't strictly an argument for Mountainsouled though because if we only care about the regen then we could probably make a variant of the combo that has a stronger healing factor, say Unyielding Valaya Fortitude.

Okay great, and if she doesn't want to be involved, how much work do you think this research is going to need?

Well, when I've got a final draft of the plan worked out I'll post it and see if that's correct.

I've been worshiping-the-porcelain-throne sick the past couple of days and have been mostly responding to alerts only. I'll swing back when I'm not blasting things out of both ends and see if there's something in your back-and-forth that hasn't been covered before I respond to it. Plus, you having the courtesy to link old-but-relevant posts is unusual and not something I generally factor into my side of a discussion.

I would be willing to go with the armor runic combo you've listed. I'll edit that in later after I've looked over your stuff.

I don't like giving specific numbers for plans when the QM hasn't signed off on it; it tends to fuck everything up when the time-table you're working out is suddenly rendered irrelevant.

But so long as folks don't take a guesstimation as hard data for planning, the base action time is probably on the order of 10-15 actions worth, and expenditure of Draconic materials plus whatever is used for the prototyping. And given that both Khazagar and the Gronti we're discussing are things I'm planning to take multiple turns each, letting Snorri and whoever else is interested take their time with it is no great hindrance.

Dark as Silver · Jun 11, 2022

CanYouMeme said:
Plus, you having the courtesy to link old-but-relevant posts is unusual and not something I generally factor into my side of a discussion.

TBH it's less courtesy and more that I need to check I'm not misremembering so while I'm looking them up to confirm it isn't actually any extra work to quote it.
Get well soon.

Cursix · Jun 11, 2022

Dark as Silver said:
We've also had the Rune of Fate, Rune of Repair and a lot of other runes we could research. The campus is on a timeline and I don't think you'll get us to fit MThungni on it.

MThungni is actually fairly high on the research priorities I think. Especially if the runesmith/thungni effigy gronti wins the capstone plan. We have like 4-6 turns before we should move on to actually making the gronti I believe? 2 full turns need to be spent on the runehouse to make sure that's finished ASAP, akazit/rune metal and movement of things are the immediate research priorities before then probably taking up the other two bare minimum spare turns, but we may have a little bit of space for Thungni.

Idk, depends exactly how many turns the gronti gets put off. Can't leave it too long after the runehouse creation, I'd prefer to have it done the turn/turn after it finishes, but we'll see how things go. I think Soul is setting things up for Nain to sort out Repair (if we need it) and Dolgi Flight (if the dragon wins) thankfully.

Voikirium · Jun 12, 2022

As a personal project, I took up the task of creating variants for multiple-copy runes for banners, talismans, and engineering.

Here are the fruits of my labor-

Rune of Lethargy: a single copy acts like a mildly weaker form of the Rune of Slowness by draining the wakefulness and enthusiasm from the foe. A second copy intensifies the effect, and furthermore meddles with their reflexes making the foe easier to fight. A third copy and the enemy becomes so weakened and exhausted that even upon deciding to flee, they will be incapable of really disengaging even as they try to run.
Rune of Sluggishness: One copy is equivalent to the Rune of Slowness by presenting a field that actively slows down the enemy by weighing down their armor. A second copy and the gaps, weak-points and flaws in the enemy armor become more noticeable for so slow is the enemy in moving and shifting, enough that they can be taken advantage of even in the heat of battle. Three copies and the enemy becomes so slowed that their blows become shiftable, movable, in a way they should not be.
Rune of Indifference: A single copy expresses itself as a mildly stronger Rune of Slowness, meddling with the focus and clarity of the opponent. Two copies and their shots are meddled with and dulled as the effect spread, and bolt and bullet, arrow and stone fall short of where they should in many cases. Three and the enemy is left listless, weakened and poor upon the field unless someone restores their concentration, a figure mighty enough to turn away the might of the Rune.
Master Rune of Apathy: Born upon talismans, this rune creates a void of feeling and motivation when its bearer strikes a foe, waiting for the slightest lapse in concentration to fill them with, well, apathy. The kind of apathy that leaves them wide open for even further attacks. Though it should be noted that the effect will fade quickly after that slight window of opportunity.

(Tabletop effects in my mind:

1 Copy: Subtract D6 from charge distance (all)
2 Copies: -1 WS from enemies (Lethargy), +1 AP for units under its effect (Sluggishness), -1 To hit for ranged attacks (Indifference)
3 Copies: Must remain in close contact with Dwarfs after failed Break Test (Lethargy), Reroll x Successful to hit rolls (Sluggishness), Gain same effect as fear (Indifference)
Apathy: D3 Multiwound)

Rune of Holding: A single copy acts as a mildly weaker form of the Rune of Warding by projecting a mystical force that can grab and hold enemy attacks though the precision required is difficult. A second concentrates and allows the bearer to "grab and yank" mystical constructs, that is to say spells, and so keep them at bays. A third and the bearer can unleash a fairly mild force blast around his whole body, not enough to harm anything that might join the field of battle but able to knock shots off course, as well as cutting through pressure waves from explosive artillery.
Rune of Rebut: A single copy acts as an equal to the Rune of Warding by creating an energy field around the Dwarf's arm that can arrest motion from nearly anything though it requires endurance. On a second copy, the energy field can become a blade able to shear through light armor. On a third the blade weakens the enemy with particularly painful--if not-even-debilitating--burns left behind to distract them from the fight unless they are willful or strong.
Rune of Repulsion: One copy acts as a mildly stronger form of the Rune of Warding, actively repelling enemy blows like a positive magnet against a positive magnet. With two copies the force become so great that the enemy becomes notably slowed, slow enough that the dwarfs may strike first. The third and the force that presses gains a mental component that leads the enemy off course and into the wild blue yonder.
Master Rune of Untouchability: A rune that must be carried on a banner, it offers the protection of the Runesmith who crafted it, guarding against the evils of the world; and knowing this, the Dwarfs that fight under it fight all the harder and with greater fury, knowing the Ancestors watch.

(Tabletop mechanics in my mind-

1 Copy: 6+ Ward Save (all)
2 Copies: May attempt to dispel enemy with no bonuses -Or- +1/2 to dispel against spells, depending on whether the bearer may or may not already attempt to dispel (Holding), Enemy suffers a Strength 4 attack on successful Ward Save in close combat (Rebut), ASL (Repulsion)
3 Copies: 4+ Ward Save against ranged shots (Holding), on successful Ward Save enemy takes T Test and on failure loses 1 Weapon Skill per test (Rebut), On successful Ward Save enemy units within X distance gain Random Movement (Repulsion)
Untouchability: 6+ Ward Save for all friendlies within X distance, gain Frenzy)

Rune of Perforation: An engineering Rune, a singular copy acts like a mildly weaker form of the Rune of Penetrating. Two copies and the wounds it inflicts grow yet more debilitating as the entry wound grows wider as does the exit.
Rune of Skewering: A single copy of the Rune acts like the Rune of Penetrating. A second copy makes the ammunition more accurate both in the firing and as it makes its way through the enemy's body, seeming to shift to move to hit the most painful and vital spots.
Rune of Burrowing: A single copy acts like a mildly stronger form of the Rune of Burrowing. A second copy allows ammunition to burrow through magic as well, cutting through protective enchantment and cursed armor like so much parchment before a sword.
Master Rune of Piercing: A bloody, brutal Weapon Rune that acts to rend through flesh to weaken and cripple any foe as tendon and muscle are sliced.

(Tabletop Mechanics in my mind-

1 Copy: Increases shot strength by 1
2 Copies: -1T (Perforation), Reroll failed to hit (Skewering), Destroy magic items and dispel buff spells (Burrowing)
Piercing: Reduce strength on successful To Wound by 1 to a minimum of 1)

The fruits of the labor of the Stringent Pride Runelords working reasonably together (by, it must be kept in mind, Dwarf standards), each can act as a replacement for a single copy of a certain other Rune solving the somewhat self-imposed problem, expresses itself differently from the usual forms and therefore adds versatility to a Dwarf's arsenal, and the study required to produce them ended in new Master Runes, itself a very worthy thing.
--
And with that there probably won't be new runes from me for a while.

(By which I mean at least five days because I have a problem)

Luxon · Jun 12, 2022

Because people have been doing Gronti discussions recently.

Brana Gronti 2.0 revives via necromancy.

2nd Draft Brana Gronti Bloodthirster sized full adamant gronti.

Willing to accept any feedback.

Ethos
Battle
The Items
Sets (Speculative)
Upgrades

Ethos
The true symbol to represent reference to our hold. The Brana have stood alongside us through thick and thin, they have taken up many of the facets of our culture and revel in the names we gave them.
Brana gronti intends to exist as one more such reminder, one more tradition they have been brought into. The immortalising of their ancestors in stone. Or adamant in this case.
An eternal guardian in the form of those who stood by us in the Great Incursion and whose storm we shelter under even to this day.
Clever dark birds, they have all the associations for a wise and intelligent creature to get the associations from dwarves.
Thungni created a Torque for the King of The Sky. Both the first such piece created for a non-dwarf. And a new piece of equipment, not used previously by dwarves as acceptable to create.

Battle
It rises up into the clouds, drinking magic from the swirling storm above Kraka Drakk, and then falls. Wherever the line needs it, as thunderbolts crashing down to tear apart anything in its path.
And in its wake, the storm descends, pulled down alongside it to ravage the enemy and empower the defenders wherever it fights.
From the first line of defence, to the last, it is designed to harry and slaughter the enemy across every meter of ground they take. That they feel that any offensive could be met by its charge without being able to pin down its location anywhere.

The Items
Brana (Gronti) (Master Rune of Waking (Non dwarf body plan), Rune of featherweight, Rune of impact.)
So Gronti Runes – Waking because needed, Featherweight so that it is easier to fly, impact to both give it a kick during liftoff like how we fired ourselves against the Greedy Troll, and to maintain impact when crashing down on targets.
Aesthetic: A large Brana Gronti with feathers of purest white, carved to direct light to their tips which gleam purest blue. In the right light, words emphasising strength, speed and nobility can be seen carved on each feather in the scratch script of the Brana.
The section of fur is carved in white and black and used to depict scenes of the great war against chaos etched across its surface.
Eyes of Adamant are flecked with sapphire and black opal for a piercing blue gaze that stares out from beneath its helmet.

Thundershower (Gauntlets - Weapon 1) Master rune of Thunderbolts (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Blood), Rune of Chain Lightning (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Brain), Rune of Fury (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart)
The furious thunderstorm arcs across the battlefield.
Standard ingredient for the Master Rune, then two more Dragon Ogre Pieces for the other two. Using Kholeks brain for the Rune of Lightning on Skarrenbakraz gave it precise control, control seems like a good effect for what would be expected to make it jump from target to target. Hoping to get a similar effect just slightly weaker for the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Brain. Rune of Fury with the heart, hearts have the meaning of generating power, and well fury is intended to apply more power to the other two effects in the intent of a combo.
Also just so I can use three ingredients of Dragon Ogre Shaggoth for the cumulative intent on association with lightning.
Aesthetic: Carved with knotwork representing storm clouds billowing along the length of the gauntlets, interspersed with small streaks of lightning carved from sapphires. There is a central pillar of lightning that winds down the entire length of the piece and culminates splitting into the claws of the gauntlet themselves. Fleck for the whole thing with tiny snowflakes of white as the snow falls all around it.

Windshaper (Axe head helmet-Weapon 2) Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Force, Rune of Echoblow
Echoes of force carried by the wind
This one has changed. Currents has wind associations and makes the weapon unblockable, faster etc. On to that I have added Rune of force, to push out into the wind itself, and Rune of Echoblow which shapes a phantasmal blow into the shape of the weapon itself.
Therefore, the intent when looking for a combo here is to shape the wind around the weapon into an echo of itself projected outwards against the enemies. To shape the force projections out into actual blows made of the wind themselves using echoblow to define form, and Currents to synergise with the wind itself. I'm pretty happy with this idea to be honest.
Aesthetics: A helm fitted over the head of the Gronti that extends into an axe head that covers the beak and extends slightly beyond it. The helm itself is
The back of the helmet has golden feathers flecked with silver shaped in the image of swords that flank the natural plumage feathers of the Gronti itself, creating an intermixed plumage of Gold and Silver

Winters chill (Armour) (Master Rune of Blizzards (Elder Frostwyrm blood), Rune of Petrification, Rune of Paralysis)
Cold that saps life away from the foe. To invoke the image of freezing to death in the storm, you lose feeling in your limbs as they refuse to move and you die in the cold.
Aesthetic –
A series of Articulated plates held together by Gromril chain.
The underside of the armour follows the same scheme as the Furious Thunderstorm, Black storm clouds dotted with lightning and tiny flecks of silver/white snow. But the plates should be held together such that for moments during its movement the Gromril chain is exposed and the pure white and blue of the Gronti beneath is revealed slightly, creating glimpse of the blue sky peeking through the cloud when the light is right.
The top half of the armour should be golden flecked with silver, with the feathers carved into the images of the armour being swordlike in closer imitation of the blades formed by the silverbearers.

Stormrider (Wings - Banner) (Master rune of Flight, Rune of Speed, Rune of Breezes)
Flying fast as the wind. Truly a simple idea.
Aesthetic: The main frame of the wings should be golden filigree with plumes of white feathers decorated with flecks of golden filigree along their length. At the end of each feather it should be coated with a fine sapphire dust to tinge them blue.

Fount of Knowledge Torque (Talisman) (Master Rune of Amplification, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Stone)
Snerra's combo, Antimagic and enhance runes around it.
A gold and black torque inscribed with both the Brana scratch script and dwarven runes. The upper half is gold and has the scene of Whitebeard accepting the King of Skies Heart engraved in black filigree. The bottom half is black and should have the scene of Thungni giving his Torque to the King of the Skies engraved in gold filigree.

Sets speculative
The Storm Above
Both weapons and the armour are all storm related, ice, lightning and wind.
Don't really have a good inspiration for what would be unique about it beyond just being the three of them just stronger and working together more.
A stretch goal would also get the banner pulled in with a wind combo, but that is a stretch goal.

Upgrades
The Master Rune of True Flight with whatever the name Dolgi comes up with for his rune that grants flight when it exists.

Armour I want to condense Stormfront and use that on the armour rather than the Master Rune of Blizzards. Also, why it's not just a stormfront copy. Recognise that is rather a stretch goal.

(Pipe dream) If Dolgi's flight rune comes up as letting it fly without the featherweight, and we get the next level of movement of things then would probably switch out the Gronti runes to the following.
Master Rune of Waking, Whatever new deep magic rune is, Rune of empowerment and hope for a combo on the drinking in power to empower oneself. Would then hope for a true pipe dream second set based on
New Gronti Runes which drink in deep magic to empower oneself
Armour runes which drink in life and standard movement
Torque which drinks in the winds to empower oneself.
Truly make the King of the Skies unique facets into a part of the Gronti.

I recognise that many people feel Brana Gronti steps on Dolgi's toes. While it is from a while ago I think the point still stands.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest) Fantasy

"I don't think it's done much for me, at least among dwarfs outside of Kraka Drakk, as 'Banner-maiden' and 'Jewel-eyed' have for the both of you. Not that I'm complaining overmuch. Having giant flying friends you can trade reagents for quality craftsmanship with is a good deal to me," Dolgi says with a laugh.

"I'm sure it'll change in time, they don't rightly know what to make of the Griffons yet I s'pose," Snerra says as she chews on a loaf of stonebread while patting him on the shoulder.

"For their sakes, I'd hope so. Not because I want any recognition obviously, but the Griffons deserve to be seen as allies. They did right by us, bled and died alongside us on those walls, and it'd be shameful if we failed to pay them back or recognize their sacrifice," Dolgi grumbles.

Dolgi would be happy that his friends are getting the recognition they deserve.

CanYouMeme · Jun 13, 2022

Okay, I am somewhat recovered, enough that I think it's worth doing a 2.0 of my plan as modified by @Luxon and @Dark as Silver, with some incorporated feedback from @kinglugia , @Cursix , and @Franksson .

Total cost is 59 bars of adamant, plus runic enhancement materials. Swing back through thread pages 2238-2240 of my posts if you have questions.

This Gronti will be very roughly the size of a Bloodthirster, and is measured accordingly.
All elements of the Gronti will be made from Adamant unless otherwise stated, will use the stated runic enhancement materials unless a better one for the stated purpose is available, and all listed Runic Combos are entirely variable as determined by QM. All Runic Enhancement materials will be the highest tier they can possibly be while still matching the purpose of the rune in question.
Note that the Vault states we have an income of +2 bars per turn, as well as the fact that we have some favor to burn.
Word of QM states we can create and implement the following runic sets, though specific effects may vary, as listed as long as we spend the time and materials to build them.
In the interests of saving time and materials, building relationships, and generally making this Drak Gronti fucking amazing, it should be a collaborative effort involving the Runelords of Kraka Drak as much as they are willing. See here for discussion of some of the finer details of the plan concerning Lorna, under the spoiler Ramble 2.
The listed "bars" references to the table Soulcake provided that lists how much Adamant is needed to create certain items.
Note that this plan is running on the assumption that it will take multiple turns worth of actions to finish, and thus we will have enough time to produce any Adamant we are missing before it is completed.
Mundane runes of all the Seven Ancestors will be inscribed in thematically appropriate locations on the Gronti, visible to viewers.

Body (32 bars) - Complete Adamant construction, inscribed with; Master Rune of Improved Waking, Rune of Forging, Rune of Preparation (Ancestor's Grace Combo), requires a minimum of Troll's Heart, will be enhanced with the Ancient Greedy Troll's Heart (Improved Waking) + 2x Pure Gromril (Forging + Preservation)

The Runic Combo is an idea I cooked up for further improving performance.
Ancestor's Grace Runic Combo (Be it grudges or gears, Valaya and Morgrim are the hearthkeepers of the Dawi. Under their watchful eye are the works of heart and hand brought into harmony.)
(Takes the effects of the Improved Master Rune of Waking and raises the performance level at least a few more notches. Eliminates the need for basic maintenance both mechanical and runic.)

"Weapons x2" (3 bars per 1 set, 6 bars total) - The fangs, claws, wing edges, and tail are made of adamant. The actual runic array consists of a pair of spinal plates containing each containing one Runic array, connected to interwoven cables of Gromril Chain + Troll Hide Ropes + Elder Frost Wyrm Bones that snake across the hide of the Gronti to the "weapons" listed above.
The first set is inscribed with: Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Might, Rune of Parrying (Perfect Vengeance Runic Combo), requires minimum of Griffon's Brain, will be enhanced with Sky King's Crest Feather (Currents) + Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart (Rune of Might) + White Lion's Heart (Rune of Parrying)
The second set is inscribed with: Master Rune of Thunderbolts, Rune of Echoblow, Rune of Chain Lightning. Will be enhanced with whatever Runic materials best support lightning stuff - probably Shaggoth bits. Intended for MAXIMUM CHAIN LIGHTNING and some anti-daemon/magic stuff, and will probably make some kind of combo with the first runic set.

The bit with the chains linking the plate is probably unnecessary and not something I really give a shit about - it's just there because I can't think of another way to fluff linking two runic arrays to 8 "weapons" scattered across a large Gronti.

The second runic combo is not something I'm dead set on - if someone comes up with a better build, I'll use that.

Armor (12 bars) - plates attached to the Gronti in a fashion similar to Branakroki armor. Inscribed with Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Valaya, requires minimum of Stonehorn's Horn, will be enhanced with whatever Runic materials best support straight upgrades or a healing/self-repair ability
One of the suggested alterations for more likely healing. Will consider swapping to an anti-magic/daemon build if a different source of regen/self-repair can be concocted.

"Banner" (3 bars) - fluffed as being made out of the "Membrane" of the wings. Will be built as overlapping folding plates carved/engraved to look like arrangements of Branakroki feathers; the entirety of the wings will be built to look like Branakroki wings instead of the usual Draconic bat-like structure. Inscribed with Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking (Ancestral Aegis combo), requires Oathgold, will be enhanced with whatever works best.
The primary source of anti-magic/daemon protection.

Talismanic Rune (3 bars) - fluffed as gold and jewels and shit set into an array of Adamant, forming a tattoo-like network across the body in geometric shapes. Inscribed with; Master Rune of Dragonform (requires research - see below), Rune of Brotherhood, Rune of Calm (Will attempt to acquire Honored Scales combo), will probably require a draconic component - try Prismatic Dragon's Blood first for testing, enhanced with Elder Magma Wyrm's Blood (Dragonform) + 2x Oathgold (Brotherhood and Calm)
I'm not going to copy my original justification for this again in the name of saving space, since that hasn't changed.

If we end up researching the Dragonform Rune and do well enough that it doesn't need the anti-jackass runes, or if we figure out a way to make the Gronti do drak things without it, I will replace the runes as available with anti-magic runes like Spellbreaking and such.

Talismanic Rune (3 Bars) - fluffed as an enhanced spinal ridge. Inscribed with; Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Shadow, Rune of Silence. Will use whatever runic materials are best for speed and stealth.

EDIT: minor tweaks to the runic combos

Dark as Silver · Jun 13, 2022

Luxon said:
It rises up into the clouds

Erm. I don't think a flying Gronti has ever been created before and I don't think that the first time it will be acheived is on something so massive.

Luxon said:
Thundershower (Gauntlets - Weapon 1) Master rune of Thunderbolts (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Blood), Rune of Chain Lightning (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Brain), Rune of Fury (Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart)

Like it, thinking of echoblow for the lightnings thunder but thats just floating an idea.

Luxon said:
Winters chill (Armour) (Master Rune of Blizzards (Elder Frostwyrm blood), Rune of Petrification, Rune of Deflection)

I like the idea but I'm not sure about deflection. Slowness might work to improve the freezing (frost too but dunno how much we want to double up on the MRune). Response for something more evocative of trying to hit the wind?

Luxon said:
Stormrider (Wings - Banner) (Master rune of Flight, Rune of Speed, Rune of Breezes)

MFlight is a weapon rune. This combo is invalid. Replace with MTraversal?
Breezes is deeper into the metaphorical way of coming up with combos than I like, but I understand what you're going for.

Luxon said:
Fount of Knowledge Torque (Talisman) (Master Rune of Amplification, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Stone)

I don't really think this fits well into the item set combo.

CanYouMeme said:
Master Rune of Thunderbolts, Rune of Echoblow, Rune of Daemon-Slaying

I think I prefer Luxon's lightning weapon combo, I don't like the nicheness of X-Slaying runes.

CanYouMeme said:
Armor (12 bars) - plates attached to the Gronti in a fashion similar to Branakroki armor. Inscribed with Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Valaya

I think its better, I'm still very sceptical, however at this point I think we agree to disagree.

CanYouMeme said:
Talismanic Rune (3 Bars) - fluffed as an enhanced spinal ridge. Inscribed with; Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Shadow, Rune of Silence. Will use whatever runic materials are best for speed and stealth.

Feels like we're picking a bit of an uphill battle giving a massive dragon stealth capabilities. Nothing wrong with the combo, I just don't think it plays to the Gronti's strengths.

Luxon · Jun 13, 2022

Thank you for your feedback.

Dark as Silver said:
Erm. I don't think a flying Gronti has ever been created before and I don't think that the first time it will be acheived is on something so massive.

MFlight is a weapon rune. This combo is invalid. Replace with MTraversal?
Breezes is deeper into the metaphorical way of coming up with combos than I like, but I understand what you're going for.

Yeah this is reliant on Master Rune of flight being converted to a banner rune, or whatever Dolgi is cooking up replacing the Master Rune of Flight here. It sits in the same space as flying Dragon Gronti, in that how possible it is depends on what those runes actually end up looking like.

I can try and argue breezes as also creating an updraft wind current to ride as part of the more physical aspect of it if you want. Yeah it might be a bit too metaphorical for Khazalid.

If at the time of construction we end up with no way of even pushing for flight, I'm just going to pull Brana Gronti I think. It will have been a nice testbed for various ideas but doesn't work without it, and I will support a wingless Dragon Gronti instead.
I'll probably write up my own version of that at some point.

Dark as Silver said:
I don't really think this fits well into the item set combo.

Fount of Knowledge doesn't hit a set I acknowledge. It also needs a better name.
I want an antimagic piece because there are spells that will wreck a Gronti one way or another.
I can't think of a way to do antimagic with storms in Khazalid so I'm just going for a more generic version.
Although maybe Ancestral Aegis instead?
I do want it to be a torque, just as a recognition of Thungni's one.

Dark as Silver said:
I like the idea but I'm not sure about deflection. Slowness might work to improve the freezing (frost too but dunno how much we want to double up on the MRune). Response for something more evocative of trying to hit the wind?

Those two runes are fluffed as this on the spreadsheet
Deflections: Energy from blows against the wielder are used to knock hit aside
Slowness: Create a barrier by using dwarven stubborness
So deflection ties stronger into the idea of taking currently, which is why I discarded slowness.

Meh have also considered a few others for the third rune.
Dismay and Ineptitude for sapping away mental qualities as well as physical. The way a mind shuts down while you freeze.
Paralysis to double down on the feeling of physical numbness to more emphasise the physical decline.

I will think on it some more for my answer here.

Dark as Silver said:
Like it, thinking of echoblow for the lightnings thunder but thats just floating an idea.

I hadn't even considered echoblow with it, I will walk off with that for a while and think on it.

Dark as Silver · Jun 13, 2022

Luxon said:
If at the time of construction we end up with no way of even pushing for flight, I'm just going to pull Brana Gronti I think. It will have been a nice testbed for various ideas but doesn't work without it, and I will support a wingless Dragon Gronti instead.

Noted, I dislike plans base on research assumptions but as long as the understanding is there.

To be totally honest, I want to sway away from AA because we've done it before so its kinda boring to me. And also its worth discussing if we can make a combo that is more appropriate to the specifics of what we want for the Gronti. As I said before, we've actually got a lot of room to explore, and we know other anti magic combos to have a strong understanding of what to build off of.

Dark as Silver said:
Honestly we've got enough anti magic runes that we'll have an easy time coming up with a idea, its really a question how we want it to function.
MGrungni in the AA combo has nothing to do with antimagic it handles the deflection, the actual anti magic comes from the minor runes ( Valaya and Spellbreaking.) so we have a lot of flexibility
So something like MSpite, Spellbreaking, Spelleating would be a riff off of the Conversion and Glittering Beacon combos, where instead of providing a additional shield against further attacks/ improved dispels, we throw the spell back at the caster with even more force. Useful if we want to make sure that enemy magic users only get one attempt.
Or if we want maximum protection MValaya, Spellbreaking, Warding. MValaya seems to be the only dedicated anti magic rune at a Master level, spellbreaking is one of our most comboed runes and seems to be the big no to magic in contrast to spell eating which repurposes incoming magic to another use, Warding isn't a rune we often use in combos (I think the only time we've voted on it was the Steel shanks) but soulcake uses it a fair amount and it shows up in Adamant Maker and Hearthward combos so its able to deal with pretty high energy situaitons.

Then we can try and consider more exotic combos like Mvalaya Ineptitude Mindfog, probably a better Banner than talisman but one designed to cause enemy casters to miscast.

I think these are all the combos we have

Combo, Daemonward [Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Determination]
Combo, Ancestral Aegis [Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Conversion/Siphoning (Called Siphoning in the existing combos and conversion everywhere else)[Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding.]
Combo, Glittering Beacon: [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Thungni]: = Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir
Combo, Adamant Maker [Master Rune of Purification/Snorri Gift Giver, Rune of Warding, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Magic Breaker [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding, Rune of Stone] = Master Rune of Valaya
Combo, Amplifier [Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Stone]
Combo, Valaya's Indignanace [Master Rune of Spellspite, Rune of Lightfight, Rune of Lightspite]
Fracturesight: [Master Rune of Thungni (???), Rune of Forged Eye (???), Rune of Smednir (???)]

And arguably Combo, Hearthward [Rune of Valaya, Rune of Warding, Rune of Furnace] May have carried specific anti fire magic properties that helped princess whats her name survive the dragon attack, however this isn't in the item description.

And looking at the frequent runes there are some that show up a lot, Spellbreaking and Warding. Honourable mentions to Stone, Spelleating and Thungni (I dunno is this ). Between these 5 runes they make up like 2/3rds of all those combos. They give us a really strong base to start building up new combos with good confidence.
However Stone and Thungni seem to require other runes to aspect them towards magic before they begin to apply their other effects based on otherwise they give non magic related effects.

Copperscale · Jun 13, 2022

Dark as Silver said:
Combo, Daemonward [Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Determination]
Combo, Ancestral Aegis [Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Conversion/Siphoning (Called Siphoning in the existing combos and conversion everywhere else)[Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding.]
Combo, Glittering Beacon: [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Thungni]: = Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir
Combo, Adamant Maker [Master Rune of Purification/Snorri Gift Giver, Rune of Warding, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Magic Breaker [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding, Rune of Stone] = Master Rune of Valaya
Combo, Amplifier [Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Stone]
Combo, Valaya's Indignanace [Master Rune of Spellspite, Rune of Lightfight, Rune of Lightspite]

Were you trying for a "tzeentch has invaded the thread" Effect with all the colour coding?
Cos it worked

Dark as Silver · Jun 13, 2022

IronFist said:
Were you trying for a "tzeentch has invaded the thread" Effect with all the colour coding?
Cos it worked

Nah I was working through the rainbow and then removed the colours on one off runes that only come up once, which is why some of them ended up unbolded.

Luxon · Jun 13, 2022

Dark as Silver said:
To be totally honest, I want to sway away from AA because we've done it before so its kinda boring to me. And also its worth discussing if we can make a combo that is more appropriate to the specifics of what we want for the Gronti. As I said before, we've actually got a lot of room to explore, and we know other anti magic combos to have a strong understanding of what to build off of.

I think these are all the combos we have

Combo, Daemonward [Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Determination]
Combo, Ancestral Aegis [Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Conversion/Siphoning (Called Siphoning in the existing combos and conversion everywhere else)[Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding.]
Combo, Glittering Beacon: [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Thungni]: = Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir
Combo, Adamant Maker [Master Rune of Purification/Snorri Gift Giver, Rune of Warding, Rune of Spellbreaking]
Combo, Magic Breaker [Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding, Rune of Stone] = Master Rune of Valaya
Combo, Amplifier [Master Rune of Amplification/Snerra Magnasdottir, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Stone]
Combo, Valaya's Indignanace [Master Rune of Spellspite, Rune of Lightfight, Rune of Lightspite]
Fracturesight: [Master Rune of Thungni (???), Rune of Forged Eye (???), Rune of Smednir (???)]

And arguably Combo, Hearthward [Rune of Valaya, Rune of Warding, Rune of Furnace] May have carried specific anti fire magic properties that helped princess whats her name survive the dragon attack, however this isn't in the item description.

And looking at the frequent runes there are some that show up a lot, Spellbreaking and Warding. Honourable mentions to Stone, Spelleating and Thungni (I dunno is this ). Between these 5 runes they make up like 2/3rds of all those combos. They give us a really strong base to start building up new combos with good confidence.
However Stone and Thungni seem to require other runes to aspect them towards magic before they begin to apply their other effects based on otherwise they give non magic related effects.

I'm absolutely willing to try running anti magic that touches upon trying to make a set, but to make it combo with a storm I have to move pretty far from Stone as a metaphor that lots of dwarven antimagic is based on.

I am willing to try and my first stab at it is below. It does a lot of reaching.

Master Rune of Amplification, Rune of Warding, Rune of Breezes.
We know from the rune primer that every possible possibility was dragged down onto runes, even ones Khazalid had no reference for. And that every other species has the magic is winds association.
Therefore deep down runes that imply winds have magic connections when you use the right runes to bring it to the fore.
If wards makes the magic flow away from you, and amplification is grabbing and breaking the flows that exist, then incanting them with breezes would have meaning of touching upon and controlling those flows.

Even I'm skeptical about parts of that, as I'm touching upon where words that Khazalid would have no equivalent would have been directed, It would certainly be interesting as a research path if it did anything. And Snorri has knowledge from the Elvish textbooks and Brana to be able to see the association himself.
And it would also be able to start incanting the storm parts of the combo into storm of magic as an ideal.

If the thread is willing to try it at any point I'd like to see just where it goes as even a failure here would be worth noting.

Edit - Also one day we should see what happens when wind runes get carved on Hearthstone. Control of the winds on an item that radiates the Red Wind.

Dark as Silver · Jun 13, 2022

Luxon said:
I'm absolutely willing to try running anti magic that touches upon trying to make a set, but to make it combo with a storm I have to move pretty far from Stone as a metaphor that lots of dwarven antimagic is based on.

I am willing to try and my first stab at it is below. It does a lot of reaching.

Master Rune of Amplification, Rune of Warding, Rune of Breezes.
We know from the rune primer that every possible possibility was dragged down onto runes, even ones Khazalid had no reference for. And that every other species has the magic is winds association.
Therefore deep down runes that imply winds have magic connections when you use the right runes to bring it to the fore.
If wards makes the magic flow away from you, and amplification is grabbing and breaking the flows that exist, then incanting them with breezes would have meaning of touching upon and controlling those flows.

Even I'm skeptical about parts of that, as I'm touching upon where words that Khazalid would have no equivalent would have been directed, It would certainly be interesting as a research path if it did anything. And Snorri has knowledge from the Elvish textbooks and Brana to be able to see the association himself.
And it would also be able to start incanting the storm parts of the combo into storm of magic as an ideal.

If the thread is willing to try it at any point I'd like to see just where it goes as even a failure here would be worth noting.

Edit - Also one day we should see what happens when wind runes get carved on Hearthstone. Control of the winds on an item that radiates the Red Wind.

I don't like Amplification because half of the benefit is that it improves runesmith active dispelling, which is something a Gronti can't benefit from since they can't dispel. I'd much rather see MValaya on this as it doesn't let half the benefit go to waste.
And I might be tapping into Divided Loyalties lore but the blessing of Valaya is what directs the winds away from Karaks right? So that could be a link if the combo you're going for is about controlling the winds.
However I think breezes is going too far into the abstract, it goes from rune that makes air move -> moving air is basically wind -> the movement of magic is also referred to as winds -> the rune that moves air will move magic.
Important things to remember are that a runes name is whatever the runesmith who invented it thought was the most appropriate usually based on describing its effects, it doesn't describe abstract concepts the rune manipulates. And runes don't like abstracts.

soulcake said:
Yall realize Rune names come AFTER the Runesmith discovers the Rune?

There isnt a Rune that makes you literally immovable, only a bunch of Runes that help make a dwarf make themselves immoveable or like a Mountain in that respect. A Rune of the Mountain would be some mix of effects from those other Runes.

soulcake said:
A. As a derivative of Khazalid, Runes don't like abstracts.

Instead I'd look at warding or sanctuary, to say that we just want the winds to stay away. I'd look at stone if we wanted to ground or resist the magic. And spellbreaking if we just want it to piss off in little peices. Spell eating instead if we're expecting lots of small magic rather than a few big ones.

Tinkerer · Jun 13, 2022

I'm not a fan of making the Gronti a dragon, just want to stick with it being a dwarf.

CanYouMeme · Jun 13, 2022

Dark as Silver said:
I think I prefer Luxon's lightning weapon combo, I don't like the nicheness of X-Slaying runes.

I think its better, I'm still very sceptical, however at this point I think we agree to disagree.

Feels like we're picking a bit of an uphill battle giving a massive dragon stealth capabilities. Nothing wrong with the combo, I just don't think it plays to the Gronti's strengths.

I'll swap in echoblow for the Daemon-slaying. But @Luxon 's CL rune doesn't work, because Chain Lightning isn't a weapon rune - it's a Talismanic rune according to the google doc table, and it's not listed under Weapons in the Rune List post.

Fair enough.

When I say I'm aiming for stealth, it's more in the sense of "No one will notice of there's no one to notice"; more evasion, speed and making it harder to hit. The shadow rune states that it "Creates a sphere of darkness around the rune similar in radius to a Rune of Light" - that seems thematically appropriate for summoning a blizzard-thunderstorm (when stacked with the two weapon rune sets) where Shadow makes the clouds. Technically unseen - the best kind of correct. Silence in this combo is intended to muffle the sound of big chunks of Adamant slamming into things so they can't just shoot in the general direction of clanging and banging.

That being said, if I can figure out a Talismanic set that does regen I'll swap that in for the "No-Witnesses Array" and pick an armor combo to do your storm-mantle idea.

Tinkerer said:
I'm not a fan of making the Gronti a dragon, just want to stick with it being a dwarf.

Why?

Luxon · Jun 13, 2022

CanYouMeme said:
I'll swap in echoblow for the Daemon-slaying. But @Luxon 's CL rune doesn't work, because Chain Lightning isn't a weapon rune - it's a Talismanic rune according to the google doc table, and it's not listed under Weapons in the Rune List post.

Any Rune on the google docs table in green can be used in any category. Chain Lightning can thus be used for anything.

Dark as Silver said:
I don't like Amplification because half of the benefit is that it improves runesmith active dispelling, which is something a Gronti can't benefit from since they can't dispel. I'd much rather see MValaya on this as it doesn't let half the benefit go to waste.
And I might be tapping into Divided Loyalties lore but the blessing of Valaya is what directs the winds away from Karaks right? So that could be a link if the combo you're going for is about controlling the winds.
However I think breezes is going too far into the abstract, it goes from rune that makes air move -> moving air is basically wind -> the movement of magic is also referred to as winds -> the rune that moves air will move magic.
Important things to remember are that a runes name is whatever the runesmith who invented it thought was the most appropriate usually based on describing its effects, it doesn't describe abstract concepts the rune manipulates. And runes don't like abstracts.

You came at this from the exact opposite angle from which I did. So I will try and explain mine better here.
First from the Runic Primer.

soulcake said:
To illustrate better, imagine Latin or any other dead language. Now imagine that language being formed and having everything, and I mean everything, that ever could, was or will happen being condensed down and attached to a runic equivalent. Of course, since there's literally everything being applied to a very large, but in comparison infinitely small, section of Runes, you have multiple definitions or meanings applied to the same Rune. Sorta like how a word has different contexts, affixes, suffixes or permutations and the like. So it's a sort of situation where there's a lot of theoretical possibilities, but limited practical realities for several reasons with some listed below:

The old ones had a word for how the winds of magic flowed, but when that would have been ported onto Khazalid it would have been attached onto other words. The closest equivalent word to describing the winds of magic at the time in Khazalid would be words for describing how the normal winds flow.

Therefore the Rune of Breezes might have some following example definitions
1) To make the wind blow
2) Movement of air
3) A path to follow
...
...
Final definition) The way magic blows

Because that is the closest Khazalid equivalent to something they did not have words for when the infinite space was allocated onto a finite number of words. However while it has those definitions it will always normally express itself as normal winds. That is such a stronger concept in Khazalid then something they would normally never reference that of course it dominates every time you use it.

From that, can I construct a sentence in Khazalid that would force the definition in use to ignore those earlier definitions, and make the last one the only definition used.
Amplification, which is really spell breaking and spell eating and the nature of stone directs the entire sentence to how it interacts with flows of magic. Warding does similarly..
So the sentence I am trying for is more the image of.

The (Flow) of magic is broken, torn from their grasp And then I command the winds to flow.

In a way that the subject of the winds flowing is defined by the rest of the sentence to be the winds of magic rather than normal winds.

I hope that made at least enough sense that you see what I was aiming for, even if you still disagree with that set of runes.

Anyway on to the rest of your advice.
Rune of Valaya and Rune of Stone are unlikely to be what I want to use for this. If only because they are both not things that tie in well for the storm aesthetic.
I personally think they would not allow for touching the winds at all. Because they are two of the most common anti magic Runes used in existence, if they were at the centre point of a definition that allowed one to control the winds of magic it would have been found incredibly early on. They are also both heavily tied to the normal dwarven magic resistance and Dwarves do not touch magic directly and cannot cast it. I see them both as a total rejection of the winds as they function.

The art of controlling the winds of magic themselves is foreign to the dwarven aesthetic. I expect that the runic words needed to create it would be similarly divorced from normal dwarven wisdom, because it is an idea they have no proper conception of at this point and thus does not hold a standard part of their lexicon to describe it.

So my opinion here is:
If there is a combo that touches on the winds, it will be words that Dwarves would never normally think to place together.

Tinkerer · Jun 13, 2022

CanYouMeme said:
Why?

Partly for aesthetic reasons, and partly just it'd be easier to stack synergies with a dwarf in armor instead of trying to make them fit on a dragon.

CanYouMeme · Jun 13, 2022

Tinkerer said:
Partly for aesthetic reasons, and partly just it'd be easier to stack synergies with a dwarf in armor instead of trying to make them fit on a dragon.

Aesthetic I can understand. "Easier to stack synergies" I don't - they're both an Engineering and an Armor set, so they should be fucntionally the same regardless of what form the Gronti takes.. Unless you're referring to dumping the proposed Dragonform set for more slots and thus more slots to make synergies.

Luxon said:
Any Rune on the google docs table in green can be used in any category. Chain Lightning can thus be used for anything.

Ah. I'll replace Daemon-slayer with CL then.

Franksson · Jun 14, 2022

I mean, if we can not make the gronti fly I also am against making a dragon or brana.

Dark as Silver · Jun 14, 2022

CanYouMeme said:
I'll swap in echoblow for the Daemon-slaying. But @Luxon 's CL rune doesn't work, because Chain Lightning isn't a weapon rune - it's a Talismanic rune according to the google doc table, and it's not listed under Weapons in the Rune List post.

Oh right, if you haven't heard. All basic runes are interchangeable between classes because narratively Snorri will know an equivalent to that rune that matches this specific Form. The only exception is Featherweight, because Dolgi hasn't invented those runes yet.
So yes CL isn't valid but Snorri also knows the Rune of Continuous Lightning or something that would be a weapon rune however its too much bookkeeping to record the same rune 5 times for each category.

Luxon said:
From that, can I construct a sentence in Khazalid that would force the definition in use to ignore those earlier definitions, and make the last one the only definition used.

I understand what you're trying to do, but I'm saying its too many degrees of separation to deal with Khazalids dislike of abstracts. We don't know the words yet to make the sentence you need.
Its important to realise the flow of magic being called winds is just a metaphor in english. You do not have 7 kinds of normal wind that turn into an evil corruptive wind when they combine. The Old Ones word for how magic flows was probably completely unrelated to their word for air currents.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

SV's Estalia Guy