Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Had ideas for possible combos to try the next time we make something relatively straightforward on a commission, like just a banner or something rather than the big ass gronti. Tried to make them ones we haven't used before; also offered some theming that avoids ones we've used before, particularly dragons, but even without that I just kind of think they'd be baller.

Master Rune of Flight, Rune of Cold, Rune of Striking: As the Ancestor's cutting words might, it flies true seeking out foolishness from all corners. As cold as the sneering contempt of a Longplait discovering some shoddiness on the part of her otherwise favored apprentice. And as skilled at looking for weaknesses as a Living Ancestor looking for the right words to remind some Longbeard they were just as shoddy and just as foolish as the poor Beardling they were haranguing.

Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Embers, Rune of Polish: The bright glittering spark leaping up from Valaya's own hearth, which does not flare out but burns bright and casts down down the foe, so bright and scintillating and brilliant that the foe cannot even bear to look at it; indeed even magic seems a damp squib compared to its luminescence.

Master Rune of Taunting, Rune of Berserk, Rune of Eagles: Your rage will meet theirs, son of Grimnir, the Slayer, the Valorous, the Brave. Your rage will meet theirs, and your rage will prove the greater, your hate the purer, your desire for blood the thirstiest. Your weapons will meet their woven garb and split it like air; your hammer will strike their shields, and not merely dent it, but destroy it. They will seek to fight you, and they will die for it.

Master Rune of Lightning Strikes, Rune of Burning, Rune of Shocking: A storm, harnessed. A storm, unleashed. Every shot will be as though a great storm has fallen upon them. First, the burst of power, thunderlike, as each projectile strikes the very earth. Then the rain, the fire tossed about by the wave, burning and falling on them like thick fat droplets. And at each step the lightning comes, moving through and cleaving as it goes, smiting the foe.

Master Rune of Challenge, Rune of Bang, Rune of Brightness: A challenge is made, and a challenge must be met. Grimnir the valiant, Grimnir the bold, Grimnir the brave stands ready to judge. The foe stands before His gaze, and is found wanting. If base enough to flee and turn their back they are left blinded and deafened, stumbling and defenseless, waiting for the end. Even those of some physical courage are left seared by the glory of Grimnir and by the boom of His voice, and left unseeing and unhearing of all that is around them.

Like I said, just some ideas for the next time we actually make something (or stuff our apprentices could make).
 
Last edited:
With the above information, the full Emperor-dragon sized gronti becomes incredibly feasible, raw material wise.

If we cut both the scales and Dragonbreath weapon down to three bars of Adamant (as the latter is an internal weapon that we care about for the runic effects), that puts it at 81 bars total. With 46 currently stockpiled, if we build another smelter next turn, we'd have enough for the full dragon and equipment in 12 turns, 5 of which are spent building Khazagar itself.

That puts the final build time at 6 items (Gronti+Heart+Wings+Claws+Breath+Scales) in 7 turns, post Khazagar completion. The limiting factor then is likely going to be the Master Runes of Dragonbreath and Flying, the acquisition of which is the most up-in-the-air portion.
 
T
We don't need to take the fight to the skies when we have the cloak and we can just shoot at flying enemies from the ground. Indeed, falling from a great height and being buried deep in the ground seems like one of the few ways a gronti of this scale could be disabled.
Hat one i will refute, because what if we are not there?
With the above information, the full Emperor-dragon sized gronti becomes incredibly feasible, raw material wise.

If we cut both the scales and Dragonbreath weapon down to three bars of Adamant (as the latter is an internal weapon that we care about for the runic effects), that puts it at 81 bars total. With 46 currently stockpiled, if we build another smelter next turn, we'd have enough for the full dragon and equipment in 12 turns, 5 of which are spent building Khazagar itself.

That puts the final build time at 6 items (Gronti+Heart+Wings+Claws+Breath+Scales) in 7 turns, post Khazagar completion. The limiting factor then is likely going to be the Master Runes of Dragonbreath and Flying, the acquisition of which is the most up-in-the-air portion.
Or we do the bloodthirster sized one with all adamant and still come out cheaper while not loosing flexibility underground...
 
huh wonder if it would be possible to make a gronti with gromril skin and skeleton, but internal of all water?
 
T

Hat one i will refute, because what if we are not there?

Or we do the bloodthirster sized one with all adamant and still come out cheaper while not loosing flexibility underground...

There are diminishing returns from being made fully of adamant for a gronti. With pure gromril flesh and an adamant skeleton, it's basically invincible already, and there's nothing squishy inside that needs protection. You also seem to be discounting the massive benefits of flight in terms of usability and coverage. A bloodthirster-sized dwarf model gronti can win a battle, a flying Emperor-dragon sized gronti can feasibly lock down an entire battlefront, as well as synergising with and being able to protect our Brana allies. Making it Emperor-Dragon sized, as stated above, doesn't actually change the timeline of building it+its equipment after Khazagar's completion in any significant way.

Also, you know, being a dragon. Dragons are very cool.
 
Having caught up, again, I feel like we're really close to being censured by the Runesmith Guild and maybe even Thungni himself because we're dangerously skirting his rules as is a lot of the time.

I know there's some perspective stuff, like we view the whole of arming everyone with a pick or axe as our Pride rather than each individual one, but its still a thing.

... On the other hand, who wants to go to the roof of the world and slap a giant Rune of Purification on top of the closed Chaos Gate? :V

#HubrisIsACoward'sWord
 
more like a gronti utterly immune to blunt force trauma with no real way to crack under pressure except downward strikes on the skeleton which could still flex to increase amount of pressure required.
How are you getting the inside of the Gronti filled with water, without creating a vulnerable point that can be struck?
Also, it took a troll everchosen almost ascending to demon prince ascending to dent our tier two gromril plate, which was probably a couple of millimeters thick.
A gronti would probably be much thicker.

You also seem to be discounting the massive benefits of flight in terms of usability and coverage.
You also seem to be counting your chicken's grandchildren before you even have a chicken.

Also, anything that is able to make an enormous dragon fly is able to make other things fly.
The wings themselves don't have a snowball's chance of generating enough lift to make a gronti fly.
The dragon flies with magic, ergo, we can make anything fly.
 
Last edited:
How are you getting the inside of the Gronti filled with water, without creating a vulnerable point that can be struck?
Also, it took a troll everchosen almost ascending to demon prince ascending to dent our tier two gromril plate, which was probably a couple of millimeters thick.
A gronti would probably be much thicker.


You also seem to be counting your chicken's grandchildren before you even have a chicken.
fill with water then screw the hole shut with a gromril screw? like a water bottle?
 
You also seem to be counting your chicken's grandchildren before you even have a chicken.

How? We know Dolgi is working on this exact problem, the only issue is the timeframe. Equipping the dragon is significantly easier, from a meta perspective, than any dwarf gronti due to the clarity of concept and purpose. An ancestor gronti of various shapes and sizes has been floating around the thread for literally years at this point, and still there has been no consensus on the design of the equipment or even nailing down a clear theme! There's a reason so many people have been turned off the idea.
 
Last edited:
Dwarfs build their halls big, not their connection tunnels. And any dragon we have actually seen were not in the hold. They dug under the hold. So if you don't want our dragon gronti to destroy the hold through uncontrolled digging it's going to be supremely hampered by hallways and doors...
And maybe it's not the shoulder height of a bloodthirster (though at 3 times the size it actually might be) it's certainly long enough to just destroy stuff through moving because there is no room to dodge.
A normal emperor dragon is about the same height as a bloodthirster (they're described as being as tall as a great ship which is about eleven or so meters give or take a few) and we can build one of those for about as much as a bloodthirster gronti to my knowledge.
To my knowledge this thing is absolutely going to be threefold the height of a Bloodthirster not just threefold the volume.
 
Last edited:
A normal emperor dragon is about the same height as a bloodthirster (they're described as being as tall as a great ship which is about eleven or so meters give or take a few) and we can build one of those for about as much as a bloodthirster gronti.

The amounts quoted are for Emperor-dragon sized - 3x the size of a bloodthirster, most of which is length, as to no one's surprise, an emperor dragon is quadrupedal, not bipedal.
 
I never said anything about not making a dragon, i just wouldn't make the extra Uber big version. We don't need it emperor dragon size...
 
1.I'll be honest, its unlikely to be one singular giant piece like you'd make with a Stone Gronti, but maintenance concerns aren't as big as they appear. Snorri will configure it to minimize such concerns regardless of aesthetic.

2. Depends on how you wanna build it, but aside from individual Clan halls and mineshafts you could probably fit it, though it'd be tight.
Same as anything, 3 bars for the "full" buff
Damn it @soulcake Now I have to start making a parallel plan with Adamant-skeleton + Pure Gromril-skin just to make sure I covered all my bases! Stop giving me more paperwork!

@BungieONI @Xepheria @Aventur I'm going to re-copy my original statement on Gronti size, with some modifications for new info;

1) This is a Dwarven Gronti, and it will be used for Dwarven purposes. Yeah, Word of QM states you can fit a XXX Dragon Gronti in the major underground areas. But simply being able to move through a space doesn't mean you can actually do anything worthwhile, much less something energetic like tunnel-delving or combat. The bigger the Gronti the more likely collateral damage is, and the more confined quarters will cripple its ability to do stuff. Runework is not going to address this problem very much, if at all.

2) Assuming this Gronti is made out of Gromril and/or Adamant, there is a point at which large size produces diminishing returns. The literal strongest materials in Malus, at least as far as the Dawi know, and an assload of powerful Runic reagents effectively eliminate the need for maximum size as a combat tool. Plus, the bigger the Gronti the easier it is to target, entrap, dogpile and swarm, or simply shoot to shit with artillery and spells; no durability or strength is going to perfectly mitigate that. Better to make a compact Gronti.

3) There's also the problem of energy consumption, which BungieONI raised. The bigger the Gronti, the more magic-slurpie-fuel it needs to do what we want it to (especially flight), and the more likely it is to require spending resources on making it bare-minimum functional instead of maximizing performance. This is made even worse by the fact that the number of Runic arrays that can actually serve as purpose-made fuel gatherers is limited to Talismanic and maybe an Engineering combo without an assload of research to make new shit which frankly isn't worth the time investment.

3) Size is impressive. You know what's an assload more impressive, especially by Dawi standards? Glorious top-notch craftsmanship across every conceivable inch of space. Such a Gronti is going to be the Herald of the Runehall in particular and Kraka Drakk in general; building it in a fashion that plays to as many Dawi traditions as possible (barring the whole dragon form to make it unique) is going to be the best use of materials and time from a social perspective.
 
Last edited:
Oh come on, why would you not want to make the singe biggest, most priceless, and adamant gronti IN THE HISTORY OF THE KARAZ ANKOR! For Thugni's beard, even if nothing else, we would be the most famous runelord in its history by doing something like that and permanently giving our karak safety against anything stupid enough to even try and attack it (such as failbaddon the everchosen). I honestly see no reason why not to go with Bungi on this one to be honest.
 
Oh come on, why would you not want to make the singe biggest, most priceless, and adamant gronti IN THE HISTORY OF THE KARAZ ANKOR! For Thugni's beard, even if nothing else, we would be the most famous runelord in its history by doing something like that and permanently giving our karak safety against anything stupid enough to even try and attack it (such as failbaddon the everchosen). I honestly see no reason why not to go with Bungi on this one to be honest.
Because dwarfs like tunnels more then the open skies...
 
Except, this is a dragon. A dragon which is stated by soul himself, to be big enough for a emperor sized dragon dronti to fit through, not perfectly, but enough to fit through.
 
Except, this is a dragon. A dragon which is stated by soul himself, to be big enough for a emperor sized dragon dronti to fit through, not perfectly, but enough to fit through.
yeah, you can also fit a fridge through a doorway, that doesn't mean the fridge is easily manoeuvred or cant fuck up your shit if moved incorrectly.
i still want it to be a dragon but i really don't see the reasoning for ultra big. its still going to be a excellent murder blender in bloodthirster size.
 
Last edited:
Because dwarfs like tunnels more then the open skies...

Our hold is 'the dragon-hold' - it was literally an emperor dragon's lair before the dwarves got there and started carving it out even more. This isn't even mentioning the fact that we have an aery of very large flying friends sitting on the mountain peak, with infrastructure designed to accommodate beings significantly larger than the average dwarfhold.

It's a titan-combatant, designed to take down threats that are too large or powerful for individual dwarves to easily handle, in the same vein as the King of the Skies. If the north is going to take the brunt of future Everchosen invasions, it better be able to handle the biggest and scariest that chaos can throw at us without breaking a sweat.
 
Last edited:
Our hold is 'the dragon-hold' - it was literally an emperor dragon's lair before the dwarves got there and started carving it out even more. This isn't even mentioning the fact that we have an aery of very large flying friends sitting on the mountain peak, with infrastructure designed to accommodate beings significantly larger than the average dwarfhold.
absolutely and i love for it to be a dragon but is there any other way to interpret "it'd be tight."
2. Depends on how you wanna build it, but aside from individual Clan halls and mineshafts you could probably fit it, though it'd be tight.
i want that dragon to be able to parade through our hold without us having to evacuate the main thorough fair...
 
I wouldn't advise the fridge argument considering I had to help move one for a friend of mine to move to a new home, but the idea is to have such a big dragon so that when such a situation like a massive army of demons, beastmen, orcs, or whatever have happened, we can send what we have is the equivalent to a tactical NUKE, and send it straight at the foe and either destroy it or if in the case of a much larger war, lock down a certain part of the war at hand, before we then send it off to the next battlefield and do the exact something. Which has a myriad of benefits I'd be happy to debate about.
 
Wait, is that just the reason why you would rather downsize an adamant dragon Gronti?
i want it to be able to tunnel fight because that is where we are the most vulnerable (funny for a dwarf hold). we have the king of the skies living in our attic, we have 7 walls and a gigantic gromril gate but the last time a dragon showed up it didnt fall from the sky, it burrowed in from below and the gronties we had were instrumental in killing that one...

edit: and a slightly smaller gronti can still fight up top, but it can also fight down below.
 
[Non Canon???] The Smelter, +10 to a Roll [USED]
Well, since the question was brought up on how we'd even build a Grant Gronti, I remembered the way we just offhandedly made a gronti back when assisting with the Underway construction, and.... well...

An excerpt from Cataloging the Miracles:
Masterworks of the Golden Age

---
The Grand Smelter Of The North

Next on our list of the miracles of the North, we pay homage to one of the best known works of the honoured Runelord Klausson the Gift Giver, so being as it is one of the few surviving and intact gronti from that era and unlike vast majority, it is still functional.

Despite the regularity with which it is studied by the honoured members of the Cult of Thugni and their reports when public, as well as its designation written in clear ancient Khazalid on its outer surface, this masterwork remains both peculiar and mysterious.

The gronti is massive and strange, even for a product of the Golden Age. It is taller than a river monitor is long, standing on three legs and having four hands. These appendages have been identified to be made of solid and Pure Gromril. The main body is shaped akin to a giant cauldron, with pipes and valves protruding at regular intervals, and is large enough to contain an entire house. Yet most of it is utterly hollow and it is made of the strangely light Shimmering Gromril, allowing the gronti to move about with greater agility than many would expect. The insides are covered in runes both strange and familiar, the ones identified relating to fire and heat, and the magnificent Smednir.

The gronti is a great boon to the defence of Kraka Drakk and their throng both on offence and defence. Its size and materials of construction make it a massive battering ram capable of crushing entire hordes of grobi in a single attack while being utterly impervious to any conceivable counter-attack, or of bringing down the greatest defensive works built by non-dwarven hands better than any siege weapon. But more than that, as the name suggests, the gronti is a massive mobile smelter of incredible potency, allowing the smiths of a throng on the move to easily re-use valuable metals and even produce fresh steel by cartload, for armaments or siege machines, from any raw iron ore found by the throng.

So great is the heat within it, that on the rare occasion the need has arisen, even Gromril weapons and armor have been fixed and reworked with it. Some malicious rumours even claim that some Dawi go out of their way to have their ancestral armaments sullied in the field for a chance to have them be treated by the Grand Smelter; some of these rumours say this is only for prestige, while others claim the incredible heat and Thugni's craft embedded within work to ever so slightly purify Gromril, bringing the already rare and incredible material a step closer to actual Pure Gromril of the Ancients.

The priests of Smednir and Thugni refuse to comment, and we can all only offer condemnation to any dawi foolish enough to treat their sacred ancestral gifts with such foolishness as to require the services of a smith.

And yet The Grand Smelter Of The North, despite its apparent stupendous usefulness and myth galore associated - as befitting as surviving miracle of better times - still remains a masterwork with somewhat mysterious origins. The builder is well-known, but the original function of the gronti is not. All who have examined the gronti agree, it is being hardly used to its theoretical capacity and that none who live retain the knowledge of how to do so. Additionally, there are signs within the cauldron body, that some internal parts or cladding may have been removed at some point by parties unknown - possibly by the original builder himself.

Finally, while there are no contemporary records speaking to the intent of the honoured Runelord who built it, surviving memoirs through his multitude of apprentice lineages speak of the gronti as only an intermediate tool. That it was built for a specific purpose, created to facilitate something even more grand, a work of mythic proportions, in the same way a smith might create a special set of tongs to make a masterwork chainmail.

Speculation is rampant, including some miracle work now likely lost to time, or perhaps something related to the Northern School of Thugni's Art - or Klausson Institute as it is also known - but reportedly no item inside the walls of the Runelord's old halls would match the scale and complexity of something conceivably requiring the Grand Smelter gronti to create.

We will likely never know, and like most entries in this books, this too speaks to the knowledge and glories lost to us since the times of the Ancients, that such a tool intended to build something else entirely is beyond our ability to replicate.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top