Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Rune Metal and starting the workshop

On counter-troll axe the main challenges I see are:
-Troll regeneration
-Troll physique
-Troll acid

The first is a solved problem, kill it with fire.
You know I was just thinking about a Master Rune of Fire/Flame equivalent, and while I was thinking about Conduction, it's actually probably the Master Rune of Gazul. Putting aside anything from Divided Loyalties, the name of Gazul's sword does suggest a connection to potent flame. Zharrvengryn - Flaming Vengeance
 
-Throwing - If they're dangerous in melee why fight them in melee? Throw a returning axe.
-Freeze - Turn the troll into a popsicle, no acid splash if its been flash frozen in the instant you cleaved it and I reckon regenerating from being popsicle'd is a mite difficult(maybe if you do it right you could use the same rune combo to suck out all the heat from the troll, then apply thermal shock on the cutting edge?)
Snorri while he was fighting Trollpus mentioned that Freezing blood it had countered its weakness.

Only to land on a group of horrors, killing the lot of them as you deftly moved aside and swung out with your axe, slicing through the dwarf made steel and into the flesh. The spray of blue arterial blood making your instincts scream to dodge. You follow your gut, dodging out of the way of the liquid and watch dispassionately as the droplets hit the ground and freeze it solid.

Of course, it had frozen blood, couldn't even have the traditional weakness of a troll, could it?

Freezing is also mostly tissue damage instead of searing it away as with fire. Thermal shock could work but sounds finicky.
 
In regards to an anti-troll weapons, is there any way to invert the effects of a rune? Becuase if there are runes that promote health and healing, something that instead enhances weakness and decay (the opposite of the former effects) might be something that can slow/weaken trolls no matter what buffs they have.
 
In regards to an anti-troll weapons, is there any way to invert the effects of a rune? Becuase if there are runes that promote health and healing, something that instead enhances weakness and decay (the opposite of the former effects) might be something that can slow/weaken trolls no matter what buffs they have.
Maybe. But I imagine it's less "invert an existing Rune's effects" and more "create an entirely new Rune that causes an inversion of another"
 
Snorri while he was fighting Trollpus mentioned that Freezing blood it had countered its weakness.



Freezing is also mostly tissue damage instead of searing it away as with fire. Thermal shock could work but sounds finicky.
A bit sorta correct? The axe didn't have a Rune of Fire, it was Daemon Slaying, Fury and Cleaving. It was him noting that even with a rune of fire the troll's blood would've likely counteracted any searing a rune of fire could cause.

Didn't work against the Master Rune of Conduction what with it pumping enough heat into Trollpus' shoulder that it basically carbonized the flesh.
 
A bit sorta correct? The axe didn't have a Rune of Fire, it was Daemon Slaying, Fury and Cleaving. It was him noting that even with a rune of fire the troll's blood would've likely counteracted any searing a rune of fire could cause.

Didn't work against the Master Rune of Conduction what with it pumping enough heat into Trollpus' shoulder that it basically carbonized the flesh.
I see. His axe was what it regenerated from, but not his hammer.
 
I say keep it simple. Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Might, Rune of Striking. Super heats weapon, strengthens strikes to take down even Giants (rune description) and makes the weapon target the most vulnerable locations on the target. Simple, efficient, effective.

Or switch stinking for Cleaving. Exchanging targeting enhancement for extra cutting power.

Heck make two aces one with each and either double team or try the out to find which works better.
 
Last edited:
Anyway, I think I'm happy enough with my primer on how runes work in this quest that I'll post it. Maybe It'll help you guys out when thinking of runes snorri may know or have.
 
Runes are the "language" of the Dawi, imposed upon the metaphysical and ever-changing nature of magic and the Realms of Chaos( Warp as we call it). Runes in the metaphysical sense are permanence, rules and order made manifest, and though it was tied to Khazalid in its very conception, the Runic tongue is permanent in a way that Khazalid, any Dwarfen tradition or craft can only ever hope to be. A Rune's definition is therefore unchanging, it does not care for time, lingual drift, or accents, but its meaning can be altered. Just as many words can have multiple meanings in certain contexts, so too does a Rune when made in a certain way. A different line, a deeper cut or even an alternate way of writing the same Rune can vastly change its metaphysical meaning and therefore its corporeal effect on reality. This is why runesmiths have chants, rites and other rituals when inscribing Runes, they were first and foremost a way to remember the correct way of "pronouncing" the written Rune, and to a minor extent impart the metaphysical meaning into the mind of the runesmith. This extends to the material that Runes are made from as well. In this case, their imprint on the Realm of Chaos carries that weight over to the Rune being made from it, adding weight to a certain definition that Rune would be using. Theoretically, if a Runesmith is absolutely perfect in their striking, they could make any Rune with nothing but will, a hammer and a chisel, but mortals are anything but, and so must tip the scales and put metaphysical weight on the runic definition they want.

To illustrate better, imagine Latin or any other dead language. Now imagine that language being formed and having everything, and I mean everything, that ever could, was or will happen being condensed down and attached to a runic equivalent. Of course, since there's literally everything being applied to a very large, but in comparison infinitely small, section of Runes, you have multiple definitions or meanings applied to the same Rune. Sorta like how a word has different contexts, affixes, suffixes or permutations and the like. So it's a sort of situation where there's a lot of theoretical possibilities, but limited practical realities for several reasons with some listed below:

A. As a derivative of Khazalid, Runes don't like abstracts.
B. Dwarfs will never think to make a Rune like that/its abhorrent to them. Like, say, a rune that helps you commit betrayal? Theoretically possible, because everything has a rune, but this being a construct of Dwarfen make, it's effectively impossible to achieve because Dwarfs don't do that, and that specific definition is outweighed by other "definitions" that is more dwarf appropriate, like the Grudge Rune for instance.
C. The more general the definition, the more metaphysical weight it has compared to more specific stuff.

Extrapolating from there Runic Combos as you can likely guess, are the rune magic equivalent of stringing along words to convey a message. Of course, as each Rune is added, it takes more and more power to convey the idea into reality, thereby limiting the number of Runes that can be inscribed on an item because 99.999% of materials cannot handle the energy of more than three Runes.

Master Runes then are special because they encompass very complex concepts and ideas usually with a lot of extra stuff involved. Basically doing in one Rune what a Runic combo does in three, but better. Like how I can say "happiness from pain" or just use Schadenfreude, there's more meaning and therefore power in that one word than those three combined. I won't make a German comparison mostly because I don't know enough about the language to do so. But I think the idea gets across.

So as an example, you have the Rune of Fire. The Rune of Fire as the dwarfs understand it would make your weapons burn hot and cleave through material more easily, melting metal and burning flesh. Because dwarfs understand fire and heat more along with those terms yes*? Now, theoretically, that Rune of Fire also encompasses fire hot enough to match a dragon, but that effect is harder to achieve because it's more specific than just fire in general, so if a runesmith wants that "definition" they use dragon bits to weigh the scales in its favour. Imparting the material's power to get the rune effect they want. In a similar sense, a rune that keeps you warm from the cold or shields you from fire is similarly derived, to varying extents, from the rune of fire, and those similarities can be seen in their overall construction.

The Master Rune of Conduction is not only fire, but the concept of getting something very hot then transferring that energy into whatever I hit. This "definition" requires either a very precise, even by dwarf standards, series of marks done in the right way or you can tip the scales so to speak by using Magma Dragon's Blood.

Consequently, flubbing any part of that can alter the definition being used immensely from something as minor as a bad hit or incorrect blow to an entirely different reagent. So the Runes that are in use are the versions that do the best at what they do in most cases. As technically changing even one strike in a Rune's formation makes it an entirely different Rune, though Runesmiths only ever name something if the amount of differences is deemed significant enough or the effect is different enough from the original Rune. But more often than not, changing something simply weakens the Rune, and it's very rare or difficult for a Runesmith to find a way to do an existing Rune better than what's already been discovered. For the clearest example, see the Rune of Translation compared to the Rune of Speech. The latter is clearly derived from the former, but it's so improved that its essentially it's own Rune by this point.

So in essence materials impart reality into the Realm of Chaos, by solidifying the specific definition of a Rune and are key to its construction because that specific effect is all but impossible to achieve through technical skill alone. A theoretical "Perfect/Ideal Runelord" who understands everything and has the precision of a god could make every Rune with nothing but a chisel and hammer but it's such an absolute outlier that it's effectively impossible. Sorta like a theoretical phenomenon in physics being proofed in math but there's no practical example in reality?

TLDR: Rune Magic is the dream of every Longbeard ever, Weaponized Language

AN: Behold one of the rambles that keeps this entire quest working. Please don't break it. :^(
EDIT: Put it in informational.
EDIT June May 30th: Further explanation.
 
Last edited:
I say keep it simple. Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Might, Rune of Striking. Super heats weapon, strengthens strikes to take down even Giants (rune description) and makes the weapon target the most vulnerable locations on the target. Simple, efficient, effective.

Or switch stinking for Cleaving. Exchanging targeting enhancement for extra cutting power.

Heck make two aces one with each and either double team or try the out to find which works better.
I think Cleaving fits better thematically. It was first made for the pickaxes of Dwarf Miners, and a lot of Kraka Drak's work has gone into its miners, what with the Gromril strike (and our Runed pickaxes). Plus, a full third of the Throng was Miners.
 
Runes are the "language" of the Dawi, imposed upon the metaphysical and ever-changing nature of magic and the Realms of Chaos( Warp as we call it). Runes in the metaphysical sense are permanence, rules and order made manifest, and though it was tied to Khazalid in its very conception, the Runic tongue is permanent in a way that Khazalid, any Dwarfen tradition or craft can only ever hope to be. A Rune's definition is therefore unchanging, it does not care for time, lingual drift, or accents, but its meaning can be altered. Just as many words can have multiple meanings in certain contexts, so too does a Rune when made in a certain way. A different line, a deeper cut or even an alternate way of writing the same Rune can vastly change its metaphysical meaning and therefore its corporeal effect on reality. This is why runesmiths have chants, rites and other rituals when inscribing Runes, they were first and foremost a way to remember the correct way of "pronouncing" the written Rune, and to a minor extent impart the metaphysical meaning into the mind of the runesmith. This extends to the material that Runes are made from as well. In this case, their imprint on the Realm of Chaos carries that weight over to the Rune being made from it, adding weight to a certain definition that Rune would be using. Theoretically, if a Runesmith is absolutely perfect in their striking, they could make any Rune with nothing but will, a hammer and a chisel, but mortals are anything but, and so must tip the scales and put metaphysical weight on the runic definition they want.

To illustrate better, imagine Latin or any other dead language. Now imagine that language being formed and having everything, and I mean everything, that ever could, was or will happen being condensed down and attached to a runic equivalent. Of course, since there's literally everything being applied to a very large, but in comparison infinitely small, section of Runes, you have multiple definitions or meanings applied to the same Rune. Sorta like how a word has different contexts, affixes, suffixes or permutations and the like. So it's a sort of situation where there's a lot of theoretical possibilities, but limited practical realities for several reasons with some listed below:

A. As a derivative of Khazalid, Runes don't like abstracts.
B. Dwarfs will never think to make a Rune like that/its abhorrent to them. Like, say, a rune that helps you commit betrayal? Theoretically possible, because everything has a rune, but this being a construct of Dwarfen make, it's effectively impossible to achieve because Dwarfs don't do that, and that specific definition is outweighed by other "definitions" that is more dwarf appropriate, like the Grudge Rune for instance.
C. The more general the definition, the more metaphysical weight it has compared to more specific stuff.

Extrapolating from there Runic Combos as you can likely guess, are the rune magic equivalent of stringing along words to convey a message. Of course, as each Rune is added, it takes more and more power to convey the idea into reality, thereby limiting the number of Runes that can be inscribed on an item because 99.999% of materials cannot handle the energy of more than three Runes.

Master Runes then are special because they encompass very complex concepts and ideas usually with a lot of extra stuff involved. Basically doing in one Rune what a Runic combo does in three, but better. Like how I can say "happiness from pain" or just use Schadenfreude, there's more meaning and therefore power in that one word than those three combined. I won't make a German comparison mostly because I don't know enough about the language to do so. But I think the idea gets across.

So as an example, you have the Rune of Fire. The Rune of Fire as the dwarfs understand it would make your weapons burn hot and cleave through material more easily, melting metal and burning flesh. Because dwarfs understand fire and heat more along with those terms yes*? Now, theoretically, that Rune of Fire also encompasses fire hot enough to match a dragon, but that effect is harder to achieve because it's more specific than just fire in general, so if a runesmith wants that "definition" they use dragon bits to weigh the scales in its favour. Imparting the material's power to get the rune effect they want. In a similar sense, a rune that keeps you warm from the cold or shields you from fire is similarly derived, to varying extents, from the rune of fire, and those similarities can be seen in their overall construction.

The Master Rune of Conduction is not only fire, but the concept of getting something very hot then transferring that energy into whatever I hit. This "definition" requires either a very precise, even by dwarf standards, series of marks done in the right way or you can tip the scales so to speak by using Magma Dragon's Blood.

So in essence materials impart reality into the Realm of Chaos, by solidifying the specific definition of a Rune and are key to its construction because that specific effect is all but impossible to achieve through technical skill alone. A theoretical "Perfect/Ideal Runelord" who understands everything and has the precision of a god could make every Rune with nothing but a chisel and hammer but it's such an absolute outlier that it's effectively impossible. Sorta like a theoretical phenomenon in physics being proofed in math but there's no practical example in reality?

TLDR: Rune Magic is the dream of every Longbeard ever, Weaponized Language

AN: Behold one of the rambles that keeps this entire quest working. Please don't break it. :^(
...so does this make Dwarven Bards that can sing runes living WMDs?

edit: now imagining two dwarven rappers having rap battles that bring down entire strongholds :V
 
The Master Rune of Conduction is not only fire, but the concept of getting something very hot then transferring that energy into whatever I hit. This "definition" requires either a very precise, even by dwarf standards, series of marks done in the right way or you can tip the scales so to speak by using Magma Dragon's Blood.
So, Master Rune of Conduction + Troll Parts: The slaying of Trolls by their greatest weakness: heat/fire.
Rune of Cleaving/Striking: The concept of, well, cleaving/striking. Inflicting harm on an enemy.

Hmm......

Rune of Dismay: Causing dismay and fear amongst the enemy. Or, to use the dictionary term: consternation and distress.
Rune of Fury: Rage and desire for vengeance due to wrongs inflicted.

And Cleaving is to split or sever. To cut apart something natural.

Let me try:
Master Rune of Conduction + Rune of Cleaving + Rune of Dismay + Troll Parts: A weapon that trolls cannot help but be dread, for it tears and splits them asunder with the consuming heat which is their weakness. Aka: Trollbane, or Trollslayer.

@soulcake Am I doing this at least partially right?
 
Last edited:
So, Master Rune of Conduction + Troll Parts: The slaying of Trolls by their greatest weakness: heat/fire.
Theoretically. IT may very well do something different entirely. Its finding the right material and the right way of striking Runes that make research so intensely difficult and why Runesmiths who make new runes are lauded so much. EDIT: in part that's why I as the GM get to decide if your combo plays out how you want it to if you pick the runes yourselves. :^V
 
Last edited:
So, Master Rune of Conduction + Troll Parts: The slaying of Trolls by their greatest weakness: heat/fire.
Rune of Cleaving/Striking: The concept of, well, cleaving/striking. Inflicting harm on an enemy.

Hmm......

Rune of Dismay: Causing dismay and fear amongst the enemy. Or, to use the dictionary term: consternation and distress.
Rune of Fury: Rage and desire for vengeance due to wrongs inflicted.

And Cleaving is to split or sever. To cut apart something natural.

Let me try:
Master Rune of Conduction + Rune of Cleaving + Rune of Dismay + Troll Parts: A weapon that trolls cannot help but be terrified of, for it tears and splits them asunder with the consuming heat which is their weakness. Aka: Trollbane.

@soulcake Am I doing this at least partially right?
...huh...normally trolls are literally too stupid to be afraid...but against the works of one who smote the troll that would have been ascendant, that's not the case...and trolls have one of the worst LD in TT—obviously TT isn't the by-all, but their willpower is just so low, like an animal's. That's...actually viable, and devastating to hit one of the things propping up their greatest weakness, their low composure/leadership.
 
Hmm. Master Rune of Conduction probably still goes for Magma Dragon blood for Heat. Troll parts maybe for the Rune of Dismay, for "Dismay of Trolls."

If this combo actually works, of course.
 
There's an idea. A Rune that can frighten those immune to fear, based on our special ability to frighten trolls with our works.

Heck, even if all we could make is a Rune of Terrifying Trolls, that'd be something. Put it on a banner and roll it out when there are trolls. They'd probably start attacking their own "side"
 
Last edited:
There's an idea. A Rune that can frighten those immune to fear, based on our special ability to frighten trolls with our works.

Heck, even if all we could make is a Rune of Terrifying Trolls, that'd be something. Put it on a banner and roll it out when there are trolls. They'd probably start attacking their own "side"
Theres already a runes that do that but for more things.

Thungni gave the early Runesmiths a very solid foundation to work from and build their theories on. Technically he still is finding more runes.
 
Hmm, well the Axe's name is supposed to be Trollslayer rather than Trollbane. So maybe we focus on the action of doing that, overcoming every edge Trolls would normally have, all the better to inflict death on them.
 
[X] Plan Metal Focus
[X] Plan Metal Focus

Plan Metal Focus and Plan Know Metal are the same plan, which I didn't notice when I made Metal Focus. Since Plan Know Metal came first, I'm switching to that one instead.

[X] Plan Know Metal
-[X] [Simple] Pure Gromril: Somehow you finagled the clans of the hold to agree to the idea of a communal smelter capable of making Pure Gromril. You've got a decent portion of the work down already, and the clans are pitching in and the structure is beginning to take shape. It is a work of art and craftsmanship as the workers have especially good reason to see a job well done; the smelter will be an engine of great wealth for the hold and clans that use it, and of course to show rivals how their clan is better at this task or other. [Cost: (6-2) =4 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[X] 1 action, Apprentice action
-[X] The Rune Metal: The miners say all the Gromril's as pure as anything they've ever seen, purer even, but no word of brilliant silver or pure white streaks. Coming back to the cave days later to see for yourself and you can't say they're lying either. But yet… but yet you can't, almost refuse to get the image out of your head. Maybe it's nothing, but maybe it may not be. Its been decades but the memory refuses to leave you. You've gotten a start, but there's a bit left to go. [Cost: (6-2) =4 Actions] Student of the Odd will proc.
--[X] 3 actions
 
Last edited:
Back
Top