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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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tri2 said:
so snorri cannot imagine it, best we go one step further then. As new threats can always appear on the horizon
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I didn't say Snorri doesn't know of something that can destroy it.
I also didn't say that fully Adamant is indestructible.
I said Snorri cannot conceptualise something capable of destroying it. This is kinda more fundamental than the known threats this is more its impossible to destroy through sheer strength.

This is clearly soulcake working within IC boundaries. It is entirely possible that Adamant skinned is definitely indestructible. Since we also know that the Adamant Skinned version would probably be destroyed by some weird Out of Context Power that we cannot prepare for or anticipate, its also possible that would still be able to destroy the fully Adamant version.
 
Didn't Snerra create two Gronti bulls or goats to pull her Runemaster creation? I wonder how far she is with 'the Movement of things'. Other Gronti shapes are definitely possible, but the closer they are to dwarfs the better. So instead of a Gronti siege weapon, building a Gronti carrying a siege weapon or one mounted on a Gronti seems more feasible.
 
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Czes said:
Didn't Snerra create two Gronti bulls or goats to pull her Runemaster creation? I wonder how far she is with 'the Movement of things'. Other Gronti shapes are definitely possible, but the closer they are to dwarfs the better. So instead of a Gronti siege weapon, building a Gronti carrying a siege weapon or one mounted on a Gronti seems more feasible.
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Indeed she did.
soulcake said:
- Snerra's Epic Creation of Note, Azulak Azrilundi (Dependable Silver Guardian): A two meter tall Gronti in the shape of a goat with long straight horns. Its silvery body is decorated with knotwork that enhances the imagery of its metal fur and horns. Lightning crackles along its body, withs sparks jumping between its horns. Along with its brother, both are tasked with pulling the Anvil platform behind it.
-- [Master Rune of Waking, Rune of Load Bearing, Rune of Lightning]
-- Genius's Touch
-- Prodigal Mind
-- ???

- Snerra's Epic Creation of Note, Dawrak Rilundi (Reliable Gold Guardian): A two meter tall Gronti in the shape of a goat with great curling horns. Its Pure Gromril body is gilded in pale gold while its horns are gilded in far darker gold. Tongues of flame lick its feet while smoke bellows out of its nose. Along with its brother, both are tasked with pulling the Anvil platform behind it.
-- [Master Rune of Waking, Rune of Load Bearing, Rune of Fire]
-- Genius's Touch
-- Prodigal Mind
-- ???
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Dark as Silver said:
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I didn't say Snorri doesn't know of something that can destroy it.
I also didn't say that fully Adamant is indestructible.
I said Snorri cannot conceptualise something capable of destroying it. This is kinda more fundamental than the known threats this is more its impossible to destroy through sheer strength.

This is clearly soulcake working within IC boundaries. It is entirely possible that Adamant skinned is definitely indestructible. Since we also know that the Adamant Skinned version would probably be destroyed by some weird Out of Context Power that we cannot prepare for or anticipate, its also possible that would still be able to destroy the fully Adamant version.
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wonder if there is anything that could bypass that skin defense and damage the gromril insides? would sufficient damage cause the awakening rune to shut off?
 
What's the general plan on crafting the Vailiant and his equipment anyway? Double down for 3-5 turns to make it all in one push or stretched out over a century or two?
If we are willing to build it bit by bit we could start on the Gronti as soon as the current commissions are done, then add proper armor/weapons/etc. somewhere down the line. This is assuming that the first planning option is only the Gronti, not Gronti+Armor.
Alternatively we could make the gear first and either keep it in storage or have other Gronti use it until we have saved up enough Adamant to build Grimnir.
 
tri2 said:
I mean, would sufficient blunt force kinetic energy transfer through adamant and cause the gromril underneath to fracture? I think I recall gromril being shattered before?
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Theoretically yes gromril and adamant are still metals of the world of logic.

But practically no, unless a mountain shattering force is concentrated to a needle like point to strike at a weak spot.

They are basically this worlds version of vibranium. Can only be broken by more of itself or reality manipulation(magic).
 
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Aventur said:
What's the general plan on crafting the Vailiant and his equipment anyway? Double down for 3-5 turns to make it all in one push or stretched out over a century or two?
If we are willing to build it bit by bit we could start on the Gronti as soon as the current commissions are done, then add proper armor/weapons/etc. somewhere down the line. This is assuming that the first planning option is only the Gronti, not Gronti+Armor.
Alternatively we could make the gear first and either keep it in storage or have other Gronti use it until we have saved up enough Adamant to build Grimnir.
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i doubt we will do that we need to work on rune of light cause we got a oath to complete
 
tri2 said:
wonder if there is anything that could bypass that skin defense and damage the gromril insides? would sufficient damage cause the awakening rune to shut off?
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As I said, Snorri cannot think of anything that could achieve bypassing the skin.
But the Rune is typically engraved on the outside of the Gronti after a statue has been carved.
And it would definitely have to be on the Adamant rather than the Gromril anyway to get the benefit of the Adamant to rune power.
I don't think Runes are particularly easy to destroy anyway. I've never heard of it being done in combat, might have heard it in the context of putting things in smelters, and as obvious weakpoints I imagine people would have put a lot of effort into seeing if they can be damaged that way.
absolute_combat said:
That's just basic gaming common sense. What do you do when faced with an enemy with high armor values. Just use a weapon with armor penetration.:V
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The jury is still out on if a sufficient weapon exists....
I would bet that Widowmaker could do it, but I also think Widowmaker could probably destroy the solid Adamant version.
 
The most likely weapon IMO would be something that reverses the purification effect. Forcing corruption back into the metal to degrade it back into gromril, either in the form of a spell of a weapon of some kind, if it has similar side effects to purification this would simultaneously melt or even explode the newly made gromril.
 
Woltaire said:
i doubt we will do that we need to work on rune of light cause we got a oath to complete
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I'm not eager to follow up the cult commissions with more crafting either. The point I was trying to make is that we don't need to save up 59 adamant to start working on the Valiant, we just need enough to complete one of the parts and we already have that.

On the eye prosthetic: Orra is quite young and the next level of Secret of light is only 3 actions away, fulfilling our oath should be quite easy.
 
Jreengus said:
The most likely weapon IMO would be something that reverses the purification effect. Forcing corruption back into the metal to degrade it back into gromril, either in the form of a spell of a weapon of some kind, if it has similar side effects to purification this would simultaneously melt or even explode the newly made gromril.
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hmmm so worst/best enemy for our future gronti would be a lord of change just shooting raw magic at it until it can't stand any more warp energy and break down
 
kinglugia said:
Didn't that Valayan matriarch say something about Hammerspite not being able to survive if he even let a beardling die underneath his watch in the trial? Pretty sure death was never a possibility in it.
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Agreed. Hammerspite was personally overseeing the trial. If something went wrong, he would have been there toe make sure no one got hurt. Like how Snorri shielded the other two from that avalanche.
 
Dark as Silver said:
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I didn't say Snorri doesn't know of something that can destroy it.
I also didn't say that fully Adamant is indestructible.
I said Snorri cannot conceptualise something capable of destroying it. This is kinda more fundamental than the known threats this is more its impossible to destroy through sheer strength.

This is clearly soulcake working within IC boundaries. It is entirely possible that Adamant skinned is definitely indestructible. Since we also know that the Adamant Skinned version would probably be destroyed by some weird Out of Context Power that we cannot prepare for or anticipate, its also possible that would still be able to destroy the fully Adamant version.
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I'd probably breakdown as:
-Gromril - Invulnerable to conventional force but Snorri have seen beings like Kholek who could damage it by enough raw force, enough heat would do it, enough magic could do it, and probably siege engines could too.

-Adamant Skinned - Whatever force is applied needs to damage or bypass adamant. Snorri has worked Adamant in his workshop. He knows how much heat you need to make it deformable even using ideal tools in ideal conditions. As such, he cannot imagine something capable of doing so, even with all the runes at his disposal, unless you can breach the adamant, the force will be dispersed across the entire striking surface, you'd be more likely to yeet the whole gronti than to shatter anything through blunt force, and if you hammer the gronti into a surface, you break that surface unless its slamming into adamant.

-Full Adamant - Potential Runic power boosts aside, anything capable of damaging an Adamant Skinned Gronti, is by definition capable of damaging adamant...at whiich point any additional adamant under the skin is not an additional difficulty threshold to overcome, but rather how much more time it'd take to destroy the gronti.

In essence, marginal gains then, because any attack capable of damaging an adamant skinned gronti is capable of damaging a full adamant gronti. You'd be banking on said damage being:
a) Limited charges
b) Not absolute - if a divine weapon could cleave adamant like butter then more adamant just means more butter.
 
veekie said:
In essence, marginal gains then, because any attack capable of damaging an adamant skinned gronti is capable of damaging a full adamant gronti. You'd be banking on said damage being:
a) Limited charges
b) Not absolute - if a divine weapon could cleave adamant like butter then more adamant just means more butter.
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Or it could indirectly damage the gromril inside the adamant skin. Vibrations and heat can be conducted through the Adamant to the gromril inside and only damage it, just like you can harm the person inside the armor even if the armor itself stays fine.
 
LightLan said:
Or it could indirectly damage the gromril inside the adamant skin. Vibrations and heat can be conducted through the Adamant to the gromril inside and only damage it, just like you can harm the person inside the armor even if the armor itself stays fine.
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Only if the differential shear is sufficient. You can't do that to metal via blunt impact, and piercing it through vibration requires the ability to deform adamant, which as I said, the gronti would literally fly before enough force is applied to any given part.

Gronti don't need to deal with hydrostatic shock.
 
veekie said:
Only if the differential shear is sufficient. You can't do that to metal via blunt impact, and piercing it through vibration requires the ability to deform adamant, which as I said, the gronti would literally fly before enough force is applied to any given part.

Gronti don't need to deal with hydrostatic shock.
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Could maybe do it with heat, just heat the adamant enough that it melts the gromril within?
 
tri2 said:
Could maybe do it with heat, just heat the adamant enough that it melts the gromril within?
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That level of heat also needs Barak Azamar level of protection to withstand.

If the enemy can apply that level of heat in melee, well, they better be able to withstand a Gronti's weapons.

And if they can apply it at range, targeting the Gronti means they're not annihilating the rest of the army.
 
Haven't we already witnessed a dangerous, if time consuming, strategy to take down Grontis? Our Grontis were swarmed by many small fry enemies during the fight at Karak Dum and nearly got taken out of the fight, had Snorri not intervened.

This is much more dangerous than any kind of magical spell or attack that might just damage or destroy a Gronti.

As far as I understand it, Gronti are our only 1v1 meele counter against giant units, apart from Heroes and Brana. They will naturally be targeted by enemy wizards and artillery, which is their purpose. We don't have the throw away units to try and block such attacks and need something with the magical and physical resistance to take such attacks.

Our normal units have the task to keep the Gronti clear of cannon fodder and make sure that the Gronti can either reach its target or use the artillery given to it.

Building a Gronti that can withstand high grade magical and physical attacks (which every Gronti is capable of) is nice and good, but they need to be properly screened, otherwise flying units will have a field day harassing them.

It's not about destroying the Gronti, but taking it out if the fight and Chaos is all about disposable minions.

I don't see how a Adamant Gronti changes the fact, that sheer force can push it over (even if they can stand up) or sufficient numbers can drown the Gronti and keep it from moving.

Apart from magic, which we hard counter, there are only giant units (Kholek) that could fight a Gronti and if our Gronti gets destroyed keeping such units occupied, while the army slaughters whatever garbage units Chaos throws at us, I will consider it a fair trade.

I really wouldn't worry about some anti Gronti weapon. At least it won't be used against our living Hero units.
 
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Czes said:
Haven't we already witnessed a dangerous, if time consuming, strategy to take down Grontis? Our Grontis were swarmed by many small fry enemies during the fight at Karak Dum and nearly got taken out of the fight, had Snorri not intervened.

This is much more dangerous than any kind of magical spell or attack that might just damage or destroy a Gronti.

As far as I understand it, Gronti are our only 1v1 meele counter against giant units, apart from Heroes and Brana. They will naturally be targeted by enemy wizards and artillery, which is their purpose. We don't have the throw away units to try and block such attacks and need something with the magical and physical resistance to take such attacks.

Our normal units have the task to keep the Gronti clear of cannon fodder and make sure that the Gronti can either reach its target or use the artillery given to it.

Building a Gronti that can withstand high grade magical and physical attacks (which every Gronti is capable of) is nice and good, but they need to be properly screened, otherwise flying units will have a field day harassing them.

It's not about destroying the Gronti, but taking it out if the fight and Chaos is all about disposable minions.

I don't see how a Adamant Gronti changes the fact, that sheer force can push it over (even if they can stand up) or sufficient numbers can drown the Gronti and keep it from moving.

Apart from magic, which we hard counter, there are only giant units (Kholek) that could fight a Gronti and if our Gronti gets destroyed keeping such units occupied, while the army slaughters whatever garbage units Chaos throws at us, I will consider it a fair trade.
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Rune of immolation, giant flaming adamant bloodthirster gronti? mass mook killer. Grimnir Gronti! DO A BARREL ROLL!
 
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