RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

And that is all fine and good.
But, just because that is how you - and others that share your sentiment - feel in no way invalidates the opinions and attitudes of those with diametrically opposed viewpoints.

And, the point is that this is Snorri Claussson, the DorfSanta quest.
Snorri is the protagonist, and he has, in-character, displayed both a gift and a predilection towards teaching. It would be heavily OoC for him to stop doing so, just because a bunch of you are oversentimental and cannot accept the fading of in-story importance of characters who were, from the start, transitory elements.
Don't get me wrong.
I too love Dolgi, Fjolla, Snerra, Karstah and the other one ( kidding, kidding, I am quite proud of Nain, the quietly determined and competent ones are the best), and would be willing to face you in the metaphorical field of battle, to defend my right to claim that I love them all, just as much as you do.
The difference is, I am willing to accept that the nature of the student-teacher relationship is transitory.
I strongly disbelieve that any future apprentices would in any way be lesser than the previous generations. And as for the fading of the previous apprentices from prominence, well that would happen with or without new apprentices. They all are grown-ass Dawi, with lives of their own, that very specifically are not the subject-matter of this quest.

Spoiler: TL/DR

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At no point have I said to stop permanently taking apprentices. I've literally said multiple times I'd like to wait until we have actual usable alchemy to teach them before the next batch.

Many times I have stated my preference for keeping Dolgi/Fjolla/Snerra in the spotlight because they were the first and to me, more interesting of the apprentices. I contest however that apprentices have to be temporary characters. There's no reason they can't stick around like Yorri, the other elders, and now the Hearthguard who all regularly pop up. I'm perfectly fine with keeping the first three as consistent characters and then having the rest of the apprentices come and go.

 

[jjffjhjf]

Eh I care less about the attention paid to our apprentices than I do about the fact we have them, and the number of them. I'd be perfectly fine with having a train of apprentices whose names we never even see, just so long as we keep having more apprentices every century or two.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

Eh I care less about the attention paid to our apprentices than I do about the fact we have them, and the number of them. I'd be perfectly fine with having a train of apprentices whose names we never even see, just so long as we keep having more apprentices every century or two.

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Pretty much this I can wait like ten or twenty turns between apprentice batches if necessary it just should be noted that taking new apprentices won't necessarily create more characters nor will is draw much attention away from current ones.

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

Pretty much this I can wait like ten or twenty turns between apprentice batches if necessary it just should be noted that taking new apprentices won't necessarily create more characters nor will is draw much attention away from current ones.

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Yeah my biggest concern with more apprentices is if character bloat will cause problems. If it can be done without that then it's all good.

 

[yannoshka]

At no point have I said to stop permanently taking apprentices. I've literally said multiple times I'd like to wait until we have actual usable alchemy to teach them before the next batch.

Many times I have stated my preference for keeping Dolgi/Fjolla/Snerra in the spotlight because they were the first and to me, more interesting of the apprentices. I contest however that apprentices have to be temporary characters. There's no reason they can't stick around like Yorri, the other elders, and now the Hearthguard who all regularly pop up. I'm perfectly fine with keeping the first three as consistent characters and then having the rest of the apprentices come and go.

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I am sorry, I was using you as an exemplar of what I was speaking against off, not you in particular, and that was wrong of me.
So, Again, I apologize.

That said, I see nothing in your response that in any way refutes my points.
You are simply perpetuating your arguments for what YOU desire, which should not, in any way, shape nor form, dictate the way this quest is run.
Because, again, This is Snorri quest.
Inability to let go of the previous apprentices' prominence would, in my eyes - And I reiterate, this is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less, and thusly in no way superior to yours or anyone else's - be detrimental to the quest at large.
It is my firm belief that insisting so firmly on keeping them in focus to the extend I find you do, would lessen the quest due to drawing attention away from where it should be - which is Snorri himself. And, again this is just my opinion, one of Snorri's strongest, most admirable and most attractive traits is that he is a teacher.

All that said, I will state that I am in no rush to take new apprentices. I am simply against delaying it for more than say, 5-6 turns.
And I vehemently am against 'spamming' apprentices. Snorri is an artisan of the very finest and highest caliber. Such do not half-ass.
So, if Character-bloat is what people fear, I reiterate:
We (or rather soulcake, sorry for invoking your name in wain, oh, might ancestor of the quill) deal with that by accepting that the previous apprentices fade more and more out of the spotlight, as they should since, again: They are their own people, with their own lives, which categorically should NOT revolve around Snorri, and thus feature prominently in this quest and would furthermore posit that insisting that they should stick around just because you (and I mean this you as a true, wide plurality. I'm addressing everyone who is disagreeing with me on the issue) want to follow them more is and would be a disservice to their character.

In short, even if you (see previous clarification on which'you' I'm addressing) do not see it as such, what it looks to me is a clear-cut case of virtual helicopter-parenting, and that is hardly ever a positive.

 

[shepsquared]

Speaking of apprentices, I really hope we found out more about the 4 Snorri taught before the quest. Good odds they're dead considering how long it's been since he saw them but it'd still be interesting.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

Yeah my biggest concern with more apprentices is if character bloat will cause problems. If it can be done without that then it's all good.

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I found the WOG about that, that I was talking about earlier.

Just to clarify, since I see a lot of talk about taking batches of apprentices and using the older ones to teach and interact with the younger batch, you won't be able to use apprentice actions to substitute one of yours unless you have 2 apprentice actions available. Mostly because it makes both narrative sense and stops an endless train of apprentices exploit from going too badly. I will also point out that eventually I'm gonna stop keeping track of apprentices as closely as I do Fjolla, Dolgi and Snerra unless I feel like it or the dice for apprentice gen really memes it up. Mostly for the sake of preventing character bloat and because my pea brain isn't big enough to handle that much info along with everything else.

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Soulcake seems like he'll just give every batch of apprentices progressively less and less attention well keeping our older ones at the same level like I said so ya character bloat shouldn't be a problem and we should be free to take an apprentice or apprentices if we feel like it.

 

[Dutch]

I want Snorri to hit double digit apprentices at the very least.

And who knows, maybe our apprentices will scatter across the Karaz Ankor when they're done. That would deal with the character bloat.

 

[CuriousRaptor]

Eh I care less about the attention paid to our apprentices than I do about the fact we have them, and the number of them. I'd be perfectly fine with having a train of apprentices whose names we never even see, just so long as we keep having more apprentices every century or two.

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I feel like that is disingenuous to both Snorri, the apprentices, the players and Soulcake himself. Churning out apprentices JUST top churn them out and ostensibly make a number go up to try and avert something that might not even come to pass is both metagaming and cheapens the narrative of apprentices. Dwarves approach the master and apprentice bond VERY seriously, and Snorri not doing so, taking students and teaching them JUST to teach them? Sacrilege. Even Yorri doesn't do that.

 

[MrHobbit]

The Lost Four, may they be still living.

Jargrim. Missing.
Clan not recorded. No titles recorded. Rank and place of residence not recorded. Specialties not recorded. Not recorded as a member of any brotherhoods or orders. Age not recorded. Beard length not recorded. Apprentices not recorded.

Konna. Missing.
Clan not recorded. No titles recorded. Rank and place of residence not recorded. Specialties not recorded. Not recorded as a member of any brotherhoods or orders. Age not recorded. Plait length not recorded. Apprentices not recorded.

Thorgrim. Missing.
Clan not recorded. No titles recorded. Rank and place of residence not recorded. Specialties not recorded. Not recorded as a member of any brotherhoods or orders. Age not recorded. Beard length not recorded. Apprentices not recorded.

Onki. Missing.
Clan not recorded. No titles recorded. Rank and place of residence not recorded. Specialties not recorded. Not recorded as a member of any brotherhoods or orders. Age not recorded. Beard length not recorded. Apprentices not recorded.

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And I just remembered, Jargrim was Snorri's first apprentice. He took Jargrim as an apprentice in 480 B.P. He's probably from Clan Winterhearth. At max he was born in 510 B.P at minimum 499 B.P., but that is unlikely. Also, Jonna and Thorgrim were either twins or married later. I am leaning towards twins due Snorri mentioning them working near each other.

A fool's question, it was ultimately better to let him ride out his oddness. He hadn't been this involved since Jargrim, and that had the caveat of you barely being old enough to be considered a Longbeard.

A hundred and sixty-eight, that was barely an adult in your eyes these days and the fact that you considered it a perfectly acceptable time to take on an apprentice of all things...

Ancestors, what the foolishness of youth made you do, sometimes you boggle at the fact that the boy's parents even considered your request, let alone accept it. A part of you still feels as if you hadn't done enough to temper his thrill-seeking, and you wonder if he was out hunting a Monster in a cave when the Incursion hit…

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"What do you mean can't find anything? Jargrim's probably off chasing some new beasty to make reagents out of, Konna's most certainly showing up those fools in the Blacksmiths Guild, Thorgrim right there beside her. And Onki, well Onki's doing whatever he is that gets himself up to. Busy doing their part to write to their old master and let him know they're alright. Why, in a decade or two I'm sure contact with their holds will be re-established and then I can get around to knocking some sense into their heads for disrespecting me!"

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Edit: Konna was also mentioned to learn better when she had an example of a Rune infront of her, similarly to Dolgi, Karstah, and Nain.

Edit 2: Also, Fjolla has taken up two apprentices.

 

[CelestialJade]

Snorri has trained nine apprentices. The Quest oversaw the training of five. Every Runesmith and especially the Runelords are always going to have created more Cool Stuff than they are going to have trained apprentices.

The point is, having more apprentices forces soulcake to give less time to each apprentice, which is what we've seen with Fjolla. I find that proposition extremely unpleasant. As we train more and more, soulcake is just going to abstract it away more and more, which is what we've seen with Karstah and Nain compared to our earlier three Beardlings. It will get more impersonal as time goes on, and it will get more and more of the questers sick and fucking tired of sacrificing 10 actions that could be used for research and getting more research avenues to proc our traits.

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I agree with part of what you are saying and disagree with the other half, every runelord Snorri is able to train is more interesting to some of us than any amount of research or legendary equipment. I am not at all worried about character bloat, or the fact that the new apprentices get less "Screen Time". To snorri they don't get less or more attention. I like to read this quest specifically because I am a great fan of Dwarfs in Warhammer Fantasy, but also because they are a cause of great frustration and depression to me. Snorri is the type of dwarf I love the most, he is in fact my new favourite, and I see him bringing great change and opportunity to the Dawi as a people that they will need after the golden age, after the silver age. The greater his lineage, the greater his students, in number and in character, the more Snorri's there are out there. That's why I love the Hearth-Guard. They and Snorri's apprentices are his greatest works as a craftsman. He built a culture, an idealogy, a tradition that has the potential to become part of every Dawi's lives, given time, and nurturing.

And we see that with Snorri's apprentices journeying out and trying to replicate the feats of their Master. Finding a small hold, and having the passion and goal of turning it into something comparable to the work Snorri put into Krakka Drak. That is more valuable to me, and I would like to believe the original voters who were so smitten with the idea of Dwarf Santa. Maybe it's because my name is Nicholas, and I was born on the 24th of December, but I just recently re-read the whole quest on my birthday.

Snorri is so much more than his skills as a strange runelord. He is the "Gift Giver". That is the most important trait, lineage, legacy of this quest. I encourage everyone to read up about the much more information abundant, End Times. I keep thinking, how could Snorri's influence change that situation, or influence it, delay it.

• The Time of the Ancestor Gods
• The Golden Age
• The Time of Woes
• The Age of Men
• The Age of Reckoning

How does Snorri influence the Time of Woes, The Age of Men, The Age of Reckoning. How do we in this quest, influence the Dawi. I hope to see Snorri become a figure like the Ancestor Gods, maybe not in skill, or talent, but in reverence, in awe, in hope and delight. "The Gift Giver" is a title Snorri has been given, it is felt by every clan in the North, in every child. And now he has an apprentice to carry on this lineage, this legacy, this tradition, who is also his daughter.

I think the Quest-Master did, and still does an excellent job showing us his care and attention to his apprentices, and whilst the first ones might be more memorable, that's to us and not Snorri. We are playing Snorri Klausson, and the Snorri I know and admire, value's teaching, giving, more than anything. He would rather train a thousand Runelords, than to gift a thousand runesmiths a rune.

Imagine Snorri having the record for most apprentices. We know he won't fail any of them, he will be as careful forging them as he would any of his Runes, as any of his apprentices. That to me is still the best legacy Snorri can leave. Snorri can be killed at any time in this quest, it's Warhammer for god's sake. I want to spend that time reading about something other than the legendary/mythical equipment he forged.

 

[MrHobbit]

I agree with part of what you are saying and disagree with the other half, every runelord Snorri is able to train is more interesting to some of us than any amount of research or legendary equipment.

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You are basing this post on a completely wrong premise and you seem to imagine me as if I haven't even spent five seconds in the Warhammer community. How the fuck could someone even know about Warhammer Fantasy and not have heard the complaints about how Geedubs fucked up the End Times?

Snorri is not doing anything to change Dwarf culture in the type of thing you are referring to. Slayers will still arise. They will still hold grudges. They are still going to be mostly racist pricks to anyone who isn't as good as Sigmar. We have already shifted the entire course of Dwarf history with the Norse and Eastern Holds still remaining loyal and connected to the Karaz Ankor. Quite frankly, we won't do anything that tops that, unless in some slim chance we avert the War of Vengeance.

I absolutely care about how much attention our apprentices get, this attitude you have towards them is completely and utterly undwarf like. Yes, Snorri will interact with them, but we won't. Oh sure, maybe they'll get a paragraph here or there, but that's nothing compared to our other apprentices. Our apprentices deserve more than that. This industrial apprentice revolution is completely abhorrent.

The Time of Woes, Age of Men, and Age of Reckoning have already been shot to oblivion. For instance, the Time of Woes started because Dwarfs didn't put defenses in the Ungrim Ankor where in this Quest they did.

I'm completely baffled on how you manage to simultaneously underestimate Snorri's current influence and over rank his potential.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

Snip

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Arguably, between the potential introduction of alchemy, gromril chain, and adamant Snorri still has a lot of potential to work through let alone what else he gets up to over the next however long until the dude inevitably gets unlucky and dies to something one of these days.

We've also tossed around a couple of theoretical mega projects which could also have a massive effect on Dwarf society such as Snorri noticing the slow decline of deep magic in the future and either pulling it up or somehow allowing the Dwarfs to retain access to it going into the future. That kind of change alone might be on the level of keeping the northern karaks in contact with the core considering it'd allow the Dwarfs to keep gronti and the like around going into the other ages.

And we've only had Snorri for like three and a half centuries at this point so I wouldn't discount Snorri stumbling upon even more stuff that could have a noticeable impact on Dwarf civilization so long as he survives long enough that is.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

This industrial apprentice revolution is completely abhorrent.

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What?

In what way is it abhorrent? There's framing things to suit your argument and then there's just slinging mud, you're well past the point you're not just slinging mud to cast it in that light. We have traits revolving around our ability to take apprentices there's nothing wrong with doing so, Every apprentice is a carefully forged artisan work. Nothing at all like you're claiming. It's part of Snorris character to take apprentices and he's skilled enough at teaching that he can take on multiple at once with out impacting their ability to learn.

 

[CuriousRaptor]

What?

In what way is it abhorrent? There's framing things to suit your argument and then there's just slinging mud, you're well past the point you're not just slinging mud to cast it in that light. We have traits revolving around our ability to take apprentices there's nothing wrong with doing so, Every apprentice is a carefully forged artisan work. Nothing at all like you're claiming. It's part of Snorris character to take apprentices and he's skilled enough at teaching that he can take on multiple at once with out impacting their ability to learn.

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Because you're pumping out apprentices en masse with zero care about them just to pump them out. That is what was being proposed. All in some vain and foolish attempt to try and change what the current timeline would be, when it's already changed. I'm not against taking apprentices, but i AM against them being churned out to be churned out like what @jjffjhjf said. It's undwarf like and reeks of a fix fic where the SV character being the only one competent conceit is out in full force.

 

[MrHobbit]

Arguably, between the potential introduction of alchemy, gromril chain, and adamant Snorri still has a lot of potential to work through let alone what else he gets up to over the next however long until the dude inevitably gets unlucky and dies to something one of these days.

We've also tossed around a couple of theoretical mega projects which could also have a massive effect on Dwarf society such as Snorri noticing the slow decline of deep magic in the future and either pulling it up or somehow allowing the Dwarfs to retain access to it going into the future. That kind of change alone might be on the level of keeping the northern karaks in contact with the core considering it'd allow the Dwarfs to keep gronti and the like around going into the other ages.

And we've only had Snorri for like three and a half centuries at this point so I wouldn't discount Snorri stumbling upon even more stuff that could have a noticeable impact on Dwarf civilization so long as he survives long enough that is.

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Alchemy is something that could have easily been discovered in the Golden Age, only to be lost in the Time of Woes. I am aware of the arguments for gromril chain, and I mostly agree with them, just not to the extent that it was argued. While adamant is something which will always be limited to the very Best of Runesmiths.

These don't really eclipse keeping the Karaz Ankor whole.

In what way it is abhorrent? There's framing things to suit your argument and then there's just slinging mud, you're well past the point you're not just slinging mud to cast it in that light. We have traits revolving around our ability to take apprentices there's nothing wrong with doing so, Every apprentice is a carefully forged artisan work. Nothing at all like you're claiming. It's part of Snorris character to take apprentices and he's skilled enough at teaching that he can take on multiple at once with out impacting their ability to learn.

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I believe it is abhorrent because the way it will be written is completely contradictory to how Dwarfs work. Snorri is in an Empire of artisans. This idea of forever putting out increasingly irrevalent dwarfs is just disgusting to me.

That is why I want a fair amount of time between apprentices, so they can get the narrative love they deserve.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

Also given that the end times and whatnot are generally out of the remit of this quest anyway, I don't really care about averting them or trying to "fix" the setting. I'm here for the cool toys and characterization.

 

[CelestialJade]

You are basing this post on a completely wrong premise and you seem to imagine me as if I haven't even spent five seconds in the Warhammer community. How the fuck could someone even know about Warhammer Fantasy and not have heard the complaints about how Geedubs fucked up the End Times?

Snorri is not doing anything to change Dwarf culture in the type of thing you are referring to. Slayers will still arise. They will still hold grudges. They are still going to be mostly racist pricks to anyone who isn't as good as Sigmar. We have already shifted the entire course of Dwarf history with the Norse and Eastern Holds still remaining loyal and connected to the Karaz Ankor. Quite frankly, we won't do anything that tops that, unless in some slim chance we avert the War of Vengeance.

I absolutely care about how much attention our apprentices get, this attitude you have towards them is completely and utterly undwarf like. Yes, Snorri will interact with them, but we won't. Oh sure, maybe they'll get a paragraph here or there, but that's nothing compared to our other apprentices. Our apprentices deserve more than that. This industrial apprentice revolution is completely abhorrent.

The Time of Woes, Age of Men, and Age of Reckoning have already been shot to oblivion. For instance, the Time of Woes started because Dwarfs didn't put defenses in the Ungrim Ankor where in this Quest they did.

I'm completely baffled on how you manage to simultaneously underestimate Snorri's current influence and over rank his potential.

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I'm not one for accepting 4-5 apprentices every time it happens, but every time we get the option to grab an apprentice I want one. What's this industrial line of apprentices? I did not suggest we do that. I did talk about how I would find it more interesting for Snorri to train more Runelords than anyone else, which is to say train qualified runelords. Not just runesmiths, runelords. Nor did I say Snorri should or would sacrifice quality for quantity. I believe if Snorri made it his priority to accept and train apprentices, I would find it more interesting then doing research turns or crafting the greatest weapons or equipment.

A big part of Snorri being Snorri is his research, is his dedication to creating these awesome weapons, armour, banners, gronti etc. I would never vote to de-prioritize research actions or crafting, for Snorri, or others. I just would never vote to not take an apprentice unless it is to temporarily accomplish something important. I am completely unconcerned about apprentices getting less screen time. Snorri would not be ignoring them, we would just see less interaction. We have gotten enough in my opinion, and well more would be great, I am okay if the narrative focus is on other aspects of the quest for a time. If my first post failed to reflect these thoughts, my bad.

 

[MrHobbit]

I'm not one for accepting 4-5 apprentices every time it happens, but every time we get the option to grab an apprentice I want one. What's this industrial line of apprentices? I did not suggest we do that. I did talk about how I would find it more interesting for Snorri to train more Runelords than anyone else, which is to say train qualified runelords. Not just runesmiths, runelords. Nor did I say Snorri should or would sacrifice quality for quantity. I believe if Snorri made it his priority to accept and train apprentices, I would find it more interesting then doing research turns or crafting the greatest weapons or equipment.

A big part of Snorri being Snorri is his research, is his dedication to creating these awesome weapons, armour, banners, gronti etc. I would never vote to de-prioritize research actions or crafting, for Snorri, or others. I just would never vote to not take an apprentice unless it is to temporarily accomplish something important. I am completely unconcerned about apprentices getting less screen time. Snorri would not be ignoring them, we would just see less interaction. We have gotten enough in my opinion, and well more would be great, I am okay if the narrative focus is on other aspects of the quest for a time. If my first post failed to reflect these thoughts, my bad.

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That is because we fundamentally cannot accept 4-5 apprentices when ever we can. If we could I'd place money that a fair amount of the people arguing for the industrial revolution would vote for it. We won't have trained more Runelords than anyone else because that accomplishment belongs to Thungni and the majority of apprentices we train will never be chosen by the House.

The point is, you are trading quality for quantity. As we take more and more apprentices, they will be less and less people simply because there will be so much to juggle. They'll be names that the Quest is vaguely familiar with. That is the cost of what you propose. As this is a Dwarf quest, I find that cost to be unacceptable. And it will get harder and harder to justify sacrificing an action every turn, ones that could be used to proc traits on production and research, as they get less narrative weight.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

Alchemy is something that could have easily been discovered in the Golden Age, only to be lost in the Time of Woes. I am aware of the arguments for gromril chain, and I mostly agree with them, just not to the extent that it was argued. While adamant is something which will always be limited to the very Best of Runesmiths.

These don't really eclipse keeping the Karaz Ankor whole.

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For alchemy not really to suggest this was the case would be to suggest that the Dwarfs had widespread alchemy and possible an alchemy guild but then just somehow completely forgot about how to perform even the basics of it during the Age of Woes which not only would have necessitated the destruction of any theoretical alchemy guilds but also would have necessitated that they forget that they even had it in the first place and they've been shown to at least remember what they lost as a civilization when compared to prior ages in modern Warhammer Fantasy.

So you can't just downplay what may be a significant enough discovery to potentially result in the founding of a new guild even if it isn't by Snorri but rather by one of his apprentices or their apprentices in the future, second gromril chain isn't massive like alchemy is but it is another thing to add onto the pile of what Snorri has left to change society with just like finishing runed limbs plus propagating them and lastly well adamant is rare it's at least being spread further than it normally would have been thanks to Snorri's efforts plus his apprentices and he'll be going even further beyond adamant in the future.

That's also only what Snorri is working on right now he's not just going to stop working once he completes these projects he's going to move on and start working on other stuff whatever that may be which can potentially go all the way up to like I said mega projects which can have long-lasting effects on all of Dwarf society such as the aforementioned deep magic project. And even if any one of Snorri's feats doesn't ever match up to keeping the Karaz Ankor whole that still doesn't mean they aren't going to pile up over the centuries into something much bigger than the sum of their parts.

So in my opinion it's rather short sighted to argue that Snorri has kind of already peaked with just that one mythic level feat as there's certainly room for us to perform more of those and even if we never perform another it's likely that between all the legendary and epic feats Snorri will pile up over the coming centuries that he'll most likely have done at least as much good as one more mythic level feat in the end anyways.

 

[thefoolswriter]

I just want to complete gromril chain as that helps with the next level of metal

 

[BelligerentGnu]

just because that is how you - and others that share your sentiment - feel in no way invalidates the opinions and attitudes of those with diametrically opposed viewpoints.

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To put this as politely as I can: there is literally nothing about LaggPlaguedDuke's post that is remotely dismissive or invalidating of other viewpoints. He clearly phrases it as his personal preference, and makes no judgements otherwise.

just because a bunch of you are oversentimental and cannot accept the fading of in-story importance of characters who were, from the start, transitory elements.

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The difference is, I am willing to accept that the nature of the student-teacher relationship is transitory.

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Your post, on the other hand.....

 

[MrHobbit]

So in my opinion it's rather foolish to argue that Snorri has kind of already peaked with just that one mythic level feat as there's certainly room for us to perform more of those and even if we never perform another it's likely that between all the legendary and epic feats Snorri will pile up over the coming centuries that he'll most likely have done at least as much good as one more mythic level feat in the end anyways.

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I never suggested that they had created a guild, but rather that it would have been possible for various Runelords to have been capable of it. I do not believe that the quest will ever vote to create a Guild.

Do remember that Jorri has been in legal battles for the past few centuries (as far as we know), and well.

You recall telling Jorri that this sounded like something that required a new guild altogether, but the withering glare he sent your way was enough to shut down that avenue of discussion.

The current legal troubles were stonefruit seeds compared to the legal hellscape that came with the founding of a new guild.

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It would probably take much much much more politicing than soulcake would be willing to write and that the Quest would be willing to suffer. Heh, it certainly would block having apprentices for five or so centuries!

I am aware that Snorri is probably going to get a few more mystic deeds as the Quest goes on. It's just, how will it eclipse keeping the Karaz Ankor together? Thanks to the Ancestral Aegis and the Underway project the East and Norse weren't lost. That will affect the lives of common dwarfs more than just about anything we can really do. It's not like it is dismissive of our capabilities, just that the bar is set so high that clearing it is impossible.

 

[yannoshka]

To put this as politely as I can: there is literally nothing about LaggPlaguedDuke's post that is remotely dismissive or invalidating of other viewpoints. He clearly phrases it as his personal preference, and makes no judgements otherwise.




Your post, on the other hand.....

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Kindly refer to my second post, where I clarify.
Also, as is my wont, after enunciating my points I am taking myself out of the discussion since I feel I have nothing further to add. I will vote my conscience when the time comes, and I expect everyone else will do the same.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

I never suggested that they had created a guild, but rather that it would have been possible for various Runelords to have been capable of it. I do not believe that the quest will ever vote to create a Guild.

Do remember that Jorri has been in legal battles for the past few centuries (as far as we know), and well.


It would probably take much much much more politicing than soulcake would be willing to write and that the Quest would be willing to suffer. Heh, it certainly would block having apprentices for five or so centuries!

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Alright, even presuming this was the case it's still unlikely for it to never have even been noted that any Dwarf was ever capable of the practice because even similarly super high level practices which did end up getting lost in the ensuing Age of Woes were documented as having existed prior to that point in history.

Also, I have my bets on someone else founding a theoretical alchemy guild for us just like how we have one of our apprentices offering to push runed limbs for us now.

I am aware that Snorri is probably going to get a few more mystic deeds as the Quest goes on. It's just, how will it eclipse keeping the Karaz Ankor together? Thanks to the Ancestral Aegis and the Underway project the East and Norse weren't lost. That will affect the lives of common dwarfs more than just about anything we can really do. It's not like it is dismissive of our capabilities, just that the bar is set so high that clearing it is impossible.

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By doing it again through the deep magic mega project most likely as that would allow gronti to last into the Age of Woes and dramatically speed up the rebuilding process and would allow the Dwarfs to better defend themselves during that time meaning the realm is held together rather than shrinking as it did in the OTL.

And, that's just one path off the top of my head.