Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
I'd like to have our fifth action for a while, we've barely played with the thing :V

More generally I see no need for them at this point in time, or for a significant period in the future. Apprentices directly get in the way of doing things like research for long periods at once due to reducing how much leeway we have, so commissions bite harder into the time we have.

Some progress into Akazit would be nice.

Well obviously, we need to do the maximum on Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac, and then do Akazit.

Eltharin? [Cost: 5 actions, 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Gain chance at an Elf teacher and proficient understanding of Eltharin.
- Looking for a Native: [Cost: 30 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Elf teacher and -fluent understanding of Eltharin.

An Alchemical Almanac or Four: [Cost: 3 actions and/or retainer actions] Gain an understanding of Alchemy. Rewards locked until Eltharin learned or texts translated.
- [ ] Comprehensive Knowledge: [Cost: +3 actions and/or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Specialty: Alchemy.
- [ ] All of it, ALL OF IT: [Cost: +2 actions and or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Requires Comprehensive Knowledge. Gain Specialty: Alchemy (Exceptional).
- [ ] Local Knowledge: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions.

[-] Akazit: [Cost: 10 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Locked due to Lack of Knowledge about Alchemy.

Kraka Ravnsvake, "The Raven's Roost Hold":
Standing 9, Favours 160

Three actions thanks to Odd to get Eltharin is pretty doable once our commissions are done, with Favor spending being the main determining factor between 'You can speak it.' and 'You can actually have a conversation in it.' Almanac is 3-6-8 actions, depending on how action-heavy we want to be, how much Favor we want to burn, and how much we think Alchemy as a specialty will benefit us. Personally, I'm expecting a pretty major buff to material research, up to and including a full Trait, especially with Eltharin as a prereq. Even if not, Akazit is very likely to solidify into one, given Alchemy is a prereq for it and therefore it requires Alchemy and Eltharin to be learned. So, between 18 and 23.

So, obviously a major commitment, but there's a few synergies to consider. Eltharin maxed out and Almanac maxed out would eat through 90/160 Ravnsnake Favor, and maxed out Almanac is 8 actions. I assume it's going to be a thing we have to spend at least one action on but no more than that with sufficient Favor just like our material research, which will eat the remaining 70 Favor. Akazit requires 10 actions, but I suspect going beyond on Eltharin and even further beyond on Alchemy will proc progress on it, and I wouldn't be surprised if going beyond on the former procced progress on the latter(well, lowering difficulty really, but it would be more or less the same mechanically).

Assuming it doesn't, however, a minimum of 18 total actions, or a maximum of 23. Given how much time this would take, I would suggest we go all-in, burning the 70 Favor to bring Almanac to 1 action, and then 4-actioning Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac. From there, we'll have to see how our research list and Traits are affected.

Pretty sure Snorri would need to do a lot more then an initial project before he even considers teaching it to apprentices. He would want a solid, well tested and proven base before passing it on. Because what kind of teacher teaches his students newfangled, unproven, probably shoddy material. Else he risks teaching them rubbish stuff or even worse, teach them things that are wrong.
It will take quite a while and a lot of effort before he considers alchemy ready and worthy to be taught as fundamentals to beardlings.

I'm pretty sure doing Akazit would be enough to get some sort of actual Alchemy-related skill hammered out, since we gain no benefit from it until Eltharin and Alchemy are sorted out and the fluff seems to pretty explicitly deal with Alchemy. It may be roughly equivalent to the Pt 1s of Rune Metal(that is, figuring out if this weirdness is something Snorri can actually do something about) but actually using Alchemy for something is probably going to be a pretty good way to get it teachable. Especially if Eltharin and Alchemy are both taken to their maximum as of the current list.
 
Last edited:
Snorri has trained nine apprentices. The Quest oversaw the training of five. Every Runesmith and especially the Runelords are always going to have created more Cool Stuff than they are going to have trained apprentices.

The point is, having more apprentices forces soulcake to give less time to each apprentice, which is what we've seen with Fjolla. I find that proposition extremely unpleasant. As we train more and more, soulcake is just going to abstract it away more and more, which is what we've seen with Karstah and Nain compared to our earlier three Beardlings. It will get more impersonal as time goes on, and it will get more and more of the questers sick and fucking tired of sacrificing 10 actions that could be used for research and getting more research avenues to proc our traits.
Strongly agreed. The very idea of letting our older apprentices fall out of the story - Fjolla very much included - is very unpleasant. I'm invested in them, and I want to hear more about them, not less.
And conversely, if we're going to keep the older apprentices in the story but let the newer take less narrative space then I'd question the point of taking new apprentices at all.
I do think we could take another one or two apprentices, but I'm opposed to taking so many than we stop hearing about our older apprentices.
I want to keep hearing about Dolgi's marital bliss, about Fjolla's awkward courtship thing with Joll, and Snerra being a cute prodigy. Anything that make that go away is not worth considering.
 
Last edited:
Well obviously, we need to do the maximum on Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac, and then do Akazit.

Eltharin? [Cost: 5 actions, 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Gain chance at an Elf teacher and proficient understanding of Eltharin.
- Looking for a Native: [Cost: 30 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Elf teacher and -fluent understanding of Eltharin.

An Alchemical Almanac or Four: [Cost: 3 actions and/or retainer actions] Gain an understanding of Alchemy. Rewards locked until Eltharin learned or texts translated.
- [ ] Comprehensive Knowledge: [Cost: +3 actions and/or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Specialty: Alchemy.
- [ ] All of it, ALL OF IT: [Cost: +2 actions and or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Requires Comprehensive Knowledge. Gain Specialty: Alchemy (Exceptional).
- [ ] Local Knowledge: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions.

[-] Akazit: [Cost: 10 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Locked due to Lack of Knowledge about Alchemy.

Kraka Ravnsvake, "The Raven's Roost Hold":
Standing 9, Favours 160

Three actions thanks to Odd to get Eltharin is pretty doable once our commissions are done, with Favor spending being the main determining factor between 'You can speak it.' and 'You can actually have a conversation in it.' Almanac is 3-6-8 actions, depending on how action-heavy we want to be, how much Favor we want to burn, and how much we think Alchemy as a specialty will benefit us. Personally, I'm expecting a pretty major buff to material research, up to and including a full Trait, especially with Eltharin as a prereq. Even if not, Akazit is very likely to solidify into one, given Alchemy is a prereq for it and therefore it requires Alchemy and Eltharin to be learned. So, between 18 and

So, obviously a major commitment, but there's a few synergies to consider. Eltharin maxed out and Almanac maxed out would eat through 90/160 Ravnsnake Favor, and maxed out Almanac is 8 actions. I assume it's going to be a thing we have to spend at least one action on but nor more than that with sufficient Favor just like our material research, which will eat the remaining 70 Favor. Akazit requires 10 actions, but I suspect going beyond on Eltharin and even further beyond on Alchemy will proc progress on it.

Assuming it doesn't, however, a minimum of 18 total actions, or a maximum of 23. Given how much time this would take, I would suggest we go all-in, burning the 70 Favor to bring Almanac to 1 action, and then 4-actioning Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac. From there, we'll have to see how our research list and Traits are affected.



I'm pretty sure doing Akazit would be enough to get some sort of actual Alchemy-related skill hammered out, since we gain no benefit from it until Eltharin and Alchemy are sorted out and the fluff seems to pretty explicitly deal with Alchemy. It may be roughly equivalent to the Pt 1s of Rune Metal(that is, figuring out if this weirdness is something Snorri can actually do something about) but actually using Alchemy for something is probably going to be a pretty good way to get it teachable.
It's worth noting the almanac can be done using retainer actions there's a plan (I support) to just grab all the almanacs next turn with 70 favour and 1 retainer action. There's also a pretty good chance the odd materials will help with Akazit, if nothing else upgrading Journeyman of the Odd certainly would so IMO we should finish those off before we start on Akazit. I'd be up for the first turn after we finish the commissions doing 3 into eltharin and 2 into odd places. Then Snorri can read the almanacs while we polish off the oppdd places materials.


Strongly agreed. The very idea of letting our older apprentices fall out of the story - Fjolla very much included - is very unpleasant. I'm invested in them, and I want to hear more about them, not less.
And conversely, if we're going to keep the older apprentices in the story but let the newer take less narrative space then I'd question the point of taking new apprentices at all.
I do think we could think another one or two apprentices, but I'm opposed to taking so many than we stop hearing about our older apprentices.
I want to keep hearing about Dolgi's marital bliss, about Fjolla's awkaward courtship thing with Joll, and Snerra being a cute prodigy. Anything that make that go away is not worth considering.
Part of my hope with alchemy is that we can devolp it to the point non-runesmiths can use runed tools to do it themselves. At that point we could take non runesmith apprentices to teach them it which would have the nice effect of seperating them from our other apprentices making them feel more unique so that they add more to the story than just another set of runesmiths. Though I wouldn't mind another set of runesmiths especially if they end up settling in different holds so it's more we get occassional progress updates and they act as omake fodder.
 
Last edited:
Well obviously, we need to do the maximum on Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac, and then do Akazit.

Eltharin? [Cost: 5 actions, 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Gain chance at an Elf teacher and proficient understanding of Eltharin.
- Looking for a Native: [Cost: 30 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Elf teacher and -fluent understanding of Eltharin.

An Alchemical Almanac or Four: [Cost: 3 actions and/or retainer actions] Gain an understanding of Alchemy. Rewards locked until Eltharin learned or texts translated.
- [ ] Comprehensive Knowledge: [Cost: +3 actions and/or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Specialty: Alchemy.
- [ ] All of it, ALL OF IT: [Cost: +2 actions and or retainer actions and 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Requires Comprehensive Knowledge. Gain Specialty: Alchemy (Exceptional).
- [ ] Local Knowledge: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions.

[-] Akazit: [Cost: 10 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Locked due to Lack of Knowledge about Alchemy.

Kraka Ravnsvake, "The Raven's Roost Hold":
Standing 9, Favours 160

Three actions thanks to Odd to get Eltharin is pretty doable once our commissions are done, with Favor spending being the main determining factor between 'You can speak it.' and 'You can actually have a conversation in it.' Almanac is 3-6-8 actions, depending on how action-heavy we want to be, how much Favor we want to burn, and how much we think Alchemy as a specialty will benefit us. Personally, I'm expecting a pretty major buff to material research, up to and including a full Trait, especially with Eltharin as a prereq. Even if not, Akazit is very likely to solidify into one, given Alchemy is a prereq for it and therefore it requires Alchemy and Eltharin to be learned. So, between 18 and

So, obviously a major commitment, but there's a few synergies to consider. Eltharin maxed out and Almanac maxed out would eat through 90/160 Ravnsnake Favor, and maxed out Almanac is 8 actions. I assume it's going to be a thing we have to spend at least one action on but nor more than that with sufficient Favor just like our material research, which will eat the remaining 70 Favor. Akazit requires 10 actions, but I suspect going beyond on Eltharin and even further beyond on Alchemy will proc progress on it.

Assuming it doesn't, however, a minimum of 18 total actions, or a maximum of 23. Given how much time this would take, I would suggest we go all-in, burning the 70 Favor to bring Almanac to 1 action, and then 4-actioning Eltharin and Alchemical Almanac. From there, we'll have to see how our research list and Traits are affected.
Yeah? Something like that is pretty much what I plan on doing, and a lot of this has already been discussed, among them the idea @Jreengus had to just order all the Almanacs on turn 37 and finish it with a single retainer action. That gets a lot of prepwork out of the way without actually impacting Snorri's ability to do things on that turn. Then we can go into Eltharin later when it won't get in the way of prep work for the cult commission.
 
I am iffy about "done his duty" approach. By that standard, Snorri doesn't have to do anything to help Kraka Drakk or even Karaz Ankor ever again, as he has certainly achieved far more than the average dwarf or runesmith for that matter.

Furthermore, Snorri enjoys working with apprentices.

So, I am in no hurry to get new ones, but to never have another apprentice?

Strongly disagreed, and I would even go as far as to say that it would be pretty OOC for him to never have another apprentice.
 
I want to take more apprentices at some point, but not immediately. The feel of a number of the research options is that we have a few significant breakthroughs coming up, and training apprentices after that is one of the ways to see these discoveries proliferate. Those beardlings, more than gromril chain, more than Adamant, more than any artifact or accomplishment, are Snorri's legacy.
 
Since everyone is giving their opinions; I am all for getting new apprentices after we empty out our backlog and focus on development for a few turns. While I like our apprentice's, I feel it is natural for them to slowly fade from focus as it were, we (the players) may hear from them every now and then but this isn't "apprentice of Snorri klausson Quest" and we shouldn't expect the narrative to behave like it is. Snorri is going to take more apprentice's and some of them won't be relevant as often as our old ones were, there's nothing wrong with that.
 
Last edited:
Turn 55 is an acceptable time to get more new apprentices. Or at the very least, once our current batch returns from their Journeyman Trials, and won the right to be seen as a Master Runesmith by us (Snorri).
 
We're still training (at least narratively), Fjolla, Dolgi and Snerra, teaching them the Master Runes they weren't ready to learn before, then in a few turns the new batch of apprentices will return and start learning those Runes again under us. Even if doing all this doesn't consume actions it will still bloat the narrative with Snorri having to manage so many pupils. Maybe once the first three are done being taught and Nain and Karstah are well on their way to finish learning all we're willing to teach we can get a new source of free labor apprentice or two.
 
I'd just leave the apprentices until we have made a serious dent into alchemy at the earliest. Though at the same time, I kinda want Snorri to get to the point he can take apprentices without costing any actions and just not make them named characters for the most part.
 
Eh, an apprenticeship should always have a cost and weight to it. They are clay to be shaped, molded, and fired. An apprentice is important, and should always be important.
 
While I agree with the pro-research sentiment. The sense of wonderment of the beardlings/plaitlings we pick up always makes me feel fuzzy and warm. :/
 
I am in favor of taking a new batch of apprentices once action 5 opens up again. Perhaps a turn or two later, but no more.

The reward of the Take Apprentice action is to have more Runesmiths 12 turns later :)
 
I mean, very much agreed on this, I just don't want to dilute our previous apprentices' presence in the story via character bloat. Its unfortunate.
That is the unfortunate tradeoff of taking more apprentices. Speaking as someone who has been gungho about taking on more, one of the things I feel pretty strongly about is that Snorri probably shouldn't take any more orphans since that strongly undermines Kartah's narrative journey and the importance her relationship with Snorri. So unless we see it rise organically out of their relationship like, I dunno, Karstah pushing Snorri to take on more orphans because of how much it helped her, I think the narrative should take orphans out of the apprenitce pool. This doesn't have to be a negative thing such as Snorri refusing to take valid candidates, as that strikes me as out of character. Maybe it's because none of the current crop have the gift, or other runesmiths/lords followed our example and already snagged all those that did. But at the moment Snorri shouldn't take any more orphans as apprentics IMO.
 
Last edited:
Going to bandwagon onto the "not remotely in any hurry for more apprentices" train. Hyperoptimizing our action train doesn't concern me, but as many people have already said, I'd rather give more screentime to the ones we already have.
 
Yeah that's the other thing. I like Dolgi, Fjolla, and Snerra and would prefer more time spent on what they're up to than on new apprentices.
And that is all fine and good.
But, just because that is how you - and others that share your sentiment - feel in no way invalidates the opinions and attitudes of those with diametrically opposed viewpoints.

And, the point is that this is Snorri Claussson, the DorfSanta quest.
Snorri is the protagonist, and he has, in-character, displayed both a gift and a predilection towards teaching. It would be heavily OoC for him to stop doing so, just because a bunch of you are oversentimental and cannot accept the fading of in-story importance of characters who were, from the start, transitory elements.
Don't get me wrong.
I too love Dolgi, Fjolla, Snerra, Karstah and the other one ( :p kidding, kidding, I am quite proud of Nain, the quietly determined and competent ones are the best), and would be willing to face you in the metaphorical field of battle, to defend my right to claim that I love them all, just as much as you do.
The difference is, I am willing to accept that the nature of the student-teacher relationship is transitory.
I strongly disbelieve that any future apprentices would in any way be lesser than the previous generations. And as for the fading of the previous apprentices from prominence, well that would happen with or without new apprentices. They all are grown-ass Dawi, with lives of their own, that very specifically are not the subject-matter of this quest.

 
Slight problem with this as much as I want to continue training apprentices as well we know for a fact that the more we spam apprentices the less and less attention they'll get to avoid character bloat we literally have WOG on this IIRC.

So, the next set of like three apprentices we get are liable to get even less attention than the last two who got way less attention than the three before them.
 
Back
Top