Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
I'd like to think that the addition of the north and east provides enough extra dwarfs to turn what was a a relatively even war into a steamroll if it came to it. So no self destruction of either dwarfs or elves over long centuries of war.

Or my personal harebrained conspiracy: Malekith spends more time with the dwarfs since there's more dwarf empire to explore and go through and becomes better friends with them. When it comes time for the War, instead of tricking the High Elves and Dwarfs into fighting each other, he ropes the dwarfs onto his side via better ties with them against Ulthuan. He does technically have the better claim to the throne if we go by dwarf standards doesn't he? The current phoenix king being a dick + being better friends with dwarfs mean he might get them on his side this time around.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
I'd like to think that the addition of the north and east provides enough extra dwarfs to turn what was a a relatively even war into a steamroll if it came to it. So no self destruction of either dwarfs or elves over long centuries of war.

Or my personal harebrained conspiracy: Malekith spends more time with the dwarfs since there's more dwarf empire to explore and go through and becomes better friends with them. When it comes time for the War, instead of tricking the High Elves and Dwarfs into fighting each other, he ropes the dwarfs onto his side via better ties with them against Ulthuan. He does technically have the better claim to the throne if we go by dwarf standards doesn't he? The current phoenix king being a dick + being better friends with dwarfs mean he might get them on his side this time around.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know if this is referencing the Age of Woes but just in case I'd like to point out that was caused by the Lizardmen re-arranging the World Edge mountains completely wrecking Dwarf civilization and directly leading to the loss of many overland settlements and Karaks so the Dwarfs are getting wrecked regardless of how well the War of Vengeance goes.

The best we can do is potentially survive long enough to support the recovery and reclamation process that will follow.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
Alright, even presuming this was the case it's still unlikely for it to never have even been noted that any Dwarf was ever capable of the practice because even similarly super high level practices which did end up getting lost in the ensuing Age of Woes were documented.

Also, I have my bets on someone else founding a theoretical alchemy guild for us just like how we have one of our apprentices offering to push runed limbs for us now.

By doing it again through the deep magic mega project most likely as that would allow gronti to last into the Age of Woes and dramatically speed up the rebuilding process and would allow the Dwarfs to better defend themselves during that time meaning the realm is held together rather than shrinking as it did in the OTL.

And, that's just one path off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Runelords are secretive as hell. Alchemy is something that they would have kept locked up. Most dwarfs don't even know what Adamant is beyond shinier gromril.

... But someone else founding an Alchemy Guild wouldn't be Snorri's accomplishment?

That isn't actually bigger than not losing the Norse Dwarfs and not creating the Chaos Dwarfs. The same Chaos Dwarfs who created the Black Orcs? The same ones who supplied all of the armies of the Everchosen? I am rather skeptical of how that example would happen. Like, the Waystone project happened to remove magic from the world. The Rule of Pride also exists. Besides, thanks to the fortification of the Ungrim Ankor, the dwarfs are already in a better position to defend themselves from a theoretical Time of Woes.

I think this bears repeating, but I'm not saying we shouldn't make Cool Stuff. Absolutely not. I would riot at the idea of not making Cool Stuff. It's just that you can't really top preventing the Karaz Ankor from losing it's new colonies and thus stopping the expansion wave.

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Or my personal harebrained conspiracy: Malekith spends more time with the dwarfs since there's more dwarf empire to explore and go through and becomes better friends with them. When it comes time for the War, instead of tricking the High Elves and Dwarfs into fighting each other, he ropes the dwarfs onto his side via better ties with them against Ulthuan. He does technically have the better claim to the throne if we go by dwarf standards doesn't he? The current phoenix king being a dick + being better friends with dwarfs mean he might get them on his side this time around.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Google search: How to delete someone else's post

I hate this. I hate it a lot! :p

Huh, thing about the claim to the throne has got be wondering; how would Dwarfs recognize the Phoenix King? Aenarion became the Phoenix King by passing through the Flame of Asuryan. Morelion, Aenarion's first born was alive and known by the time Bel Shanaar was chosen as Phoenix King. They probably would acknowledge the whole Flame of Asuryan thing. They might acknowledge the Elgi vote? Obviously the Elgi should acknowledge the High King of Karaz-a-Karak.
 
Last edited:
Sir LagsAlot said:
I don't know if this is referencing the Age of Woes but just in case I'd like to point out that was caused by the Lizardmen re-arranging the World Edge mountains completely wrecking Dwarf civilization and directly leading to the loss of many overland settlements and Karaks so the Dwarfs are getting wrecked regardless of how well the War of Vengeance goes.

The best we can do is potentially survive long enough to support the recovery and reclamation process that will follow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it was the combo of the War of Vengeance severely depleting the dwarfs followed by the mountain rearranging that isolated them before they could recover from the War. I thought one or the other was recoverable on its own but the two together started the downward spiral? Basically my thoughts are if the war is averted or won quickly enough, that's a bunch of extra centuries to keep growing so when the mountains do get rearranged it's a major hit but still recoverable.
 
MrHobbit said:
Runelords are secretive as hell. Alchemy is something that they would have kept locked up. Most dwarfs don't even know what Adamant is beyond shinier gromril.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And yet they still know about all the other lost stuff that everyone was secretive as hell about yet they wouldn't know about alchemy because... reasons?
MrHobbit said:
... But someone else founding an Alchemy Guild wouldn't be Snorri's accomplishment?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So Snorri inventing and pioneering the field of alchemy and just having someone else do the paperwork to found the institution wouldn't be Snorri's accomplishment? Whelp better go write runed limbs off the list of Snorri's accomplishments since he obviously doesn't deserve that brb.
MrHobbit said:
That isn't actually bigger than not losing the Norse Dwarfs and not creating the Chaos Dwarfs. The same Chaos Dwarfs who created the Black Orcs? The same ones who supplied all of the armies of the Everchosen? I am rather skeptical of how that example would happen. Like, the Waystone project happened to remove magic from the world. The Rule of Pride also exists. Besides, thanks to the fortification of the Ungrim Ankor, the dwarfs are already in a better position to defend themselves from a theoretical Time of Woes.

I think this bears repeating, but I'm not saying we shouldn't make Cool Stuff. Absolutely not. I would riot at the idea of not making Cool Stuff. It's just that you can't really top preventing the Karaz Ankor from losing it's new colonies and thus stopping the expansion wave.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's arguably much bigger than not losing the Norse Dwarfs and the other colonies they're a hell of a lot less important than the World Edge mountains or Karaks such as Karak Ungor or Karak Eight Peaks as they're so much less developed than these massive holds which were lost during the Age of Woes. And the number of fortifications won't really matter, to be honest as the very mountains and fortifications themselves will be moved and split apart when the Lizardmen start shifting entire mountain ranges around.

We've also been experimenting with drawing upon deep magic already and we have over three millennia to get better with it so I don't see how Snorri couldn't figure out a mega project involving deep magic in that time period.

But ya colonies are nice and all but not having the heart of your empire torn apart is nicer.

Edit:
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it was the combo of the War of Vengeance severely depleting the dwarfs followed by the mountain rearranging that isolated them before they could recover from the War. I thought one or the other was recoverable on its own but the two together started the downward spiral? Basically my thoughts are if the war is averted or won quickly enough, that's a bunch of extra centuries to keep growing so when the mountains do get rearranged it's a major hit but still recoverable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe? I don't recall any specific mention of it being the two disasters in conjunction that caused the Time of Woes but if that is the case the Lizardmen re-arranging the World Edge mountains seems to have been considered the bigger of the two events as it marked the official start date for the age. Which makes sense considering it crippled the Dwarfs so severely that they continuously lost ground to the greenskins for three centuries after the age began which hadn't happened in like three thousand years.

And even after that they never managed to push them back they only managed to slow the decline.
 
Last edited:
It is all but confirmed it was a combination of outright ruinous losses from the war of vengeance, the dwarven armies being out of place, AND the underways being cracked open that started the time of woes. While it is true the Underways getting cracked open would be terribad for the Dawi no matter what, if they were at their pre war of the beard strength they'd have held out a lot better simply from having more resources and stout fighter, heroes and runesmith around. The Elgi were in comparative better shape because the only real foe who could reach them regularly were their cousins the dark elves. This allowed the high elves to recover far more easily and not be attrited like the Dawi were.

As such if said conflict occurs now the dawi will be sitting in a better position, assuming the chaos dwarves don't try anything in their normal kin's weakness, the Elgi are not as juiced as the Dawi are, and the realignment of the mountains goes only as far as it did in canon.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
By doing it again through the deep magic mega project most likely as that would allow gronti to last into the Age of Woes and dramatically speed up the rebuilding process and would allow the Dwarfs to better defend themselves during that time meaning the realm is held together rather than shrinking as it did in the OTL
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Speaking frankly, that's my own preferred take on things.

Something like a Deep Magic Wellspring/Derrick that inadvertently siphons off tectonic energies like the absurdity that sets off the Time of Woes would be ideal from my perspective.

Even if all it does is generate a gas tank of condensed energies to power Gronti, that would be more than enough to make a huge difference in countering the decay and decline of Runeworks into the future

Not to mention the Brana enabling any potential Throng to cross the overland route at advantage to break the sieges of any desperate Holds makes a massive difference. I, for one, would be super hyped about a Far North Throng sweeping down south to Zorn to relieve the rest of the Karak Ankor.

Edit:

Like, leaving the Ungor-Drak Underway connection intact enough for Drakk to reinforce Karak Ungor could very easily avert that horrific, decades long siege.

Especially given how incredibly well equipped the hold will be due to Snorris own legacy by that time period. The Far North Great Throng bulldozing their way back into the KA proper to reinforce and connect even a couple of holds switches the morale.dynamic massively, especially with the Brana able to carry word of things to the other Holds.
 
Last edited:
TehChron said:
Like, leaving the Ungor-Drak Underway connection intact enough for Drakk to reinforce Karak Ungor could very easily avert that horrific, decades long siege.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even beyond that though, Drakk has one asset that no other hold does that gives them extreme mobility and response capabilities. The Brana. Being integrated into the Hold's Horde alone changes the face of Dawi warfare when Drakk marches to war. They're huge Griffons that can evacuate the young and vulnerable. They're masters of controlling the skies and literally raining down fury of ice and lightning on entrenched enemies. They can act as insanely fast couriers, keeping communications open between the Holds. All told; the Brana may be a greater contribution to the survival of the Karak Ankgor than any other feat of Snorri's so far.
 
Mmm, that reminds me I should cough up a few hours just... harvesting things for Dawi military tactics and write up a short Primer.

It'll probably be complete bullshit of course, as we actually don't know how medieval warfare worked, but I can make something out of how they play on TT and how Rhoons change things.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
And yet they still know about all the other lost stuff that everyone was secretive as hell about yet they wouldn't know about alchemy because... reasons?

So Snorri inventing and pioneering the field of alchemy and just having someone else do the paperwork to found the institution wouldn't be Snorri's accomplishment? Whelp better go write runed limbs off the list of Snorri's accomplishments since he obviously doesn't deserve that brb.
It's arguably much bigger than not losing the Norse Dwarfs and the other colonies they're a hell of a lot less important than the World Edge mountains or Karaks such as Karak Ungor or Karak Eight Peaks as they're so much less developed than these massive holds which were lost during the Age of Woes. And the number of fortifications won't really matter, to be honest as the very mountains and fortifications themselves will be moved and split apart when the Lizardmen start shifting entire mountain ranges around.

We've also been experimenting with drawing upon deep magic already and we have over three millennia to get better with it so I don't see how Snorri couldn't figure out a mega project involving deep magic in that time period.

But ya colonies are nice and all but not having the heart of your empire torn apart is nicer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
First of all, is no reason to think that they knew about all of it. Second of all, the Runelords wouldn't have been inclined to tell people that they had it. It would be in their workshops and if/when the Runelord dies, how would the other Dwarfs know what it was?

Oh how I love the sweet smell of strawman in the morning. The Rune of Forged Limb was created by Snorri and the process that Snerra is going to use was also created by Snorri. Also, creating a guild still isn't as impressive (or as necessary) as ensuring that the Karaz Ankor didn't lose a large amount of its recent colonization efforts.

The losses of the East and Norse dwarfs appears to have severely slowed the colonization waves of the Karaz Ankor. It also would have been rather huge psychological issues for the Karaz Ankor. Of course the fortifications would have mattered. Before the Times of Woes the Dwarfs had 0 (zero) fortifications in the Ungrim Ankor and didn't even bother putting garrisons in it. Even if the Lizardmen destroy a fair amount of the fortifications and garrisons, they would still exist, and the Dwarfs wouldn't be so surprised at the Underway being invaded. After all, they would know that Daemons had infested the Underway of the Norse holds.

Yes. A megaproject that is able to cover the entire Karaz Ankor. Yes, the Rule of Pride totally wouldn't be an issue. And Snorri would totally try to bring Deep Magic to the surface while the Elves and Dwarfs work on the greatest project that the two ever did: the Waystone network which drained magic. This would honestly take so many actions that the quest would never vote for it. Like, a couple hundred actions so many.

Edit: It would also probably be flat out impossible. With a Good Enough Rune could you do it? Myeh sure? But assuming that the 3 potential Masters were of similar ages, Angkra is at least two thousand five hundred years old. Yorri would be a similar age. Based on what we know, none of them are close to having a rune with that large of an area of affect. And Angkra is Thungni's daughter, while Yorri is probably a grandchild or great grandchild of one of Thungni's older children.
 
Last edited:
Guys, things are kind of getting a bit heated in here it seems. We're also looking so far into the future that any ripples we put into effect may very well end up changing the whole game board. Hell, our push for prosthetics means that there are more Masters teaching Apprentices or training new warriors. So we've already ensured that the Dwarves have more able bodies than in canon.
 
ArchAIngel said:
Mmm, that reminds me I should cough up a few hours just... harvesting things for Dawi military tactics and write up a short Primer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I see it anyway:
In this era, there are basically five assets in the arsenal of a dwarf throng. The Warrior, Miner, Quarreler, Grudge Thrower, and Bolt Thrower. In an ideal battle, the Dwarves are able to deploy into an anchored line. Warriors in the front, Miners concentrated on one or both flanks, and then Quarrelers and artillery behind that. The enemy (probably orks or trolls) charges in, gets taken under fire from all the ranged fire, hits the line, and then gets flanked.
What the Runes do is primarily defending the line from Ork Shamans, and make particular assets in the line more killy/survivable. Rune support is very subtle in the eyes of outside observers and can likely be mistaken by outsiders for pure conventional force.
 
Ithillid said:
As I see it anyway:
In this era, there are basically five assets in the arsenal of a dwarf throng. The Warrior, Miner, Quarreler, Grudge Thrower, and Bolt Thrower. In an ideal battle, the Dwarves are able to deploy into an anchored line. Warriors in the front, Miners concentrated on one or both flanks, and then Quarrelers and artillery behind that. The enemy (probably orks or trolls) charges in, gets taken under fire from all the ranged fire, hits the line, and then gets flanked.
What the Runes do is primarily defending the line from Ork Shamans, and make particular assets in the line more killy/survivable. Rune support is very subtle in the eyes of outside observers and can likely be mistaken by outsiders for pure conventional force.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm probably gonna look at it from the perspective of Shock-Penetrate-Exploit-Reduce warfare, which is admittedly more for modern warfare but again, we have no clue how ancient warfare actually worked.

Something more strategic than the baseline. Though thankfully Chaos currently lacks Chaos Warriors.

Those guys are just a huge, huge pain in the ass.
 
ArchAIngel said:
I'm probably gonna look at it from the perspective of Shock-Penetrate-Exploit-Reduce warfare, which is admittedly more for modern warfare but again, we have no clue how ancient warfare actually worked.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, isn't it obvious? There were two teams, one in a castle/city/fortified thing and the other in a camp around the fortification. The two parties then sat around for two years hoping that the other guy died of dysentery first.
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Because you're pumping out apprentices en masse with zero care about them just to pump them out. That is what was being proposed. All in some vain and foolish attempt to try and change what the current timeline would be, when it's already changed. I'm not against taking apprentices, but i AM against them being churned out to be churned out like what @jjffjhjf said. It's undwarf like and reeks of a fix fic where the SV character being the only one competent conceit is out in full force.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be clear, I want more apprentices because I like numbers going up. It's got nothing to do with anything else. I just want more. More action equivalents per turn, more traits, more runeherder bonuses, more runes, and so on. It's what I like to see in quests. Please don't be calling it disingenuous to like numbers going up.
 
jjffjhjf said:
To be clear, I want more apprentices because I like numbers going up. It's got nothing to do with anything else. I just want more. More action equivalents per turn, more traits, more runeherder bonuses, more runes, and so on. It's what I like to see in quests. Please don't be calling it disingenuous to like numbers going up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Did he though?

I thought he just really hated that motivation
 
Can we just drop the Apprentice stuff please? Like I'm trying not to be mean or anything but this is being talked to death by now and frankly I feel we are all going in circles with it because it's been coming up every I don't know hundred pages or so and we just repeat past discussions. So can we just agree to wait 30 turns or something before we discuss it again?
 
ConfusedCanuck said:
Can we just drop the Apprentice stuff please? Like I'm trying not to be mean or anything but this is being talked to death by now and frankly I feel we are all going in circles with it because it's been coming up every I don't know hundred pages or so and we just repeat past discussions. So can we just agree to wait 30 turns or something before we discuss it again?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That'd be nice ngl. Although impractical given that the option of taking on an apprentice/a noteworthy Dawi with the Gift will pop up at least once within that timeframe and then we're right back into the thick of things.
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
That'd be nice ngl. Although impractical given that the option of taking on an apprentice/a noteworthy Dawi with the Gift will pop up at least once within that timeframe and then we're right back into the thick of things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can dream can't I? And as I said this in all likely hood will pop up again in a hundred pages or less and then someone else will ask to let it rest since this topic has been talked to death several times over.

At times certain point I'm tempted to ask the QM to step in and stop this conversation and all following discussions.
 
Grown Apprentices are useful in that they are basically random research generators for us. I think that @soulcake rolls each apprentice every turn and high numbers tends to get us an new rune or or something like that. That should still be the case even if we have lots of them. It just might start happening that he stops writing big individual scenes when it happens.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top