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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Alratan said:
Given the level of secrecy involved in any runelord's business, it would seem to be pretty hard for others to know whether a Runelord is cynically spamming variants of arrays containing the compressed Adamant Maker or whether they've just come up with a really good smelter design/rune array, upgraded the Master Rune like we've done for Awakening, or even created and compressed another Master Rune containing Adamant Maker. Trying to find out would seem to be a radical breach of tradition itself.
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It does not matter if we can just lie about stuff like combos, it goes against Snori's principles.
 
DragonParadox said:
It does not matter if we can just lie about stuff like combos, it goes against Snori's principles.
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It's not that it would be a lie, it would be differing interpretations of the same set of events. Snorri's motivations and principles as described to the conclave or runesmiths were off the Radical-Conservative chart, being all about effective productivity. That could interact oddly with other principles, as he might well value enabling mass production and so doing lots more research and coming up with more experimental prototypes than another Runelord might feel appropriate.
 
Alratan said:
It's not that it would be a lie, it would be differing interpretations of the same set of events. Snorri's motivations and principles as described to the conclave or runesmiths were off the Radical-Conservative chart, being all about effective productivity. That could interact oddly with other principles, as he might well value enabling mass production and so doing lots more research and coming up with more experimental prototypes than another Runelord might feel appropriate.
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I don't think we are that lucky:

soulcake said:
I've already covered this. Just changing the Runes around this hypothetical Master Rune is still going to run afoul of the Rule of Pride in spirit eventually, even more so if it looks like you're doing it solely to Rules lawyer it to get more Adamant. Making a lot of them over your life is one thing, spamming out Master Runes and using the justification of changing two of the Runes around it as proof that you're not breaking the Rule of Pride is another.

Dwarfs are not blind to that kind of gaming-ness, nor has Snorri ever shown himself IC to be willing to go to such a level.
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Looks pretty airtight to me.
 
Alratan said:
Also, we've repeatedly used the same Master Rune. We've used the Master Rune of Awakening at least three times, and the Master Rune of Conduction at least twice.
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Note that Soul quantified with "over the course of a Runelord's life."

We can make many many Adamant Purifiers, we just need to either patiently wait for Snorri to be satisfied that enough time has passed between creations or explore alternative methods of Adamant Creation.

Fully Understanding the Master Rune Of Purification, Condensing the Adamant Production Combo into a Master Rune, and then making a New Smelter based around a new Combo for the new Master Rune, and then repeating the process, would fall inside of the "Acceptable" range because it's not just stagnantly repeating the same thing over and over again and is instead innovating new refined processes for what we're seeking to do.

Dwarven Rune Conservatism is based around innovation and exploration of New Runes so that the Runesmith is constantly learning and expanding their craft, while Dwarven Rune Radicalism is based around taking proven principles and applying them as broadly as possible to better help Dawikind.

Thungni was rather insightful in laying down his Rules and Precedents, as befits an Ancestor God.
 
Ah but meme shit posting is clearly the height of civility, obviously ignoring that i was the person that talked about spamming smelters initially and then pulled back after the post from the QM.

Regardless of the shitposting, its clear that making a few smelters looking for new rune combos would absolutely not be gaming the system unless yall want to argue weve already been doing that
 
@soulcake, in the event that we have Compressed the Adamant Maker combo and make a new Adamant production combo out of it, would the MR Purification / Adamant Maker combo be rendered redundant / obsolete?
 
Walliseatscheese said:
Thungni was rather insightful in laying down his Rules and Precedents, as befits an Ancestor God.
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A little too much dwarf in this statement I think. Given that this is a system where spreading a rune what could improve the lives of thousand of dwarfs (the rune of Forged Limb) in the most effective way possible could lead to Civil War and people being declared heretics I think it is fair to say the system has some deep systemic flaws, but our PC is in far too deep to see them. It is not that the Ancestor Gods are without flaw it is that we are playing one of their fervent worshipers adn as such will never see those flaws.
 
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Man the rule of pride is such an annoying restriction. Just imagine what wonders of industry it has prevented. Sits right smack in the middle of the 'stupid stubborn' kind of tradition.

Ancestors I'd be one hell of a Radical Dawi. Good thing I'm not. Don't want to be a heretic, and I'd sure as hell be one of those with such an opinion.
 
Red_Faux said:
Man the rule of pride is such an annoying restriction. Just imagine what wonders of industry it has prevented. Sits right smack in the middle of the 'stupid stubborn' kind of tradition.

Ancestors I'd be one hell of a Radical Dawi. Good thing I'm not. Don't want to be a heretic, and I'd sure as hell be one of those with such an opinion.
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Let's face it most modern people would be Dawi Zhar, hold the Hashut.
 
kinglugia said:
@soulcake, in the event that we have Compressed the Adamant Maker combo and make a new Adamant production combo out of it, would the MR Purification / Adamant Maker combo be rendered redundant / obsolete?
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That would probably depend on the ingredient the new Rune requires. If it still required Voidstone, and performed the same function, but better, then probably would obsolete it.
But we could discover something new about the Master rune of purification, and use it for something else, other than Adamant.

Alexander ceaser said:
can some one explain to me why snorri has so few specialties?
he made top tier amour and weapons and some epic level golems as a prototypes
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Specialization is for specialists. We are awesome at everything, while being slightly more awesome at some things :V.

We're getting a speciality in Alchemy soon.

Also, don't underestimate the Power of "Odd and Esoteric". That's a very broad speciality.
 
Given how the Dwarven mindset around debt works, I'm quite surprised we got away with Forged Limb 1 At All. As in, someone didn't come and shout at us over it.

Dwarves, after all, don't really forget. They can lock up, ignore, or just stubborn at a debt in their minds, but they can't really forget.

We are, as far as I can tell, not really charging for the limbs. Which makes sense, we have lots of money, and someone missing body parts will have a harder time making money. Not impossible, but harder. So charging money doesn't work.

Instead we are charging them in debt. Charging the returned wounded, after the Great Incursion, with a mental debt of honor, and not just a few heroes but a LOT of common Dawi. Thousands of them, going by the numbers of toys we can make. Enough to make a major, notable dent in crippled Dawi who owe us a happy life.

THAT stinks of power grab. Of getting a really big rep to do something. Of building up a political base.

Now, it's Snorri. He's not doing that. He wants to help. We know this as players. But other Dawi do not have a magical Snorri mind reader, they have tales and stories and outright myths. They have to go off inaccurate information because duh, that's reality.

If we weren't the Gift Giver it's likely we'd have seen grumbles already, really...
 
In other news, we should skip the Gazul commission and get a start on alchemy instead of 4 turns back to back simple requests. We might get a sword commission like the Grungni pick that gives standing at much less action cost.

Really, I just want alchemy bro and I'd skip the Valaya commission if it wasn't for flexing the chain.
 
Hmm, another thought in regards to MAmplification, it may allow Snorri to power his Rune Casting using the Deep Magic drawn up by Barak Azamar.

The Master Rune of Amplification doesn't just improve a Runesmiths ability to dispel enemy magic but also boosts the power of their own Rune Casting so if we were to make a Talisman with MAmplification that's designed to work with Barak Azamar would that not mean that the Deep Magic produced by Barak Azamar would now have an avenue to directly interact with and power Snorri's ability to Cast Runes?
 
When you come right down to it the issue with the dwarfs is that there are a people in service of the idea of craft, not craft in service of better lives for the people. The idea is to make wonders above making safe and secure dwarfs. It's about reaching the top of the mountain not building terrace farms a little further down.
 
ArchAIngel said:
Now, it's Snorri. He's not doing that. He wants to help. We know this as players. But other Dawi do not have a magical Snorri mind reader, they have tales and stories and outright myths. They have to go off inaccurate information because duh, that's reality.
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Snorri did give a pretty good Expose of "how Snorri thinks" at the Conclave.
 
ArchAIngel said:
We are, as far as I can tell, not really charging for the limbs. Which makes sense, we have lots of money, and someone missing body parts will have a harder time making money. Not impossible, but harder. So charging money doesn't work.
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Since when are we not charging for the limbs? Like before we started the Forged Limbs, sure, but afterwards Snorri probably would have started to charge a fee. Out of a combination of pride and him (and the Cult of Valaya) knowing about the issues you mentioned.

They aren't idiots.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Hmm, another thought in regards to MAmplification, it may allow Snorri to power his Rune Casting using the Deep Magic drawn up by Barak Azamar.

The Master Rune of Amplification doesn't just improve a Runesmiths ability to dispel enemy magic but also boosts the power of their own Rune Casting so if we were to make a Talisman with MAmplification that's designed to work with Barak Azamar would that not mean that the Deep Magic produced by Barak Azamar would now have an avenue to directly interact with and power Snorri's ability to Cast Runes?
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Since the Adamant smelter is an activated effect, does it count as "Casting"?
Perhaps we could build a device that synergizes with the Adamant smelters with it (a sort of set combo?)
 
IronFist said:
Snorri did give a pretty good Expose of "how Snorri thinks" at the Conclave.
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This is true and has absolutely helped us not be censured. The overall point about debt and power grabbing still stands, though, as the Runelords know, but Kings of Holds and many, many other Elders do not go to Rhunkalbrog.
MrHobbit said:
Since when are we not charging for the limbs? Like before we started the Forged Limbs, sure, but afterwards Snorri probably would have started to charge a fee. Out of a combination of pride and him (and the Cult of Valaya) knowing about the issues you mentioned.

They aren't idiots.
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I'm mostly going off the scene where someone came in for a fitting for... an arm, I think, with a daemon scratch on the palm and elbow, and there was no talk of pay. If we are charging it's much less of an issue, if still one.
 
IronFist said:
Since the Adamant smelter is an activated effect, does it count as "Casting"?
Perhaps we could build a device that synergizes with the Adamant smelters with it (a sort of set combo?)
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No, when I say Casting I'm talking about the Runic Magic that Runesmiths can use on the battle field. Different thing from using Crafted Runes and their effects.
 
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