RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

JackOfAll · Jan 11, 2021

It seems that Snerra have a very good eye:

The depiction is new, barely two decades old based on the weathering, and yet it feels as ageless as the stone surrounding her.

As expected of Shining One. She have very good instinctive feel for things. Snorri likely did with Zhargall - so underlying theme of such work is Soul of Earth, agelessness, being one with stone and mountains. It seems that Snerra is picking it up.

Speaking of, does Heartguard armor/weapons have Chaosbane and Trollban traits? All epic items does. Is so, I'm curious how those manifests 'in universe'. Not as mechanical effect, but how does it looks like to dwarves? Does armors/weapoms have any special feel to it? How does traits really represents?

Anyway, I've been thinking about Snerra and her proposal. It's grave responsibility indeed. Snorri cant afford to be iddle here. Armoured Maidens will be a good opportunity to speak with Valayans, and gain their support in smoothing things out (favour may be spent). But that is only one side of equation. Runesmith side will be more difficult. Snorri have standing '8' runesmith in general, which will help, but relying on passive reputation and luck may not be enough. He need to probe the ground first. So, is there any gathering of runesmiths planned in coming decades? If it is, Snorri should attend.

Also, matter of teching the Rune on Forged Limb. I have proposition as to how to approach it - but I have no idea how it will tie with runesmith culture, so comments welcome:

I will teach you this rune, if you desire, with no recompose needed. But purpose of this rune is to help dawi. Any debt you feel you owe me, pay it by helping others.

It could work both for Snerra and Snorri. The 'pay it forward' would hit 'be worthy' and use pride of runesmith to actually make use of the rune. It also gives clear message of intent.

For Snerra, her personality works for her. She is very hard to hold anything against. For Snorri, it could potentially work on larger runesmith gathering, for teaching those present who wants to learn.

LordEdric · Jan 11, 2021

[x] Brana: Accept
[x] Ceremony: Subdued.

yannoshka · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

BungieONI · Jan 11, 2021

Tomcost said:
On the contrary, I think that getting more standing with the most Elgi-related place is going to open us to some interesting collaborations in the future I think. Don't we also need a lot of favor to throw and get fluent in Eltharin and learn alchemy?

We already have the favor we need to do so.

Ithillid said:
Remember that we only have seven actions remaining on the Chain.
Journeyman of the Odd: Every 3 research actions used for Talismanic, Engineering runes or weird/odd concepts in general, add 2 free action's worth of progress. Research gains from studying odd materials improved.
Soul of the Earth: Every 2 research actions used on all minerals, metals or other earthborn things add 1 free action's worth of progress. Work with all metals will be greatly improved.

3 actions on one turn nets six worth of progress. 1 action on the next rounds it out to a full seven, unless I am seriously missing something.

Ah you're right, I forgot that Journeyman gave 2 for 3 actions. NVM me then.

Fayhem said:
It looks like the proposed plans I'm seeing both spend a ton of actions on Rune Metal 2b, but I'm not getting it. Why is that worth prioritizing? It seems like a pure prestige thing. If we're going to focus on doing more Rune Metal research, why not do Part 5? It seems like that's a lot more likely to unlock something interesting/useful.

Being able to use it on the Valayans and a pretty solid estimation that Part 5 is just an equivalent to Part 1, identifying where we might be able to go. Rune Metal doesn't always give much for each part and there are going to be many more than just Part 5.

Theoretically Soul of the Earth could upgrade to provide 2 actions for every 1 action put on a subject, but I'm dubious of that and think its already maxed out.

DiceOfStupidity said:
Also, matter of teching the Rune on Forged Limb. I have proposition as to how to approach it - but I have no idea how it will tie with runesmith culture, so comments welcome:

I will tech you this rune, if you desire, with no recompose needed. But purpose of this rune is to help dawi. Any debt you feel you owe me, pay it by helping others.

It could work both for Snerra and Snorri. The 'pay it forward' would hit 'be worthy' and use pride of runesmith to actually make use of the rune. It also gives clear message of intent.

For Snerra, her personality works for her. She is very hard to hold anything against. For Snorri, it could potentially work on larger runesmith gathering, for teaching those present who wants to learn.

Badly I think, since the way that could be taken is: "I will only teach you the rune of forged limb if you act to make prosthetics for dawi and help me in my project".

Basically, the optics are really bad from the outside since we'd look like we were compelling them to work on our project. We can't dictate what a dwarf does with the rune at all, since either way is bad and impugning on the right of Runesmiths to self-determination.

Jreengus · Jan 11, 2021

Fayhem said:
Re: Dolgi getting Brana retainers, while that might be nice in a sense it would also be something that would probably not happen for a couple centuries or something like that. The impression I get is that retainers are a BFD; we didn't get any until we were a very old and well-respected Runelord, and it was still treated as a serious decision/commitment. And out of "very old," "well-respected," and "Runelord" Dolgi is at best at 1/3 of those.

So yeah, I'ma go with the kittybirbs now. I also agree with everyone saying that a subdued ceremony seems more in line with what Orra would want on a personal level, and I think Snorri would be inclined to respect that because of who he is as a person himself.

It looks like the proposed plans I'm seeing both spend a ton of actions on Rune Metal 2b, but I'm not getting it. Why is that worth prioritizing? It seems like a pure prestige thing. If we're going to focus on doing more Rune Metal research, why not do Part 5? It seems like that's a lot more likely to unlock something interesting/useful.

[x] Brana: Accept
[x] Ceremony: Subdued.

The goal for 2b is to have chain ready for the Valayan commission. There's been a lot written on this in the thread but to try and sum it up quickly. From a mechanical perspective chain is likely to translate into both a boost to our general standing a potentially a minor bonus to the effectiveness of all our armour. On a story level it's likely to be highly inspirational to other dawi, encouraging them to reach even higher. By comparison rune metal 5 is likely to be a lot more limited, I don't know if we have WoS on this but the general assumption in the thread is that the next metal will be T5 and that means it will also be heavily limited in how much we have access to so we will want to save it for big projects, that makes it less tempting compared to the chain which we can use right now. That's not to say no-one wants to do the T5 metal before the chain but it seems to be a minority position to me.

BungieONI said:
Theoretically Soul of the Earth could upgrade to provide 2 actions for every 1 action put on a subject, but I'm dubious of that and think its already maxed out.

I guess it could become "every action after your first gives +1 action". Edit: or it could go the PLNO route "If three actions add +2 instead"

BungieONI · Jan 11, 2021

Jreengus said:
I guess it could become "every action after your first gives +1 action".

I guess it could become something like that, but that sounds like bookkeeping hell.

Jreengus · Jan 11, 2021

BungieONI said:
I guess it could become something like that, but that sounds like bookkeeping hell.

I meant in a turn, so you put one action in you get 1 out then 2 gives 3, 3 gives 5 etc.

CtrlAltSuppr · Jan 11, 2021

[x] Brana: Accept
[x] Ceremony: Subdued.

Aah Snerra wanting to help is nice but it may become an issue.

Too close to Valaya Clergy.. grumble, grumble..

Sigh...

Dwarfs...

BungieONI · Jan 11, 2021

Jreengus said:
I meant in a turn, so you put one action in you get 1 out then 2 gives 3, 3 gives 5 etc.

Yeah I figured. Still sounds kinda messy tbh, and not that different from what we get already.

argenten · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

Bark · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

Ithillid · Jan 11, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
The plan we've been working under has been planning to do all this any way you've kind of just shifted around how its been done.

Most of it, However, I think one or both of the materials science research has the potential to take actions off the big ticket items. While I am not sure of it, and don't know if either is actually going to progress us towards doing the big two commissions sooner, I think it is a bet worth taking.
Edit: Just 1 point into either Rune Metal 2b, or Valaya's Runes is a free action right there, and right now free actions are very scarce on the ground.

BungieONI · Jan 11, 2021

Jreengus said:
Edit: or it could go the PLNO route "If three actions add +2 instead"

Huh. Hmm it might! How much would that change...

As it is:

1 > 1
2 > +1 = 3
3 > +1 = 4
4 > +2 = 6
5 > +2 = 7

With the upgrade:
1 > 1
2 > +1 = 3
3 > +2 = 5
4 > +2 = 6
5 > +3 = 8

Yeah that would actually be an upgrade, so it could happen.

Sir LagsAlot · Jan 11, 2021

Ithillid said:
Most of it, However, I think one or both of the materials science research has the potential to take actions off the big ticket items. While I am not sure of it, and don't know if either is actually going to progress us towards doing the big two commissions sooner, I think it is a bet worth taking.
Edit: Just 1 point into either Rune Metal 2b, or Valaya's Runes is a free action right there, and right now free actions are very scarce on the ground.

The plan we're working under does one mat science action and has a free action we haven't slotted anything in for both of these are for turn 36.

Actions	Turn 36 – Princely Wedding Due	Turn 37 – Grave Wardens Accept	Turn 38	Turn 39	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due	Turn 41	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
AP 1	Dronril, Dronwut	Understand Valaya's Runes	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 2	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2	Understand Valaya's Runes	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 3	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2	Understand Valaya's Runes	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 4		Understand Valaya's Runes	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens
AP 5	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Grave Wardens

fictionfan · Jan 11, 2021

[x]Ceremony:Ostentatious.
We aren't making the choice and all things being equal I would rather they be happy about getting the limbs.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Jan 11, 2021

If we started Understand MPurification, I wonder if we could get cross progress on it from journeyman of the odd. It's worth using the freed up action to get it started and get a cost and if it does, even better.

ArchAIngel · Jan 11, 2021

If we do Dronril then 1 action on MR Purification could also be nice...

MR Purification probably ALSO accelerates Rune Metal, Main and Secondary.

Jreengus · Jan 11, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
The plan we're working under does one mat science action and has a free action we haven't slotted anything in for both of these are for turn 36.

Actions
Turn 36 – Princely Wedding Due
Turn 37 – Grave Wardens Accept
Turn 38
Turn 39
Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due
Turn 41
Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
AP 1
Dronril, Dronwut
Understand Valaya's Runes
The Rune Metal Pt. 2B
Armoured Maidens
Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens
Grave Wardens
AP 2
A Princely Wedding Pt. 2
Understand Valaya's Runes
The Rune Metal Pt. 2B
Armoured Maidens
Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens
Grave Wardens
AP 3
A Princely Wedding Pt. 2
Understand Valaya's Runes
The Rune Metal Pt. 2B
Armoured Maidens
Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens
Grave Wardens
AP 4

Understand Valaya's Runes
The Rune Metal Pt. 2B
Armoured Maidens
Armoured Maidens
Grave Wardens

AP 5
Hold Founding
Hold Founding
Hold Founding
Hold Founding
Hold Founding
Grave Wardens

Worth noting we no longer have hold founding in for turn 40 so that's a free action. Also I think we should do the chain first, as it's likely to have a much bigger impact than the runes and we might end up having to do something else and not being able to complete one of them in which case I'd rather we get the chain done.

Captainwolf · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

SerbobIV · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

Jrin · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

Sir LagsAlot · Jan 11, 2021

Jreengus said:
Worth noting we no longer have hold founding in for turn 40 so that's a free action. Also I think we should do the chain first, as it's likely to have a much bigger impact than the runes and we might end up having to do something else and not being able to complete one of them in which case I'd rather we get the chain done.

Alright, thanks for the info. Does this work?

Actions	Turn 36 – Princely Wedding Due	Turn 37 – Grave Wardens Accept	Turn 38	Turn 39	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due	Turn 41	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
AP 1	Dronril, Dronwut	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 2	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 3	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
AP 4	Master Rune of Purification (provisional)	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes		Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens
AP 5	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens

Thebigpieman · Jan 11, 2021

[X] Brana: Accept
[X] Ceremony: Subdued.

Kitty. Birbs.

Fayhem · Jan 11, 2021

BungieONI said:
Being able to use it on the Valayans and a pretty solid estimation that Part 5 is just an equivalent to Part 1, identifying where we might be able to go. Rune Metal doesn't always give much for each part and there are going to be many more than just Part 5.

Re: being able to use it on the Valayans, I see people saying the chain will make armor better. Is there QM confirmation on that or something? Because right now gromril chain is less protective than normal gromril armor, and wildly more difficult and slow to make. At least per the actual research description in the action, Rune Metal 2b is just reducing the difficulty to a point where Runesmiths who aren't decked out in crazy T5 armor and wielding a synergistic T4 hammer would also be able to do it. It doesn't increase the protectiveness to where it's actually better than normal gromril armor, and it doesn't say it will actually make it faster to produce than normal gromril armor, just easy enough to make that runesmiths who aren't using our very specific items could theoretically do it.

It sounds like a pure prestige flex to impress other Runesmiths/Runelords in other words. I would expect it to increase our standing there as such, but these other benefits don't seem to be especially derived from the text unless I really missed something. If we got more standing unlocks for our Runelord contacts it could be worth it, but idk how to estimate the likelihood of that.

Jreengus said:
Worth noting we no longer have hold founding in for turn 40 so that's a free action.

Hold founding says it goes away at the end of turn 40, not the start.

Thebigpieman · Jan 11, 2021

Fayhem said:
I see people saying the chain will make armor better. Is there QM confirmation on that or something? Because right now gromril chain is less protective than normal gromril armor, and wildly more difficult and slow to make.

You still need to protect areas that plate can't cover, such as joints. The options for such things are chain, hides/leathers of appropriate beasties, or specially treated fabric.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Thunda birb

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Yandere Dice Magnet

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Sorcerer Supreme.

Yandere Dice Magnet

I've got this, I think.

Definitely not an escaped SCP

I've got this, I think.