RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[Jreengus]

Guys considering that we might get the chance to pursue a project on refining the process of making Gromril chainmail. What sort of blacksmithing tools could Snorri build in order to help him manufacture them in a faster manner?

Maybe some sort of Legendary Anvil, a room made of Pure Adamantium, sets of Pure Gromril Tongs and maybe Chisels?

I mean do we know what sort of Runelord or Blacksmithing tools can Snorri actually build to help him work faster? Does anyone have any idea?

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Isn't the goal to make it available to anyone so Snorri doesn't have to do the work himself? So presumably we'd want some kind of amulet that removes the need to breathe some armour that lets the wearer withstand intense heat and a room that can generate and hold the intense heat necessary all without using any master runes.

Edit: If the goal is just a general speed/quality improvement for everything Snorri does I believe someone earlier suggested an adamant anvil with runes of Grungni, Smednir and Thungni on it.

 

[Ithillid]

I

We have been told before that we have an advantage in understanding a master rune we actually invented so MPurification might actuality not be that hard. Also as soon as we get it on the chart we start having chances for inspiration.

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At the same time, while it is not going to be sixteen, I also don't think it is going to be 1-3 actions, and throwing three actions, while an investment, has a good chance of getting us between halfway and most of the way there. 3 actions has a chance, and I think as pretty good one, of netting us 5 or 6 actions of progress, while putting fewer in does not.

 

[LightLan]

But that's meant to become part of the Kings panoply, do we really want to have a 1 action item as part of the kings set?

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Finally found the original request text for the Princely Wedding Gift:

- [] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt.1: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional Rune Ingredients here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Snorri thinks another patron might be found by end of turn 34. King Villi has come to you asking if you would make a wedding gift that he could offer Prince Gimli on the day he weds the King's daughter. King Villi trusts that your relationship with Clan Ironarm is such that you know what to best make for them, but he would prefer something that Gimli will carry with him when he eventually takes up the panoply of his father and grandfather as their equipment has become the royal arms of Kraka Drakk's monarch and heir. In other words, anything but a suit of [Armour] or a [Banner] is preferable. 1 action
- [] Accept
- [] Choose: A Pure Gromril bearded axe with MR Currents, Rune of Cold and Rune of Fury.

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That description together with the default choice and that Snorri never makes bad work tells me that one action would be enough to fulfill it.
Though we do have a habit of overdoing requests we don't have to every time.

 

[EldritchObserver]

That description together with the default choice and that Snorri never makes bad work tells me that one action would be enough to fulfill it.
Though we do have a habit of overdoing requests we don't have to every time.

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..... What do you mean by default choice?

 

[LightLan]

..... What do you mean by default choice?

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- [] Choose: A Pure Gromril bearded axe with MR Currents, Rune of Cold and Rune of Fury.
this one? or had that been added by you?

that the request text vanished form the requests page before it was done sucks a bit.
I never got to see it, because I only started reading the quest later.

 

[Jreengus]

Though we do have a habit of overdoing requests we don't have to every time.

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Right, but if there's any requests we should be overspending on it's items we are hoping every single king of Kraka Drakk will wear in an unbroken chain for thousands of years only ending when the world itself does.

 

[fictionfan]

I suspect that even a two action axe (one for planning on for making as often seems to be the case) will be better than trollslayer. Adamant is a hell of a drug also we have centuries more experience now and better tools.

 

[EldritchObserver]

this one? or had that been added by you?

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Yep, wanted an ice weapon to go with the Prince of Kraka Drakk set.

 

[Zedman7054]

I understood Snorri's issue as, he wants any runesmith to be able to make gromril chain. Similar to how how any runesmith can make adamant. He made gromril chain, but only because he had items that let him cheat. So the goal is to come up with a process that can be repeated by anyone without Barak Azamar and Zarrghul or copies of them. Having adamant as a resource is implied as necessary to make it, so anvil and tools made out of adamant is likely, and theoretically doable by any runesmith, but the primary issue is the time and heat which no amount of adamant or tools will solve.

I almost feel like a new rune is needed. Some kind of Rune of Heat Sink or maybe a Rune of Void to protect the smith? Oh there's an idea, something to draw and focus the heat, not just away from the runesmith, but on the gromril itself to make it malleable.

 

[fictionfan]

- [] Choose: A Pure Gromril bearded axe with MR Currents, Rune of Cold and Rune of Fury.
this one? or had that been added by you?

that the request text vanished form the requests page before it was done sucks a bit.
I never got to see it, because I only started reading the quest later.

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How about a lightening axe? Or make use of that Grimir Ancestor rune we got. We do have lots of ingredients for enhancing cold power, but for the same reason lots of things he is likely to be fighting up north are resistant to cold.

 

[LightLan]

Right, but if there's any requests we should be overspending on it's items we are hoping every single king of Kraka Drakk will wear in an unbroken chain for thousands of years only ending when the world itself does.

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Well, you are not wrong. Back to the drawboard! How can we make this all fit?

Spoiler

Actions​	Turn 35 – Armoured Maidens Accept​	Turn 36 – Princely Wedding Due​	Turn 37 – Grave Wardens Accept​	Turn 38​	Turn 39​	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due​	Turn 41​	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due​
AP 1​	Triage Pt. 2​	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2​	Understand Valaya's Runes​	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B​	Armoured Maidens​	Armoured Maidens​	Grave Wardens​	Grave Wardens​
AP 2​	Triage Pt. 2​	A Princely Wedding Pt. 2​	Understand Valaya's Runes​	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B​	Armoured Maidens​	Armoured Maidens​	Grave Wardens​	Grave Wardens​
AP 3​	A Princely Wedding Pt. 1​	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B​	Understand Valaya's Runes​	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B​	Armoured Maidens​	Armoured Maidens​	Grave Wardens​	Grave Wardens​
AP 4​	Understand Valaya's Runes​	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B​	​	​	Armoured Maidens​	Armoured Maidens​	Grave Wardens​	​
AP 5​	Hold Founding​	Hold Founding​	Hold Founding​	Hold Founding​	Hold Founding​	Hold Founding​	Grave Wardens​	​

Have a new Outline!
Differences:
Made sure we put enough actions into triage.
Princely Wedding is finished in Turn 36 instead of 35.
We definitely put 3 effective building actions into both triage and Princely Wedding.
Valaya Comission Armoured Maidens is now made in 4-4 instead of 3-3 which ends up as 12 effective actions instead of 13. (Which means two boring turns of 39 and 40 with lots of building that will put our Earth Mover act to shame)
One less FREE action than the former outline.
Else only actions have been shuffled around.

Thoughts?

Spoiler: Old Calculations quoted for reference

Beware Math ahead!
If I haven't miscalculated anything this plan will allow us to do all of Armoured Maidens, Grave Wardens, The Rune Metal Pt. 2B, Understand Valaya's Runes and the other little things like A Princely Wedding and Triage.

First have a table for the Action Costs of the Requests and Research:

Spoiler

Requests/Research	Actions	Notes
Triage Pt. 2	1
A Princely Wedding	2-3	Productivity Like no Other will proc. Action Cost: 1+2(3) = 3(3) [Damn Planning phase]
Armoured Maidens	12	Productivity Like no Other will proc. Action Cost: 3(5)-3(5)-2(3)=8(13)
Grave Wardens	12	Productivity Like no Other will proc. Action Cost: 3(5)-3(5)-2(3)=8(13)
The Rune Metal Pt. 2b	9	Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. Action Cost: 3(6)+2(3)=5(9) or 4(8) + 1 = 5(9)
Understand Valaya's Runes	6	Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Action Cost: 3(5)+1 = 4(6)

Second have a table for the action input into Rune Metal Pt. 2B which procs both Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth:

Spoiler

Actual Action Input	Effective Action Input (JotO & SotE)
1	1
2	3 = 2+1[SotE]
3	6 = 3+2[JotO]+1[SotE]
4	8 = 4+2[JotO]+2[SotE]
5	9 = 5+2[JotO]+2[SotE]

As seen 3 or 4 action input is the most efficient, because they double the actions.

Which ends up with the following Turn Plan:

Spoiler

Turn 35 – Armoured Maidens Accept	Turn 36	Turn 37 – Grave Wardens Accept	Turn 38	Turn 39	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due	Turn 41	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
Triage Pt. 2	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
A Princely Wedding	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
A Princely Wedding	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Understand Valaya's Runes	Armoured Maidens	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens
A Princely Wedding	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	The Rune Metal Pt. 2B	Armoured Maidens		Grave Wardens
Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Hold Founding

Empty Spots are Free Actions.

As you can see, we are done just in time of Turn 42.

There are a few actions left over to fight over.
One in Turn 39, Two each in Turn 41 and 42 for a total of 5 actions.
Perhaps also one action in Turn 40 if the Hold Founding is truly finished one turn earlier like some believe (not going to depend on it unless we gain QuestMaster confirmation)

Edit: Added Spoilers.

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[IronFist]

Can we not make a weapon?
We have a Specialty in Talismans after all.

 

[Jreengus]

Can we not make a weapon?
We have a Specialty in Talismans after all.

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My preference is a belt of charging, MWandering + Impact + Grimnir on a leather belt mounted with adamant plates containing the runes and displaying images of clan Ironarm ancestors charging into battle. Hopefully it would create a meteor themed set bonus with the cloak and axe.

 

[Garlak]

I almost feel like a new rune is needed. Some kind of Rune of Heat Sink or maybe a Rune of Void to protect the smith? Oh there's an idea, something to draw and focus the heat, not just away from the runesmith, but on the gromril itself to make it malleable.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the heat thing. It both needs great amounts of heat, and an ability to defend against it. Not sure about a new rune specifically, but... Well.

That sounds to me like maybe what is needed, might be...

Master Rune of Purification/Snorri Gift Giver, Necessary Ingredients: [T4] Voidstone: Used to create Adamant, the Rune flushes out impure magic in a way that produces enough radiant heat energy to melt the Pure Gromril bar.

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Combo, Adamant Maker: [Master Rune of Purification/Snorri Gift Giver, Rune of Warding, Rune of Spellbreaking] [A Rune array whose sole purpose is meant to channel the titanic energy needed to purify Gromril to the point that it becomes Adamant without destroying the smelter itself. The cost is so exorbitant that the array must spend a decade recharging.] The bar grows bright as the energy is pumped through it, growing so bright that it becomes near blinding before settling down to a sheen of silver said to bring a tear to the eye.

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... A compressed combo of Adamant Maker. MPurification produces tons and tons of heat; Adamant Maker channels energy and heat.

Or at least, well, might be necessary to look into our Adamant smelter design and the runes for it and start trying to figure out a way to make a totally different smelter or a way to Ward a room against heat, using principles derived from Adamant Maker's super-smelter design.


Or maybe you're right about a new rune needed.

Maybe what is needed, is a rune that captures all the heat in an area and transfers it away. (Sort of similar to Glory and Grudges fire-related runes. Swallowing up all the heat and fire in a room.)

 

[Zedman7054]

Can we not make a weapon?
We have a Specialty in Talismans after all.

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I mean, that may be Snorri's specialty, by many of our legendary and epic items are weapons. Trollslayer and Zharrguf and the two bolt throwers. Barak Azamar, our greatest work yet is a suit of armour. Specialty doesn't mean we can't make good things in the other categories.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Can we not make a weapon?
We have a Specialty in Talismans after all.

Click to shrink...

Most of the planning went into talismans, I assume the leading plans are still some variation of the kingship talisman.

My preference is a belt of charging, MWandering + Impact + Grimnir on a leather belt mounted with adamant plates containing the runes and displaying images of clan Ironarm ancestors charging into battle. Hopefully it would create a meteor themed set bonus with the cloak and axe.

Click to shrink...

Well, we wouldn't know for a couple of centuries...

 

[Jreengus]

Well, we wouldn't know for a couple of centuries...

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Maybe not, so far we haven't had to see any of the rune combos or Snerras set bonuses in action to actually know what they do, maybe we'd know the set bonus exists as soon as we create the item.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Maybe not, so far we haven't had to see any of the rune combos or Snerras set bonuses in action to actually know what they do, maybe we'd know the set bonus exists as soon as we create the item.

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I'm making that assumption on the basis that we won't know a set is a set until we see them all together.
If we're making this for Gimli then we won't see if it combos with the heirs set until Gloin becomes king and we won't see if it combos with Meteorfall until he abdicates/dies.

Just imagining forwards in time, its not always going to be practical for soulcake to consider every possible set we could make with our creations and to decide which ones combo.

 

[Jreengus]

I'm making that assumption on the basis that we won't know a set is a set until we see them all together.
If we're making this for Gimli then we won't see if it combos with the heirs set until Gloin becomes king and we won't see if it combos with Meteorfall until he abdicates/dies.

Just imagining forwards in time, its not always going to be practical for soulcake to consider every possible set we could make with our creations and to decide which ones combo.

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I'm mainly just hoping that if we make an item with the intent of becoping part of the king's gear Soulcake will throw us a bone and let us know if we have succeeded in making a set bonus rather than making us wait dozens of turns for Gimli to become king only to realize we need to make another different item to complete the set.

 

[Jrin]

Urgh I feel antsy with the amount of projects in front of us before we finally get our elf interaction and translation, is there any way we can bring the elf interaction project forward?

 

[Alratan]

If we do develop a new (non-master) rune to make Gromril Chain, then it would seem interesting to combine that with a compressed Adamant-Maker to see how far that is away from making adamant chain.

Further investigation into Chamon spells might also provide inspiration into Gromril chain. There are spells using that Wind that allow a wizard to freely change metal items that they touch into another shape, and other, simpler ones, that temporarily alter their physical properties so they can be physically shaped like clay. A runic/alchemical procedure that temporarily does the later to gromril seems plausible.

 

[fictionfan]

My preference is a belt of charging, MWandering + Impact + Grimnir on a leather belt mounted with adamant plates containing the runes and displaying images of clan Ironarm ancestors charging into battle. Hopefully it would create a meteor themed set bonus with the cloak and axe.

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Belt of the juggernaut would be really cool.

 

[Alratan]

The thing is, what Gimli needs isn't additional combat capability. He's killy enough. And if he's not, then that's what his Champion is for. What he needs is something to help him become a better King. That's something that he needs to near uniquely do. Lots of different people can be exceptionally good warriors in the Hold. Only one person makes the final call on the big decisions, and that will be him.

We're also, it seems, moving into a more peaceful period of expansion. This is a time that a King needs ploughshares, not swords. I think this is a change Snorri should lead. When it was the Great Chaos Incursions and the build up to it, it was a time for war, so he made the Kings of Kraka Drakk weapons and armour. That time is over, and it's a more hopeful age, so he's making them tools to help them rule rather than kill.

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

I'm not a massive fan of this plan, it gives us 1 overflow on each of Grave wardens and maidens but at the cost of getting 2 overflow on the limbs which I'd much rather have. Plus going 4/4 on the commissions gives us the free actions earlier to also finish off the odd materials especially Zhufazul which we might want to use on the wedding gift.

Edit: Actually do we know how many actions the limbs take? Based on the FAQ it should be two I think so this wouldn't complete them.



Edit2: To clarify my preferred plan would be:

35: 2 on limbs; 1 on planning wedding gift; 1 on zufazul
36: 2 on Gift; 1 on dronril (or something else); 1 on 2b
37: finish 2b
38: The basket (or something else maybe)
39: 4 on Valaya
40: 4 on Valaya (1 free?)
41: 4 on Gazul 1 free
42: 4 on Gazul 1 free

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Still my prefered plan. I like the idea of two actioning pt2 of difficult requests in general unless it's like personal gear or masterwork attempts. It also keeps the big projects back to back over turns rather than spreading it out which would keep the narrative more centered rather than going halfway through the basket to rune metal then basket and rune metal again. Also, we're kinda fishing for the mat sci to proc extra gains on something useful so doing that earlier is preferable.

 

[fictionfan]

The thing is, what Gimli needs isn't additional combat capability. He's killy enough. And if he's not, then that's what his Champion is for. What he needs is something to help him become a better King. That's something that he needs to near uniquely do. Lots of different people can be exceptionally good warriors in the Hold. Only one person makes the final call on the big decisions, and that will be him.

We're also, it seems, moving into a more peaceful period of expansion. This is a time that a King needs ploughshares, not swords. I think this is a change Snorri should lead. When it was the Great Chaos Incursions and the build up to it, it was a time for war, so he made the Kings of Kraka Drakk weapons and armour. That time is over, and it's a more hopeful age, so he's making them tools to help them rule rather than kill.

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Unfortunately as far as I can tell we lack the ability to give him that.