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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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soulcake said:
I'm confused by the wording here. Getting the Runes inevitably gives you research for Movement of Things if you're talking about the Runes of Waking variants.
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I was asking if the runes we got from her would in turn reduce the amount of movement of things pips we got from her because the rune being known reduces the tricks she can teach.


Basically i was asking if the movement of things was a hard cap or soft cap which would mean we can get bonkers MoT progress.
 
@soulcake, I'm deeply confused as to why Valma needs us to trade her the Mountainsouled combo. Unyielding, yes, sure, she needs the secrets of how the Rune is struck, but the combo? Once she has Unyielding, can't she just literally look at our armour? She has to know stone and Fortitude already.
 
dang I want to give the mountainsoul combo Whoever that would max our hesitance even if we take the only - action since trading unyielding would add one. So It would be2/2 hesitance. AT most im fine with 1/2. So the trade I would do would be something like this.

[] Bare minimum
-[] Sell:
--[] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[] Buy:
--[] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-- []The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points

Points: 1 (1 base + 10 gained 10 lost)
Hesitance: 0 (1 gained 1 lost)

Basically this would if im understanding correctly hopefully help her down the path without making snorri hesitant. It doesn't give any other beniefts of the trades though so I'll look for a plan i like more from the comments now.

editing myu plan since i forgot mind of things lid to bad things potentially went for 'makerstrike' because I saw someone saying it was connected, However that would be something that she can see an action and easily cross that out of her reasearch if its not, In return I added the currently translated book because the other one says 'future translations' not current So grabbing that, and having the meteorstrike trade being something like I'll give you this rune and this combo in exchange for access to future translated books along with the current one. Something along those lines.
 
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Lalzparty said:
I guess Gazul approves of our oath.
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Its a hard one, that is for sure. Or it should be, because this is going to be our goddamn life going into this for a long, long time and we'll be seeing the marks left until the stonework erodes smooth in the wind.

But it, for him, was no choice at all was simply the obvious and proper way of things. That is the sort of unspoken order most dawi merely aspire to in their best moments.

I'm glad we received nothing shiny. It would have felt wrong.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
@soulcake, I'm deeply confused as to why Valma needs us to trade her the Mountainsouled combo. Unyielding, yes, sure, she needs the secrets of how the Rune is struck, but the combo? Once she has Unyielding, can't she just literally look at our armour? She has to know stone and Fortitude already.
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For mountainsouled it's definitely more the reagent you used to make this version of it.
 
OK, way I see it, Makerstrike, Unyielding, Mind of Things, and Waking non-dwarf are the only things that seem deep-magic related.

Makerstrike: It makes runes last longer, which certainly seems like it is potentially drawing on the deep magic. And if not, it would still likely help channel what deep magic one can access, so that it is more effective. Even if it doesn't do what I think it does, it'll still be helpful to her.

Unyielding: The master rune of our combo, and likely a good chunk of what let us get it in the first place. Should probably let her know about the non-standard ingredient even if not the combo. However we don't actually know how important this rune was, or whether any rune empowered with the heard would have drawn deep magic. I'm wary of giving this over and implying it will help, without actually understanding well enough to know if that is true.

Mind of Things: ended up with a LOT of tie-ins to the master rune of waking, which is the one non-us use of deep magic we know about, so there's likely a lot of insight there, even if we ourselves haven;t plumbed those depths yet.

Waking non-dwarf: same reasoning as mind of things, except more directly related to rune of waking.

As for things we buy, I mostly want books, as that's the only thing that's really unique to this opportunity for the immediate future, and because it is the only real way to get past Durin's consternation. Don't get me wrong, the other runes and stuff are great, but I want to keep this trade small for reasons noted in my prior post. On the other hand, if we give non-dwarf waking, it might be a fairer trade to get a waking rune back, just because regardless of how things go that feels like a fair trade. So what I propose is this:

[] Plan small but focused
-[] Sell
--[] Makerstrike
--[] Waking non-dwarf
-[] Buy
--[] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery
--[] Tome on Aqshy
--[] Tome on Hysh
--[] Understanding Elementales/Constructs


On the buy side we get all the books she currently has, which will get us a good amount of insight into the winds of magic. I considered going for translations, but honestly our research backlog is big enough as it is. We're likely to take a century or more to even research these books, so purchasing the right to buy more just feels redundant. Research we don't have time to do isn't worth much. And on the sell side, these are the only things I am really comfortable trading here. Unyielding - while valuable - potentially gets all of its oomph from the greedy one's heart, rather than the rune itself, and selling something like this without knowing how related it is feels like it could too easily steer her down the wrong path. And while the mind of things hints at a connection, I'm not confident enough that that connection actually ties into the rune of waking deep magic power source, rather than the animation of the gronti - which while interesting isn't what she is looking for.
 
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I really hope we don't give away our deep magic runes. That should not be traded to any random runelord. Save that for our apprentices or eventual children.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
@soulcake : What is "Hesitance" for the trade?
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Hesitance is a measure of snorri's own...well hesitance, to offer up something. Its a question of worthiness when it comes to Runesmith knowledge, so if Snorri doesn't think this peson is worthy straight up the item wont appear (Master Rune of Purification) but there are edge cases where there is the possibility of their worthiness and it really comes down to how much faith Snorri has in their ability that he hasn't yet seen. Rune Trade of 172 has a bit more info I think.
 
@soulcake do we have to worry about leading Valma astray if we dump a lot of runes on her or will Snorri be smart enough to specify what is and isn't connected to Deep Magic to her?
 
Huh, ties might actually lead to the rune of Fate. That's pretty neat. It looks like cutting or fire would have lead to a demon permakilling rune. As for the rune trade, I like Bungie's plan if only for the MLightning/vitality. We really need more talisman and engineering runes and vitality is like the only other regen rune we've seen outside of Unyielding.
 
Here is my proposal. It trades most things except for the mind of things and prothesis runes.

It gets all of the waking runes, enough research to get the next level of Motion of Things, all of the current books and rights to the future books, the rune of empowerment, and +1 standing with her so we get her standing 8 perk.

Sell List:
- Master Runes:
-- Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
-- Currents, Worth: 4 points
-- Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
-- Infernos, Worth: 4 points
-- Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
-- Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
-- Traversal, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
-- Wandering, Worth 4 points
-- Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
- Regular Runes:
-- Refraction, Worth: 1 point
-- Speech, Worth: 2 points
-- Sound, Worth: 1 point
- Combo:**
-- Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-1 base point
total = 48 points +2 hesitance

Buy List:
- Master Rune:
-- Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-- Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
-- Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-- Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
- Regular Runes:
-- Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
-- Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
- Elgi Magical Textbooks:
-- The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
-- In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 2 points per book, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs)
-- Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
- Research:*
-- Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total

22 points for all of the waking runes and 5 points of movement of things to get it fully researched.
10 points for all current/in progress books
8 points for future books
3 points rune of empowerment
5 points - +1 standing to get her to standing 8 and get her next standing perk
22+10+8+3+5 = 48 - 1 hesitance
 
I'm in favor of as big of a rune trade as we can get away with, pretty much everything but prosthesis and forged limb. Spreading rune knowledge between runelords is a good way to slow down the loss of runic knowledge.
 
Once we get back to work - and get hold founding off the plate - we should actually do some deep magic research. Either understanding master rune of waking, or understanding master rune of unyielding. Both seem good avenues. The first because it is definately a way down, and the latter because it will clarify whether it was a dead end - and solely dependant on the Greedy One's heart for the deep magic - or potentially open a new pathway that likely no other runelord has found yet (baring Ancestors of course).

BungieONI said:
Good good, then I'm gonna advocate for dumping everything we can and getting everything we can from her, seems fairest to me.
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Keep in mind that we're already pushing the guild boundaries with the forged limb thing. If we're ever called on to defend ourselves - and I expect that to happen sooner or later, as it would be kinda dissapointing if the practice didn't eventually spread - we'll want to show that yes we are treating our craft with the proper respect. I think that going crazy on the rune trades would probably make it a lot more difficult to argue that.
 
maplejvl said:
Why do we need to give her mountain-souled again?
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we dont. and i dont want to. keep hesitance to 1.


as a reminder of how hesitance works for the last rune trade:

"... Hesitance which is indicative of what Snorri personally feels like may be a bit too much for Lorna to chew. Note, Snorri won't rebel against your actions, everything here is the upper most limit of what he's willing to give IC. That said, you obviously cannot go over the Hesitance limit, and there are narrative consequences to hitting that limit as well. "
 
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I would suggest not to blindly trade away everything that we possibility can, remember that we also have to take into consideration what other dwarves will think of us trading all this knowledge. At the end of the day Snorri is still a dwarf and ultimately conservative.
 
I'm also against trading everything. We need to keep in mind Snorri's position. Being too liberal in trading Runes, even Runes that aren't something like Prosthesis can have the rest of the Runelords look at Snorri in askance.

Let's not jump into full trades please.
 
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