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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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maplejvl said:
I would suggest not to blindly trade away everything that we possibility can, remember that we also have to take into consideration what other dwarves will think of us trading all this knowledge. At the end of the day Snorri is still a dwarf and ultimately conservative.
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my proposal trades a lot, but explicitly holds back some important things. in return, we get a lot of runes we really want and save ~3 turns worth of research actions. that is almost invaluable.

and if we dont take those elf books now, we will probably never see them
 
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[X] Plan: Maximum, No Research Collab
-[X] Sell
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[X] Traversal, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[X] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
--[X] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[X] Prosthesis, Worth: 3 points
--[X] Forged Limb, Worth: 3 points
--[X] Sound, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Mind of Things, Worth: 2 points to get her started down the path, +1 point per extra progress, max 9 points total (so 2 + 7 points of extra progress hypothetically).
----[X] 2 points worth
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
49 points worth +1 point = 50

-[X] Buy
--[X] Vitality [Talismanic]: The bearer gains Regeneration and improvement to toughness and endurance), Cost: 4 points
--[X] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Perception [Engineering]: Crew are more aware of their surroundings, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Quick wits [Engineering]: Crew have higher reaction speeds, Cost: 2 points
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 2 points per book, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs)
---[X] Tomes on Azyr
---[X] Tomes on Aqshy
---[X] Tomes on Hysh
---[X] Understanding Elementales/Constructs
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
50 points total cost
 
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DarknessSmiles said:
my proposal trades a lot, but explicitly holds back some important things. in return, we get a lot of runes we really want and save ~3 turns worth of research actions. that is almost invaluable.

and if we dont take those elf books now, we will probably never see them
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If you're talking about the Azyr and other potential translations that isn't backed up anywhere, and right to all future translations means we'll have another trade with her in future where its entirely likely those can come up again. Regardless.


[X] Plan Almost Full Throttle
-[X] Sell List:
-[X] Master Runes:
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[X] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[X] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[X] Sound, Worth: 1 point
-[X] Combo:**
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[X] Buy List:
-[X] Master Rune:
--[X] Vitality [Talismanic]: The bearer gains Regeneration and improvement to toughness and endurance), Cost: 4 points
--[X] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Perception [Engineering]: Crew are more aware of their surroundings, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Quick wits [Engineering]: Crew have higher reaction speeds, Cost: 2 points
-[] Elgi Magical Textbooks:
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[X] Research:*
-[X] Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total. 3 points.
Total point cost= 1+41 - 42 = 0

That trades most of what we know and gets us:

-7 progress on Movement of Things.
-The Perception and Quick Wits runes we weren't able to get from Lorna last time around, as well as the Vitality and Lightning Strikes runes from the same.
-It drops the Waking Weapon version since that isn't that useful to us at the moment and with all the other waking stuff the Understand project on Master Rune of Waking would be small.
-In terms of the books it buys the Chamon book, and gives us a hook for future trades with Valma for the sake of eventually purchasing others. This also works well with the plan to give her a hint towards Mountainsouled, as it gives us a reason to check on her later.
-0 Hesitance.

Also worth mentioning that Wandering is related to Traversal in some way most likely, so that's another path for her to go down if she wants to get the Traversal rune.
 
A conservative plan that focuses on the things that both sides want the most: stuff mostly related to how we found deep magic in exchange for books.

[X] Plan Mountainsouled Hint
-[X] Selling
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Prosthesis, Worth: 3 points
--[X] Mind of Things, Worth: 3 pts (2+1)
-[X] Buying
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 8 pts, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs )
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
--[X] Movement of Things, Cost: 2 pts

[X] Plan Almost Full Throttle
 
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BungieONI said:
If you're talking about the Azyr and other potential translations that isn't backed up anywhere, and right to all future translations means we'll have another trade with her in future where its entirely likely those can come up again. Regardless.


[X] Plan Almost Full Throttle
-[X] Sell List:
-[X] Master Runes:
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[X] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[X] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[X] Sound, Worth: 1 point
-[X] Combo:**
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[X] Buy List:
-[X] Master Rune:
--[X] Vitality [Talismanic]: The bearer gains Regeneration and improvement to toughness and endurance), Cost: 4 points
--[X] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Perception [Engineering]: Crew are more aware of their surroundings, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Quick wits [Engineering]: Crew have higher reaction speeds, Cost: 2 points
-[] Elgi Magical Textbooks:
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[X] Research:*
-[X] Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total. 3 points.
Total point cost= 1+41 - 42 = 0

That trades most of what we know and gets us:

-7 progress on Movement of Things.
-The Perception and Quick Wits runes we weren't able to get from Lorna last time around, as well as the Vitality and Lightning Strikes runes from the same.
-It drops the Waking Weapon version since that isn't that useful to us at the moment and with all the other waking stuff the Understand project on Master Rune of Waking would be small.
-In terms of the books it buys the Chamon book, and gives us a hook for future trades with Valma for the sake of eventually purchasing others. This also works well with the plan to give her a hint towards Mountainsouled, as it gives us a reason to check on her later.
-0 Hesitance.

Also worth mentioning that Wandering is related to Traversal in some way most likely, so that's another path for her to go down if she wants to get the Traversal rune.
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Shame about the other books though. No way to work those translations in?
 
UlseDovThur said:
@soulcake, I've had a thought, what is Snorri's Standing among the Dum survivors? It wouldn't happen to be... 11, would it?
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No, its high and probably higher now once news of your decision and its effects start occurring but not 11
kinglugia said:
@soulcake, regarding the Rune of Forged Limb, are we teaching our apprentices how to strike them before or after their Journeyman Trials?
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They learn it before their Journeyman Trial.
All the concerns are far less if its your apprentices who end up emulating you, at that point that's just how they were taught and the Runelords don't dare take anything beyond Grumbling with that relationship.
 
[X] Plan small but focused
-[X] Sell
--[X] Makerstrike
--[X] Waking non-dwarf
-[X] Buy
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery
--[X] Tome on Aqshy
--[X] Tome on Hysh
--[X] Understanding Elementales/Constructs
 
@BungieONI
I hope you don't mind if I coopt the plan you decided not to use, it's exactly what I'd go for.

[X] Plan Unga Bunga Full Throttle
-[X] Sell List:
-[X] Master Runes:
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[X] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Traversal, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[X] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[X] Sound, Worth: 1 point
-[X] Combo:**
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[X] Buy List:
-[X] Master Rune:
--[X] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points

-[X] Elgi Magical Textbooks:
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 2 points per book, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs) 8 points, all of them
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[X] Research:*
-[X] Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total. 6 points.
Total point cost= 1+47 - 48 = 0
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
@BungieONI
I hope you don't mind if I coopt the plan you decided not to use, it's exactly what I'd go for.

[X] Plan Unga Bunga Full Throttle
-[X] Sell List:
-[X] Master Runes:
--[X] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[X] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[X] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Traversal, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[X] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[X] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[X] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[X] Sound, Worth: 1 point
-[X] Combo:**
--[X] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[X] Buy List:
-[X] Master Rune:
--[X] Vitality [Talismanic]: The bearer gains Regeneration and improvement to toughness and endurance), Cost: 4 points
--[X] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[X] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[X] Regular Runes:
--[X] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[X] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Perception [Engineering]: Crew are more aware of their surroundings, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Quick wits [Engineering]: Crew have higher reaction speeds, Cost: 2 points
-[X] Elgi Magical Textbooks:
--[X] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[X] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[X] Research:*
-[X] Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total. 6 points.
Total point cost= 1+47 - 48 = 0
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No worries!
 
Keep in mind, Valma is likely to not be expecting such a huge trade. It's the sort of thing that would change how she sees Snorri, and probably not in a good way given Dwarf culture and how they tend to view runecraft. And even beyond her, we have to worry about perception of everyone else too, should they find out. This paints Snorri in a very particular way - namely with a sort of ooh shiney mentality - that might not be a good idea going forwards. Let's keep the trade smaller, as really, I doubt we'd end up using most of the stuff we get from a huge trade in any sort of reasonable time-frame, making it all rather redundant.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Keep in mind, Valma is likely to not be expecting such a huge trade. It's the sort of thing that would change how she sees Snorri, and probably not in a good way given Dwarf culture and how they tend to view runecraft. And even beyond her, we have to worry about perception of everyone else too, should they find out. This paints Snorri in a very particular way - namely with a sort of ooh shiney mentality - that might not be a good idea going forwards. Let's keep the trade smaller, as really, I doubt we'd end up using most of the stuff we get from a huge trade in any sort of reasonable time-frame, making it all rather redundant.
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Soulcake has outlined before that runelords and runesmiths don't really poke their noses into what happens with other people's trades. This came up when we traded with Lorna last time IIRC.

If Snorri isn't hesitant in any way, and the trade is private, then I trust his judgement and don't see an issue with going that hard in especially when a lot of it is about expanding on knowledge we already have and have plans to use/help reduce the time on Understand Master Rune actions.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Keep in mind, Valma is likely to not be expecting such a huge trade. It's the sort of thing that would change how she sees Snorri, and probably not in a good way given Dwarf culture and how they tend to view runecraft. And even beyond her, we have to worry about perception of everyone else too, should they find out. This paints Snorri in a very particular way - namely with a sort of ooh shiney mentality - that might not be a good idea going forwards. Let's keep the trade smaller, as really, I doubt we'd end up using most of the stuff we get from a huge trade in any sort of reasonable time-frame, making it all rather redundant.
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I agree with that acessment, although I could certainly live with the Almost Full Throttle Plan. Mainly because of the zero hesitance.
 
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