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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I don't see a reason to tell her exactly about Mountainsouled when she can figure out those last steps give or take a few decades.

Better to feel good about this trade (and thus be more inclined to trade with the youngsters) then it is to try and give her everything upfront.
 
Chief18753 said:
We're gonna turn Snorri into a freaking Loremaster, one way or another. Millennia from now, there's gonna be Imperial Wizards studying an insight into the Winds of Magic written by Snorri Gift Giver. A Dwarf Runelord scholar of the Winds of Magic.
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Its going to be one of those things that cause unprepared wizards to violently implode. And prepared wizards to wish they had.
 
Here is a medium spending plan. I wanted to mainly trade waking-related and Movement/mind of things research for thematic reasons (and because that is what I expect she would be able to do the most with), but threw in some extras to get all the book stuff. Total spent is 31 points


[] Plan wake up and read
-[] Selling
--[] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[] Forged Limb, Worth: 3 points
--[] Mind of Things, Worth: 6 pts (2+4 extra)
--[] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
--[] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[] Prosthesis, Worth: 3 points
-[] Buying
--[] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[] In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 8, delivered when complete(Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs)
--[] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
--[] Movement of things research, Cost: 5
 
Im not in favour of trading mountainsoul, she can figure that out or develop her own version. Maybe if she doesnt have anything in a century or two we revisit it.

Beyond that im on board for pretty much anything.
 
Going to recommend that we keep this research trade small, and not go for too much here. She's expecting a hint on the deep magic, so let's do our best to give her some small insight, without overwhelming her. Because let's face it, we don't actually know all that much about the deep magic - nowhere nearly as much as she likely thinks we have - so doing a massive trade feels deceptive. Even if we never actually say it, she'll be assuming that whatever we give her will be helpful - or at least somewhat related - to the deep magic. And if we give her a bunch of stuff that isn't relevent she'll waste a bunch of time trying to figure out a connection that isn't there. All while handing over stuff for something that isn't worth nearly as much as she thinks. So keep it small, keep it focused.
 
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Yeah I'm leaning towards what @Xantalos proposed. Put Unyielding down, and Makerstrike. Makerstrike, the way we did it at least *was* connected so I personally think its helpful and while I'd like to give her Mountainsouled straight out its a bit mmm.

And I kinda like the "hmmm lets see in a century or two" plot line. Might actually make more interesting things happen and have her come back with something entirely different! Which would be quite novel and interesting.
 
BungieONI said:
@soulcake, question. How much does the mind of things research we could give fall under the same sort of issues as Prosthesis and Forged Limb do? It's a different context from the Rune of Prosthesis and Forged Limb, so I was pondering if it has the same issues.
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Its a level removed, so less bad than if you gave her the Runes directly if she hypothetically does what I say could happen, but still bad.

CuriousRaptor said:
As another note the movement of things is a lesser concern given how many of her trades give us a boost there. in fact @soulcake wouldn't the trade be however many point minus the insights we get from her runes for the trade?
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I'm confused by the wording here. Getting the Runes inevitably gives you research for Movement of Things if you're talking about the Runes of Waking variants.
 
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I really really want to get Movement of Things research done as well as all the Elgi stuff. We can do it, and I think that would be a fantastic result from the Rune trade.
 
We can all agree we want to get as much of our own research done, right? That's entire decades of time which we currently have none to spare for a few centuries, so more or less invaluable.

Buy max progress and every Rune she has that gives more. If it overflows, oh well. If not, hey, headstart down the next chain.

Also the damn engineering lightning rune if we can.
 
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Chief18753 said:
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Pretty sure that is Gazul.

Caledor, Hashut and the King of the Skies, i think. Wonder why the latter two are connected.
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The later two are not connected. The part states:
A Bull of Iron, a Griffon of Ice and lightning, their threads ripped in half and tied to another respectively.
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The operative word is Respectively. The two are separate events.

Bull of Iron's (Hashut) threads of fate are ripped in half, symbolizing his destruction and being a shadow of what it was (though still with potential to reconnect, as in be reborn from its fragments, thus the thread isn't completely burned away), and the Griffon of Ice and lightning (King of the Skies) thread is tied to another, as in tied to the Dwarfs (King of the Skies' fate has changed from what has happened throughout this quest, he was likely fated to be merely yet another of the usual Griffons, but the Greedy trolls' existence changed that).
 
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so that fate rune was probably used in some way to make the throne of power since the fate of the dawi was bound with the throne
 
Here. 41 points, 0 Hesitance at the end, nothing on Mind of Things or it's results, and nothing but the Elgi stuff and Movement of Things. And gives her a step towards Mountainsouled.


- Master Runes:
-- Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
-- Currents, Worth: 4 points
-- Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
-- Infernos, Worth: 4 points
-- Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
-- Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
-- Wandering, Worth 4 points
-- Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
- Regular Runes:
-- Refraction, Worth: 1 point
-- Speech, Worth: 2 points

-- Sound, Worth: 1 point

- Combo:**
-- Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
41 points
Buy List:
- Master Rune:
-- Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-- Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
-- Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-- Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
- Regular Runes:

-- Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
- Elgi Magical Textbooks:
-- The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
-- In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 2 points per book, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs) 8 points
-- Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
- Research:*
-- Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total 6 points

41 points
 
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Hmm, currently leaning on a fairly limited trade, simply to make sure Valma knows that what we give her is related to Deep Magic, instead of dumping a huge number of Runes on her at once, many of which aren't related to the specific subject she's asking us about.
soulcake said:
-- In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 2 points per book, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs)
-- Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
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Say, does the Right to buy or trade for all future translations include the in-progress ones?
 
aceraptor said:
Bull of Iron's (Hashut) threads of fate are ripped in half, symbolizing his destruction and being a shadow of what it was (though still with potential to reconnect, as in be reborn from its fragments, thus the thread isn't completely burned away), and the Griffon of Ice and lightning (King of the Skies) thread is tied to another, as in tied to the Dwarfs (King of the Skies' fate has changed from what has happened throughout this quest, he was likely fated to be merely yet another of the usual Griffons, but the Greedy trolls' existence changed that).
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If it was the greedy troll than does that mean he is connected to Snorri?

Also the fate change could be Yorri saving him from Kohlek
 
Just Smednir to go now, right?

I figured he'd super dig how we revolutioned Adamant creation, even if it was using runes smelting is kind of his thing.

I suppose he might come by before he leaves?

@EVA-Saiyajin Could you fit the lightning siege rune? We are shamefully weak on engineering stuff.
 
She had more to sell then I would have expected considering her age. Also I thought that we were fairly advanced in Gronti research even if we haven't actually made many. This shows that not really to be the case.

I think that it would be worth trying to up our standing with her. I would love to get more bonuses to future Gronti research.
 
soulcake said:
Its a level removed, so less bad than if you gave her the Runes directly if she hypothetically does what I say could happen, but still bad.


I'm confused by the wording here. Getting the Runes inevitably gives you research for Movement of Things if you're talking about the Runes of Waking variants.
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That's unfortunate but understandable.

[] Plan Unga Bunga Full Throttle
-[] Sell List:
-[] Master Runes:
--[] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[] Currents, Worth: 4 points
--[] Blizzards, Worth: 4 points
--[] Infernos, Worth: 4 points
--[] Valaya [Armour], Worth: 4 points
--[] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[] Traversal, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[] Wandering, Worth 4 points
--[] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-[] Regular Runes:
--[] Refraction, Worth: 1 point
--[] Speech, Worth: 2 points
--[] Sound, Worth: 1 point
-[] Combo:**
--[] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[] Buy List:
-[] Master Rune:
--[] Vitality [Talismanic]: The bearer gains Regeneration and improvement to toughness and endurance), Cost: 4 points
--[] Lightning Strikes [Engineering]: The war machine bearing this Rune fires ammunition with thunderbolt level destructive power, Cost: 4 points
--[] Waking, Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance of Master Rune of Waking), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[] Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
--[] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
--[] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[] Regular Runes:
--[] Empowerment: Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, Gronti become sluggish for an equivalent amount of time afterwards, Cost: 3 points
--[] Waking Improved Variant [Engineering]: (Improved speed, strength and overall performance), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 2 points
--[] Perception [Engineering]: Crew are more aware of their surroundings, Cost: 2 points
--[] Quick wits [Engineering]: Crew have higher reaction speeds, Cost: 2 points
-[] Elgi Magical Textbooks:
--[] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[] Research:*
-[] Movement of Things, Cost: 1 point per progress, max 6 points total. 6 points.
Total point cost= 1+47 - 48 = 0

This does everything we have to give her that isn't Forged Limb/Arm Them related and Mountainsouled straight up, leaves us at 1/2 Hesitance, and means we get her entire buy list. I'm not that worried about overloading her causing her to try and find connections that don't exist since I expect Snorri to be clear on what's what.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Here. 41 points, 0 Hesitance at the end, nothing on Mind of Things or it's results, and nothing but the Elgi stuff and Movement of Things. And gives her a step towards Mountainsouled.
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Could also drop the other translations, as we're buying the rights to purchase all future translations regardless.

All in all, I really like your plan.
 
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[ ] The Rune trade minimal.
-[ ] Rune buy list.
-[ ] Waking [Weapon]: Allows the weapon to follow orders or act under its own power, but is still subject to the laws of physics( so a sword won't levitate and a crossbow can't reload without an existing mechanism though a bit of engineering mitigates such issues.), +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 3 points
-[ ] Waking [Armour]: Allows a suit of armour to follow orders or act under its own power, or aid the wearer, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[ ] Waking, Improved Variant [Talismanic]: Allows talismans to act under its own power, activating effects on their own and under pre-set conditions with perfect control and timing without input, +1 to Movement of Things, Cost: 4 points
-[ ] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
-[ ]The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
- Cost 21
-[ ] Rune Sell List
-[ ] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
-[ ] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
-[ ] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
-[ ] Wandering, Worth 4 points
-[ ] Grimnir [Weapon], Worth 3 points.
-Sell 21
 
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Alexander Sturnn said:
What exactly does that Vision mean?
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The original reason many of us, myself included, voted for Ties was because we believed that it was the concept of ties between people. possibly oaths, possibly connected to the Rune of Brotherhood in some way and that is synergized quite well with who Snorri is and the kind of stuff he pulls off.

Now, it might still be all of those things (no way of knowing until we start researching) but it's not just that anymore. It is a metaphorical glimpse at the common saying that all living things are just puppets dancing to the whims of fate. The strings of fate pulled and warred over by impossibly vast and infinite beings (perhaps the chaos gods or gods as a concept) who seek to chart a path into the future that benefits them. Something that the vision then rejects, that those strings of fate can be [Cut] and burned away with [Fire], that these [Ties] cannot bind if you don't want them to.
 
Alternatively, here is a much more conservative list, that focuses on trading Unyielding and Makerstrike for Elven books, plus a bit extra to get the right to buy future translations

[] Plan Mountainsouled Hint
-[] Selling
--[] Waking, Non-Dwarf Body Plan Variant, Worth: 4 points
--[] Unyielding, Worth: 6 points, +1 Hesitance
--[] Makerstrike, Worth: 4 points
--[] Forged Limb, Worth: 3 points
--[] Mind of Things, Worth: 3 pts (2+1)
-[] Buying
--[] The Readings and Insights of the Winde of Metal/Order/Chamon by Avalrith of the House of Serantor, most esteemed Maige of the Kingdom of Saphery, Cost: 2 points
--[] In Progress Book Translations, Cost: 8 pts, delivered when complete(Currently: Tomes on Azyr, Aqshy, Hysh, and Understanding Elementales/Constructs )
--[] Right to buy or trade for all future translations, Cost: 8 points, -1 Hesitance
--[] Movement of Things, Cost: 2 pts
 
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