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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Ragnar said:
The economic heart of the north maybe, but we are still practically paupers compared to most of the established holds.




Not evenly slightly.

First, most of the Elven colonies will be down south, outside of Norsca. The closer Dwarf holds that actually pose a threat will be the priority.

First will probably be any Dwarf power that can exert influence into the water- the ability to raid the supply lines between Ulthuan and their colonies is something that would need to be immediately suppressed as the first step of the war.

Second would be the the closest extant dwarf fortresses in close proximity to their established settlements, which would serve as rallying point for the Throngs.

And so on and so on.


Frankly as we are, we are an almost irrelevent factor regarding the opening moves of such a war.
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Except for the fact we have a Lord of storms who could easily contest their biggest baddest Dragons and quite possibly win. If the King of storms decides to fight against the Elves, their aerial superiority suddenly falls into a severe question. This gives us force projection and future sight to counter theirs in short order. Given the home of this threat is Kraka Drak, it's going to be a huge target. The Brana are already known to the elves after all if not the extent of thier true power and numbers.
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Except for the fact we have a Lord of storms who could easily contest their biggest baddest Dragons and quite possibly win. If the King of storms decides to fight against the Elves, their aerial superiority suddenly falls into a severe question. This gives us force projection and future sight to counter theirs in short order. Given the home of this threat is Kraka Drak, it's going to be a huge target. The Brana are already known to the elves after all if not the extent of thier true power and numbers.
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You are missing one major factor- scale. He's one, if mighty large, target. There would be hundreds, possibly thousands of Dragons invading the old world, leading armies of hundreds of thousands to millions of elves.

This is the golden age, where things arn't in decline. The scale is massive, and we are one young hold. We can contribute, yes, but we arn't the big dick.
 
Ragnar said:
You are missing one major factor- scale. He's one, if mighty large, target. There would be hundreds, possibly thousands of Dragons invading the old world, leading armies of hundreds of thousands to millions of elves.

This is the golden age, where things arn't in decline. The scale is massive, and we are one young hold. We can contribute, yes, but we arn't the big dick.
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In 2000 or so years i fully expect the Brana who are quite a bit more fecund than the Dawi, Elgi or Draks to be able to contest the Draks in the air due to them being innately tied to the air and storms. The King or even his successor, would have a much much much expanded court, and those who are merely formidable now will have had time to become truly dangerous, and that's not getting into the runic war gear amplifying what they can do. Dragons are great in air to ground fights, but Brana can and probably will cause them a great deal of headaches in the air due to speeds, weather debuffs, maneuverability being able to fly, in fact being empowered while flying in horrendous conditions for a dragon to try and fly in.
 
No matter how bad the Elgi are, theres little chance they'll send something on the level of Kholek Suneater out at Kraka Drakk in the early game, even if we're considered a priority target

Wealth aside, the number of Runic equipment present and its defenses are such that frankly a direct assault would be more trouble than its worth
 
Snorri already made a point of arming everyone he could with runic weapons to retake their holds with. If we go out of our way to arm any hold we help reconquer then we'll have influence by virtue of significantly increasing the quality of equipment for the northern throngs.

Almost any large scale effort we work on will be secondary to the effect that number of dwarves will have with better weapons.

BelligerentGnu said:
Everyone's talking about war with the elves, and I'm just sitting here hoping we befriend Malekith first.
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Wasn't he a huge asshole even before the chaos corruption? Even if we do somehow meet him I don't see any reason that Snorri would have any interest in spending time with him. Maybe something will come up, but contriving a situation where we can influence him feels a touch too close to meta gaming.
 
Malekith was an asshole, but not so much he wasn't amazing friends with a Dawi anyways. As you may remember him having a Dawi pal who he swore mutual oaths with that Elves and Dwarves would ever be pals. He's not just going to punt Beardlings or eat a baby goat for lunch.

...unless the Dawi have baby goat dishes, I suppose? Their food habits are a mystery beyond Troll Yum.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Snorri already made a point of arming everyone he could with runic weapons to retake their holds with. If we go out of our way to arm any hold we help reconquer then we'll have influence by virtue of significantly increasing the quality of equipment for the northern throngs.

Almost any large scale effort we work on will be secondary to the effect that number of dwarves will have with better weapons.
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If anything that's what would lead to an assault on Kraka Drakk.

Assassinating Snorri and the ability to nearly mass-produce Runic Equipment there. But itd take a while for that production and the relevance of the Brana being enough that the Phoenix King and his ilk would opt for more strategic considerations instead of choosing to go for the biggest flexes imaginable to the point of death

Theyd already have to not only be losing, But willing to admit as such to themselves

That's a lategame scenario at best, if it ever happens at all. Considering that the admission of needing to even the playing field would represent to the elves in question.
 
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Ragnar said:
I hope like fuck this isn't the case. When the war of Vengeance kicks off, this puts us as target No.1, due to the ability to deny their supply lines to the colonies and the ability to contest them along the coast.
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CuriousRaptor said:
Frankly Kraka Drakk is already going to be a high priority target as it connects the north to the main dwarven kingdoms entirely, we also are the home of a supremely powerful air threat who could actually severely nerf their dragons down due to "Lol storms" which would affect the dragons while empowering them. On top of us being the economic heart of roughly one third of the dwarven lands, and the second best military of the same. Then we get into this place being the equivalent of a magic college for the dwarves in the north as well and.... yeah.
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I feel that I should point out that not a single major dwarf mountain hold was ever taken by the elves during the war of vengeance as such was quality of the defences , but relatively new minor holds maybe a few of them fell and the dwarven none mountain settlements on the surface were straight up destroyed by the might of elven dragons
 
Death seems to be a mindset thing among the elder races - dwarfs die when they have a reason to, elves die when they have a reason not to live (similar but different motivations), and lizardmen don't die because they're not allowed to.
 
Ragnar said:
Now that the Northern reclaimation is complete, It's not impossible that exploration and expansion westwards will continue.
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Maybe, but probably not any time soon. Launching the reclamation of the North has tapped most of the available efforts - there's going to need to be a rest and reconsolidation period before the dawi can start expanding anew again.

After all, for all that all of the territory and strongholds have been reclaimed the population and economic activity can't be replaced by going out on campaign. Not every dwarf is as productive, should we say, as Dolgi is.
 
Honestly, at this point I would say that if the War of Vengence happens the dwarfs would come out on too far swifter and with much less devastation than canon.

Not only have the Norse Dwarfs survived and thrived but the Eastern Dwarfs are also alive and well. That alone massively boosts the forces the Dwarfs can bring to bear, never mind us having the Brana now as well to be our answer to the Elves Dragons.
 
Yeah, the dwarfs just straight up have more people this time. If they can concentrate their forces early on, the might be able to take all the colonies quick enough to entrench at the coasts and just boot them off the Old World entirely. Course at that point, they're gonna want to invade Ulthuan since I doubt the elves would surrender that quickly and that's grounds for losing a lot of dudes to naval warfare since dwarfs don't really do that yet. But hey, maybe we get ironclads much earlier than canon and this bunch gets to be runed ironclads as well.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Honestly, at this point I would say that if the War of Vengence happens the dwarfs would come out on too far swifter and with much less devastation than canon.
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To be honest, I don't think this matter much.

The war was never in question, at least not to me. The Elves had only colonies in the new world, and had to project force from across an ocean. This puts massive strain of what can be achieved, even with Magic. Meanwhile, the Dwarfs are both local, and Dug In Deep.

Dwarfs are best on the Defensive, where they bring their force multipliers and natural habits into play for the best result, but the problem is the Colonies on the mainland. They can't be destroyed by staying on the Defensive.

So the only option is to go on the attack, and lose most of their natural advantages. The war was never a question of if the Dwarfs would lose, but a question of how much blood they had to spend to win.

Even with another 1/4-1/5 an expanded area of control, I don't see their population booming that much, and even then, it might only bring the war to an end 100 years earlier.


The War will drain and reduce the population, but it wasn't what spelled the drain circling- it just primed them for the Time of Woes, because the Slaan are fucking assholes.

Speaking of, I've been thinking of a stage by stage plan to address that.
 
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Ragnar said:
The War will drain and reduce the population, what it wasn't what spelled the drain circling- it just primed them for the Time of Woes, because the Slaan are fucking assholes.
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You're ascribing a lot of malice where there is none. Not that it makes it any better
Ragnar said:
Speaking of, I've been thinking of a stage by stage plan to address that.
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...What IC reason could you possibly come up with for Snorri to find out about the Slann. I don't even think the quest extends that far
 
Godzillaslayer10 said:
...What IC reason could you possibly come up with for Snorri to find out about the Slann. I don't even think the quest extends that far
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While I can't speak for his plans I can say that, as far as I'm aware, the Slann use tectonic energy to cause the shitfest that is the Time of Woes, yeah?

Well Barak Azamar taps into that same source of energy and allows Snorri to do the same. I've had the thought for a while now that when the Time of Woes comes around Snorri might be able to use that connection and shield the Norse Dwarfs from destruction.
 
The correct route is to figure out a third combo to take advantage of the Geomantic Energies and finish out the set, and then engage in a silly research chain to figure out how to understand it better.

That, more than anything else, is the best way we can prep for the blowback from the Slann doing their fuckery.
 
Godzillaslayer10 said:
...What IC reason could you possibly come up with for Snorri to find out about the Slann. I don't even think the quest extends that far
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I meant in reaction to it, not to pre-empt it. And we may be able to induce 'timeskips' with the final form of Gromril, given that it takes hundreds upon hundreds of years to forge.

The Times of Woe have several main components that make them so damaging.

1) The population depletion from 500 years of war.
2) The destruction of their infrastructure and defences.
3) The migration Westwards from Greenskins, and northward from the Skaven.

If you look at the map, when shit goes down... we're in the clear.

Oh, we will no doubt suffer tremendous damage to all our structures and Karaks that will need to be rebuilt, and the Underways are going to collapse all over the place-

But the World Edge mountains and the fighting Dwarf holds will steem the Greenskins from reaching us, and the Skaven won't be that far North yet.


So that gives us immediate breathing room to reconstruct the local Underway network between the Norscan holds and rebuild our Infrastructure localy.

At that point, it's just a matter of reconnecting the Underway to a major hold, and funneling supplies and Throngs through to reinforce their defences.

If we can construct a proper defencive line from Vlag, we can pinch off Greenskins approaches to the North entirely and use them as a contained front.

The Key point being, that Georgraphy means we will be both hit less hard, and shielded from the immediate attacks. This gives us time to straighten our shit out, and start applying force to one flashpoint at a time, something nowhere else in the Karaz Ankor has.


So we funnel all the armies and supplies of the Norscan dwarfs into Vlag, and reinforce the defences on the High Pass, and along that section of the range. Once we have reinforced them, helped them gain their footing again, we can then leave them to handle their shit, and start going South.

If we don't overextend and try to help everyone, we should be able to effect lasting and stabilising change.
 
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