It also required a lot of trust.
Paths of Civilization
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It also required a lot of trust.
Nobody knows, because nobody can make that many crossbows. Or have that many cities for the matter.
Levy blocks aren't enough. They need leadership, because large masses of green troops without skilled direction are a horrific mess. Furthermore look at the scenarios:
-Nomads(Martial 5+, Cavalry 5+) - We already beat them on hard numbers. A levy block the size of a city is not effective without a cavalry unit to pin them in place for the levy to mow them down when the nomads have unlimited room to manevuer in the Stepes. As such, this does not change the situation for the Marches at all. They have enough dudes to hold. Adding more dudes is ineffective.
-Forhuch(Martial 10+, Cavalry 10+) - Meanwhile in Forhuch, we're looking at a number of cities, but a significant cavalry superiority. The levies here act as sheer weight of numbers in the hands of a good commander to hem in the Forhuch and then press into their heartlands where we can roll their cities. We can split off some forces here, but we'd need enough men under arms to simply overrun their cities via massed missile fire.
-Highlanders - And then in the Highlander side...unled Levies without any cavalry backing would be...not very effective?
Here's the thing:
80 Martial hitting Forhuch can't be defeated. We can simply march up and roll over settlement after settlement provided we have the horsepower and manpower concentration to protect our supply lines the whole way.
40 Martial hitting Forhuch is not a decisive victory anymore, because even if we have 4 times their Martial they have twice our Cavalry. We don't have the manpower saturation to negate cavalry entirely.
Meanwhile the other 40 Martial is trying to chase cavalry on the steppes with only infantry. If they are lucky, nothing gets done.
25 Martial hitting Forhuch...this is hubris. We hit them with 24 Martial worth of mercenaries and were lucky to come out even. Split our forces three ways and we lose all three fights.
We're not ignoring the Harmurri. But destroying the Forhuch's 10 Cavalry is crucial to being able to fight at all. Break the Forhuch, then we and turn around and ram 80 martial up Highlander ass.
Completed action history of the Thunder Horse.
Can we say....
The Dragon Reborn?
The 2nd coming of Yenya.
[X] [Hero] The War Chief is an Avatar of War (Genius Martial, at least semi-stable Diplo and Admin)
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for an extra turn (Patricians will switch support to Yeomen immediately
[X] [Kick] No further kick
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BungieONI
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Exceptional Martial, explicitly by WoAN.
And exceptional is one level below Heroic.
Ok thanks. Didn't read up till there yet/
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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Though the qualitative difference is greater than most stat steps (the exception being hero -> genius).
First crush the Forhuch, then deal with the HK, we already have to deal with the nomads, we can't afford a 3 front war, because our army lacks articulation. Our doctrine is at best simple, at worst primitive. And because the Forhuch have settlements, we should be able to send in Blackbirds to sabotage, take out leaders and be all out giant pests.
BungieONI
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Yeah. Probably the biggest qualitative mechanical difference is that Heroes can't crit fail(crit fails get downgraded to a severe fail), Exceptional's still can.
The gap between Hero and Genius honestly seems like the difference between a normal person and a wizard. Its not... completely fair to make comparisons considering the sheer eyebrow raising strangeness that Geniuses cause, in my opinion.
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YYyeah. I mean, with Meteor thing, it's, uh.
I wonder how is Yethyn or whatever and TOhdreghegh or whatever was her name are remembered by Ymaryn.
Oirbse
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[X] [Hero] The War Chief is an Avatar of War (Genius Martial, at least semi-stable Diplo and Admin)
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for an extra turn (Patricians will switch support to Yeomen immediately
[X] [Kick] No further kick
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for an extra turn (Patricians will switch support to Yeomen immediately
[X] [Kick] No further kick
Alright, the [Traders] vote is currently a few votes from flipping, so I'll try to give it one last push for when people wake up. As a reminder, here are the votes in the running.
[] [Traders] Support Faction for an extra turn (Patricians will switch support to Yeomen immediately)
[] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
Here's our current martial:
Martial 9/37 {85/39} Levy Overmax: Pay for it later
We are currently hilariously, massively over max martial. We literally can't even send enough war missions for all of it, even with a full set of province actions dedicated to war missions with a Kick. Furthermore, not only will the temp martial gained from Yeomen not help us, it will actually add to the amount of fallout we have to deal with from overmartial after the war.
If you're voting for the extra turn for extra martial, please reconsider. We're beyond good on martial already.
So, the extra turn vote sucks for the war. Why is a new faction quest any better?
As of the latest update, the traders are no longer pissed. This means that, when combined with Patricians continuing to support Traders, we'll have a power 9 faction bonus to all of our innovation rolls. Assuming the leading Hero vote wins and we receive a Genius Martial, this will greatly increase our chances of innovating tactics and technology to bring the war to a swift conclusion. Who knows, maybe our General could innovate a way for the Blood Rain Company to not get stomped every single time we deploy them!
Some people want the long term benefit of completing the current Trader quest for a free +1 Navy. This is a pretty nice reward... if we have time for it. We certainly don't have time for it during the coming main turn, since we'll pop all of our non Free Cities if we don't overflow into econ. The turn after that doesn't look much better, since we're currently in the middle of Epic Age 2.0, need to deal with the fallout of overmartial, need to deal with the fallout of government reform, need to fix our stability situation, need to fix our econ after leaving Mass Levy, all while finishing the Damn Dam.
If the reward was better, or we needed Navy for the war, or we weren't in a 3 front land locked war, or the New Quest vote had no potential long term benefits, then this would be a great quest to complete. But that's not the case. Generating a new quest means we no longer have to worry about failing the current one and still lets us fail the next one for free if we need to. It's one thing off our plate for a little bit and gives us some breathing room.
As an added bonus, generating a quest from a Strength 9 happy Trader faction has the potential for a great reward, with a quest more aligned with our current needs or wants. If your goal is just wanting the bonus from completing quests and mollifying the Traders, then a new quest suits your purposes fine without putting us in crunch mode.
For once, lets not be overconfident and assume we'll roll over our enemies. This has ended with egg on our face a couple of times now, and I'm not looking to piss off the Traders again due to it. Vote for prudence. Vote for a new quest.
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
[] [Traders] Support Faction for an extra turn (Patricians will switch support to Yeomen immediately)
[] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
Here's our current martial:
Martial 9/37 {85/39} Levy Overmax: Pay for it later
We are currently hilariously, massively over max martial. We literally can't even send enough war missions for all of it, even with a full set of province actions dedicated to war missions with a Kick. Furthermore, not only will the temp martial gained from Yeomen not help us, it will actually add to the amount of fallout we have to deal with from overmartial after the war.
If you're voting for the extra turn for extra martial, please reconsider. We're beyond good on martial already.
So, the extra turn vote sucks for the war. Why is a new faction quest any better?
As of the latest update, the traders are no longer pissed. This means that, when combined with Patricians continuing to support Traders, we'll have a power 9 faction bonus to all of our innovation rolls. Assuming the leading Hero vote wins and we receive a Genius Martial, this will greatly increase our chances of innovating tactics and technology to bring the war to a swift conclusion. Who knows, maybe our General could innovate a way for the Blood Rain Company to not get stomped every single time we deploy them!
Some people want the long term benefit of completing the current Trader quest for a free +1 Navy. This is a pretty nice reward... if we have time for it. We certainly don't have time for it during the coming main turn, since we'll pop all of our non Free Cities if we don't overflow into econ. The turn after that doesn't look much better, since we're currently in the middle of Epic Age 2.0, need to deal with the fallout of overmartial, need to deal with the fallout of government reform, need to fix our stability situation, need to fix our econ after leaving Mass Levy, all while finishing the Damn Dam.
If the reward was better, or we needed Navy for the war, or we weren't in a 3 front land locked war, or the New Quest vote had no potential long term benefits, then this would be a great quest to complete. But that's not the case. Generating a new quest means we no longer have to worry about failing the current one and still lets us fail the next one for free if we need to. It's one thing off our plate for a little bit and gives us some breathing room.
As an added bonus, generating a quest from a Strength 9 happy Trader faction has the potential for a great reward, with a quest more aligned with our current needs or wants. If your goal is just wanting the bonus from completing quests and mollifying the Traders, then a new quest suits your purposes fine without putting us in crunch mode.
For once, lets not be overconfident and assume we'll roll over our enemies. This has ended with egg on our face a couple of times now, and I'm not looking to piss off the Traders again due to it. Vote for prudence. Vote for a new quest.
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
BungieONI
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Yshuyn and Tormulyna.
E: I assume Yenyna the Dragon General is remembered rather positively.
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Ah, no, I meant Herthyn, the king at Meteor Time.
Yshuyn is probably an interesting figure: broken by pointless war, but genius in his own right. Wonder what kind of legends are about him.
Yenyna is probably a heroic figure on par with Heracles at this point.
[X] [Hero] The War Chief is an Avatar of War (Genius Martial, at least semi-stable Diplo and Admin)
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
[X] [Kick] No further kick
Switching to splinting the focus. The genius can't really use all the troops he has, might as well send some of them to slow down the highlanders.
[X] [Target] Split focus between the Forhuch and Highlanders, hold against the nomads
[X] [Traders] Support Faction for a new faction quest (Patricians will not switch support immediately)
[X] [Kick] No further kick
Switching to splinting the focus. The genius can't really use all the troops he has, might as well send some of them to slow down the highlanders.
Dude, we can only send the same number of troops total, the troops sent are coming out of the Forhuch force.
We don't HAVE enough dudes to win if we go mad and split along three fronts. Thats defeat in detail. 80/3 is only 26.
26 Martial won't even beat the HK, much less the Forhuch. We sent 24 Martial in our mercenaries and they barely managed a draw despite crazy good rolls.
That vote is splitting two ways though, with nomads held by marches. I still think it's wrong one, but it's not complete madness.
Random Member
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[X] [Hero] Both the War Chief and the Governor of MoS are Heroic Martial
I strongly disagree. Next turn we might still be at war, but the original Epic Age didn't even last a full turn. Similarly, I suspected the war will either be mostly or completely over within a turn and a half. Even though the Forhuch are more mobile, we can siege their villages and cities until they capitulate or die. Xohyr fell in a turn, having 2 turns is plenty.
(On a side note, we have reason to believe that having a high martial score is useful even without all the war missions to deploy it fully, especially in regards to secondary martial which might not even need to be deployed. You can't use a mechanical argument when we don't have much information on the mechanics)
Stronger quests have stronger demands. We don't need to worry about failing the current quest because it has no failure penalty. A new quest might have one- heck it might not even have a success bonus. Being happy doesn't prevent the faction from throwing bad quests at us: see the Guild current quest, we got that when they were happy with us. About the only thing we can say about stronger quests is that they're harder- the patricians wanted 4 actions and 16 stats, the guilds want 5 actions and 30 stats, the ponies the patricians wanted weren't exactly cheap either. Stronger factions usually demand more, and the benefit is sometimes worth it.
How do you know we had "crazy good rolls" better rolls then the enemy sure, but crazy good?
If we were more warlike, sure, we could probably manage that. We're drawing up ao many dudes that theres a very real risk of sending people the wrong way though. At least, it happened historically often enough that two front wars were for madmen, fools or geniuses.
Feudal structures largely made it work only by having each feudal leader command their own group to act independently. But we lack that
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Wors of AN, we were expected to be fucked 8-11 on a scale of 10 for the vanguard. But we came out with two crits and one hit