Basically the guilds panic only if they think they might actually run out of money for reals(i.e. Wealth <5 can be driven to 0 on a bad combo), after which you need extra wealth to reassure them that no, everything is fine.

Hah. It's like children or dogs. Silly guilds.

What about the idea of a plan - that is, Megaproject support ( @Kiba 's idea) and letting it do Dam and then Canal since we need both anyway?

Oh, we can also do Great Library while we are at it. :V
 
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Hah. It's like children or dogs. Silly guilds.

What about the idea of a plan - that is, Megaproject support ( @Kiba 's idea) and letting it do Dam and then Canal since we need both anyway?

Oh, we can also do Great Library while we are at it. :V

I don't know. Boundary Hills seemed pretty cheap and more important at the moment. 5-8 actions for 2 econ each, 10-16 econ in total. Megaproject Support can do 3 actions each turn and defray the entire cost with a secondary expand econ.

Similarly, a main Expand Economy can support four actions for building the Triangle Canal and increases the difficulty of attacking northern provinces.
 
Hah. It's like children or dogs. Silly guilds.

What about the idea of a plan - that is, Megaproject support ( @Kiba 's idea) and letting it do Dam and then Canal since we need both anyway?

Oh, we can also do Great Library while we are at it. :V
The mob is rarely very logical, though they ARE justified in being alarmed when our Wealth dips that low, even if they really should be far more worried about Econ.

Look at the bright side, this is far LESS panicky than what medieval mercantalism could get up to, and that in turn looks positively stable compared to a modern stock market panic.

As for megaproject rush...wait and see, but we still need Balanced more for now
 
The mob is rarely very logical, though they ARE justified in being alarmed when our Wealth dips that low, even if they really should be far more worried about Econ.

Look at the bright side, this is far LESS panicky than what medieval mercantalism could get up to, and that in turn looks positively stable compared to a modern stock market panic.

As for megaproject rush...wait and see, but we still need Balanced more for now

Ehh. Megaprojects we are likely to do are very much all about provinces (Dam, Canal, Boundary Pass, another Canal) and thus are not a subject to a "greedy core takes everything and gives nothing" complaints. I am not entirely sure what Balanced has to offer to compete with this, aside from Main Expand Econ.

Plus it's not like megaprojects are "shinies" - they offer great benefits, so MP support is pretty useful.
Granted, that'd mean us having to take manual expand econs, but provinces can Triple Main Megaproject per turn, so it's more efficient on balance, if we intend to do more than one megaproject in a row - and we totally do, we have Dam+Canal at least.

What, in your opinion, are the benefits of Balanced compared to MP support in a case of us definitely needing multiple (at least two) megaprojects in a row?
 
What do you guys think of getting a giant stone and writing the rules on farming for all the world to generations to come? The knowledge must be preserved at any costs.

Also all the mistakes the enclaves did don't seem to be minor to be put something that would happen to someone who didn't know what there doing. Bunch of idiots they were.
 
Main Great Hall Annex -4 Econ -4 Culture (who cares about culture cost tho)
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Change Policy MP Support
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial
Secondary Expand Econ +6 Econ

Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Porcelain Works -2 Econ +2 Wealth
Guild Secondary Docks -1 Econ
This is too ambitious, and falls short in a number of places as a result.

The whole megaproject support thing is for when we can really afford to focus on megaprojects, and we're likely going to have to take actions ourselves to make up for a lack of other, boring actions. If we want to spam 2-3 of them back to back it's an idea, and if we get a good enough mid turn it's an idea too, but I am distinctly not in favor of trying to squeeze it in with both raise army and influence subordinate.

Also, secondary docks is no where near as good for us as a main docks.

So if we get something like a react action that is is secondary raise army and new march in the spirit channel, and we get some loyalty from greenshore from our passive policy of vassal support, I'd be okay with the spirit of this update. Assuming we plan to basically build The Great Library and then another megaproject immediately afterwards. Otherwise I'd just as soon wait for the government reform so we don't devote all of our actions to megaproject actions.
What do you guys think of getting a giant stone and writing the rules on farming for all the world to generations to come? The knowledge must be preserved at any costs.

Also all the mistakes the enclaves did don't seem to be minor to be put something that would happen to someone who didn't know what there doing. Bunch of idiots they were.
We did that, it was our greater sacred forest megaproject. We continuously update it because we don't believe in 'good enough' farming practices. :V
 
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This is too ambitious, and falls short in a number of places as a result.

The whole megaproject support thing is for when we can really afford to focus on megaprojects, and we're likely going to have to take actions ourselves to make up for a lack of megaprojects. If we want to spam 2-3 of them back to back it's an idea, and if we get a good enough mid turn it's an idea too, but I am distinctly not in favor of trying to squeeze it in with both raise army and influence subordinate.

Also, secondary docks is no where near as good for us as a main docks.

So if we get something like a react action that is is secondary raise army and new march in the spirit channel, and we get some loyalty from greenshore from our passive policy of vassal support, I'd be okay with the spirit of this update. Assuming we plan to basically build The Great Library and then another megaproject immediately afterwards. Otherwise I'd just as soon wait for the government reform so we don't devote all of our actions to megaproject actions.

1. What do you mean by "too ambitious"? We have several ongoing projects: annexes, dam, influencing vassals. We also have a need for army and navy due to fuckery all around. I am just keeping up with all these things. What exactly is "too ambitious"?
Yes, I could finagle things around to finish, say, Annexes right this turn (via Annex instead of Expand Econ) but that would result in too low Economy turn-after-next and in an inability to maintain 10+ Wealth. Granted, if we do not have to keep 10+ Wealth, it is an option - but we are going to be nigh-paralyzed turn-after-next then, unless PSN triggers.

2. Secondary Docks are worse, but Main Docks cost wealth and I was planning with the assumption we need 10+ wealth at midturn. Although Main Docks+More Warships would be a nice little combination. If veekie and Oni are right about 10+ wealth being only a thing now due to Guild Panic, it's a good option indeed.

3. We have to spam at least two megaprojects back-to-back here: Dam and Canal right after that. We don't really have a choice: half the reason for said Dam is Canal to Lowlands which it allows building. So a plan is Dam->Canal-> GL or Boundary Pass or Triangle Canal, depending on what's needed more.
 
So if we get something like a react action that is is secondary raise army and new march in the spirit channel, and we get some loyalty from greenshore from our passive policy of vassal support, I'd be okay with the spirit of this update. Assuming we plan to basically build The Great Library and then another megaproject immediately afterwards. Otherwise I'd just as soon wait for the government reform so we don't devote all of our actions to megaproject actions.

It's the provinces doing the megaproject actions, not us. Boundary Hill and the Dam are essentially self-funding. We can get three progress every turn and a secondary expand economy to fill it right back up. If we're lucky, the lowland canal will essentially be self-funding too.

We will have five secondaries, two main guild, and a secondary guild actions free, excluding the use of main action expand economy to provide econ for King's actions. That mean we have 12 econ to play with every turn. It will be a challenge to balance it out, but we can accomplish our other goals within that framework.

Also, on the March option:

Raise Army sec: -2 Econ, -3 Wealth, +5 Martial, +1 Culture, potential additional effects
Found March: -5 Martial, 2 Econ transfer, founds march to take independent martial actions

This gives us a net -4 econ, -3 wealth, +1 culture, 0 martial.

If I remember right, our econ are: 24 econ, 14 wealth.

We will be at 20 econ, 11 wealth. Not absolutely terrible to work with, but mediocre.
 
1. What do you mean by "too ambitious"? We have several ongoing projects: annexes, dam, influencing vassals. We also have a need for army and navy due to fuckery all around. I am just keeping up with all these things. What exactly is "too ambitious"?
Yes, I could finagle things around to finish, say, Annexes right this turn (via Annex instead of Expand Econ) but that would result in too low Economy turn-after-next and in an inability to maintain 10+ Wealth. Granted, if we do not have to keep 10+ Wealth, it is an option - but we are going to be nigh-paralyzed turn-after-next then, unless PSN triggers.
You're getting halfway to a lot of projects without actually leaving room for flexibility. Like docks.

For example, getting more light cavalry is distinctly a sooner, rather than later problem and, despite how it would be smart of our provinces to use their actions in a megaproject support policy by doubling a main to get three mains and one secondary, thus leaving them with room to do an expand econ, I have no particularly large faith that they will. Maybe AN has changed his approach to this, but once burned twice shy. AKA, I still remember them being complete morons about this.

I think you also need to just, in general, save some actions for dealing with mid turn problems.

2. Secondary Docks are worse, but Main Docks cost wealth and I was planning with the assumption we need 10+ wealth at midturn. Although Main Docks+More Warships would be a nice little combination. If veekie and Oni are right about 10+ wealth being only a thing now due to Guild Panic, it's a good option indeed.
I'm pretty sure they are right about that. I was certainly never of the opinion it was something different, and we should get a warning if it is.

3. We have to spam at least two megaprojects back-to-back here: Dam and Canal right after that. We don't really have a choice: half the reason for said Dam is Canal to Lowlands which it allows building. So a plan is Dam->Canal-> GL or Boundary Pass or Triangle Canal, depending on what's needed more.
Canals were originally supposed to be extended projects, with the exception of insanely larger scale canals like the Triangle or bypass canal. Maybe AN has changed that, but it was not originally supposed to be another megaproject. So...

Also, on the March option:

Raise Army sec: -2 Econ, -3 Wealth, +5 Martial, +1 Culture, potential additional effects
Found March: -5 Martial, 2 Econ transfer, founds march to take independent martial actions

This gives us a net -4 econ, -3 wealth, +1 culture, 0 martial.

If I remember right, our econ are: 24 econ, 14 wealth.

We will be at 20 econ, 11 wealth. Not terrible to work with.
If we get those actions in the mid turn I will be much more on board with a megaproject support policy. Of course if we do, then that plan is obsolete because it has a secondary raise army, which will no longer serve the same necessary purpose and can be replaced with, say, finishing the annexes or even starting up a free city.
 
You're getting halfway to a lot of projects without actually leaving room for flexibility. Like docks.

For example, getting more light cavalry is distinctly a sooner, rather than later problem and, despite how it would be smart of our provinces to use their actions in a megaproject support policy by doubling a main to get three mains and one secondary, thus leaving them with room to do an expand econ, I have no particularly large faith that they will. Maybe AN has changed his approach to this, but once burned twice shy. AKA, I still remember them being complete morons about this.

I think you also need to just, in general, save some actions for dealing with mid turn problems.

1. Halfway done?
I am finishing trader quest, and other stuff, like keeping colonies happy and Forchuh happy, is a matter of upkeep with no end in sight.
The other stuff it addresses - annex and dam - is something of a slog anyway. It's not like we can finish either of those this turn without sacrificing other one.

So, like...it finishes one project (fleet), keeps up with neverending projects (subordinates and diplomacy) and slowly works through longer projects of Great Hall x6 and Dam. I am not seeing much room for improvement here without dropping some things we really should not drop. If you can point what exactly of
  • keep trading with Forchuh until Canal to Lowlands makes it easy enough to be "automated"
  • keep influencing subordinates until updates stop dropping "they are only sticking with us because other dudes might be aggressive" phrases
  • finish Navy (Naval 4)
  • Dam
  • Great Hall x6
we can either drop or finish faster, feel free to. I don't see much room to, although dropping "Wealth 10+ at midturn" opens up some options.

2. Wait, what do you mean about our provinces? I don't recall that incident you speak about.

I'm pretty sure they are right about that. I was certainly never of the opinion it was something different, and we should get a warning if it is.

That's good news.

Okay, let me try remake of plan without this constraint.

Main Great Hall Annex -4 Econ -4 Culture (who cares about culture cost tho)
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Change Policy MP Support
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial
Secondary Expand Econ +6 Econ

Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Docks -2 Econ -1 Wealth
Guild Secondary Kilns -1 Econ, -1 Wealth


Expenses:
Econ: -4 (Annex x2))-2 (Inf)-2 (army)-3 (Warships) -2 Econ - 1 Kiln= -14; 6 more free to spend - enough for provinces to take their 3 Dam actions
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-3(RA)-5(Warships) -1 Docks -1 Kilns = -14; left at 6, whatever

Income:
Econ: +6 (Expand) + 6 ( provincial secondary Expand) = 12 come midturn
Wealth: lol, left at 6 wealth, which is above 5, so no panic.
Martial: total +2 without touching 0.

This gives some more Docks and does not burn through forest slots. Better?

Canals were originally supposed to be extended projects, with the exception of insanely larger scale canals like the Triangle or bypass canal. Maybe AN has changed that, but it was not originally supposed to be another megaproject. So...

This is the first time I hear this. Would mean starting it to let passive policies finish it for us might be the best approach then.


If we get those actions in the mid turn I will be much more on board with a megaproject support policy. Of course if we do, then that plan is obsolete because it has a secondary raise army, which will no longer serve the same necessary purpose and can be replaced with, say, finishing the annexes or even starting up a free city.

Yeah, I am explicitly assuming we cannot progress towards any of our goals with the midturn reaction. This is sorta bad-case-but-no-crisis plan, so redundant things can be thrown away when possible,
 
You're getting halfway to a lot of projects without actually leaving room for flexibility. Like docks.

For example, getting more light cavalry is distinctly a sooner, rather than later problem and, despite how it would be smart of our provinces to use their actions in a megaproject support policy by doubling a main to get three mains and one secondary, thus leaving them with room to do an expand econ, I have no particularly large faith that they will. Maybe AN has changed his approach to this, but once burned twice shy. AKA, I still remember them being complete morons about this.

I doubt AN will screw us over.

Let say MP takes Expand Economy sec for whatever reason.

1 sec is doubled. So we get 12 econ. Then we have five sec to work with. That gives us 2 progress and a leftover, which will be used to do another expand economy, because it can't take anything else.

So we get 12 + 6 = 18 - 4 = 14 econ.

It's blatantly stupid, but maxing out our econ, overflowing into our wealth and eating into our LTE isn't the worst thing that can happen to us.

The Dam+Canal helps us militarily and economically, by giving us access to Txolla's food supply and their large manpower reserve as well reinforce them in time of war. This gives us the mean to get swole and breed more horses.

Ditto for Boundary Hill, which will allow us to better match the nomad's strategic mobility and give them a nasty surprise, and give our Marches the ability to reinforce the lowland in time of crisis.

Canals were originally supposed to be extended projects, with the exception of insanely larger scale canals like the Triangle or bypass canal. Maybe AN has changed that, but it was not originally supposed to be another megaproject. So...

Citation needed.
 
Ehh. Megaprojects we are likely to do are very much all about provinces (Dam, Canal, Boundary Pass, another Canal) and thus are not a subject to a "greedy core takes everything and gives nothing" complaints. I am not entirely sure what Balanced has to offer to compete with this, aside from Main Expand Econ.

Plus it's not like megaprojects are "shinies" - they offer great benefits, so MP support is pretty useful.
Granted, that'd mean us having to take manual expand econs, but provinces can Triple Main Megaproject per turn, so it's more efficient on balance, if we intend to do more than one megaproject in a row - and we totally do, we have Dam+Canal at least.

What, in your opinion, are the benefits of Balanced compared to MP support in a case of us definitely needing multiple (at least two) megaprojects in a row?
The bit where we are STILL in crisis mode and need the flexibility of Balanced to keep ticking from turn to turn.

Hopefully Bazaar and Reform drags us to merely sizzling, but we've been very close to bankruptcy/starvation and still are close while the expensive warships and cavalry need raising.

And probably a couple more influences.
That says to me we want flexibility to put out fires over action efficiency
What do you guys think of getting a giant stone and writing the rules on farming for all the world to generations to come? The knowledge must be preserved at any costs.

Also all the mistakes the enclaves did don't seem to be minor to be put something that would happen to someone who didn't know what there doing. Bunch of idiots they were.
Nothing they did would have had visible effect until several years in. They probably just assumed we gave them shitty land.
Canals were originally supposed to be extended projects, with the exception of insanely larger scale canals like the Triangle or bypass canal. Maybe AN has changed that, but it was not originally supposed to be another megaproject. So...

Word of AN was that canals would have become Extended after we built a few. IIRC. Need more practice than the stone age canal.
 
The bit where we are STILL in crisis mode and need the flexibility of Balanced to keep ticking from turn to turn.

Hopefully Bazaar and Reform drags us to merely sizzling, but we've been very close to bankruptcy/starvation and still are close while the expensive warships and cavalry need raising.

And probably a couple more influences.
That says to me we want flexibility to put out fires over action efficiency

This has more to do with the amount of actions we are given and how careless we are spending it. We have to do two guild actions and a secondary, plus a main and five secondaries.

@ctulhuslp like to spend econ like no tomorrow.

I have action plans that sacrifice some priorities but keep us topped up for econ, and keep us treading wealth-wise. It also put us a in good position to go Full Myranyn mode should someone decides to be stupid and attack us.
 
1. Halfway done?
I am finishing trader quest, and other stuff, like keeping colonies happy and Forchuh happy, is a matter of upkeep with no end in sight.
The other stuff it addresses - annex and dam - is something of a slog anyway. It's not like we can finish either of those this turn without sacrificing other one.

So, like...it finishes one project (fleet), keeps up with neverending projects (subordinates and diplomacy) and slowly works through longer projects of Great Hall x6 and Dam. I am not seeing much room for improvement here without dropping some things we really should not drop. If you can point what exactly of
  • keep trading with Forchuh until Canal to Lowlands makes it easy enough to be "automated"
  • keep influencing subordinates until updates stop dropping "they are only sticking with us because other dudes might be aggressive" phrases
  • finish Navy (Naval 4)
  • Dam
  • Great Hall x6
we can either drop or finish faster, feel free to. I don't see much room to, although dropping "Wealth 10+ at midturn" opens up some options.
My bigger problem is, you aren't solving enough things to convince me things will not be on fire while pursuing a megaproject support policy. You'd have to complete more things than we are physically capable of completing based on what you are assuming is going wrong for me to be okay with it.

2. Wait, what do you mean about our provinces? I don't recall that incident you speak about.
Dam, it was one of the first few megaprojects after we got the policy, let me see...
Provinces - Megaproject x2
Ah, the first one. The turn before this we had three secondaries shown. Instead of doubling a preformed main and getting us a secondary, as would have been the sane thing to do, our provinces doubled a secondary and combined two secondaries into a main.

Like, I don't think they do that anymore, but I have always worked under the assumption our provinces can find a way to be stupid since.
This gives some more Docks and does not burn through forest slots. Better?
Better, but I still have my 'too many fires' problem.
This is the first time I hear this. Would mean starting it to let passive policies finish it for us might be the best approach then.
Word of AN was that canals would have become Extended after we built a few. IIRC. Need more practice than the stone age canal.
Ah, is that what it was? Either way, we'll see when we finish the dam. Even if it is another megaproject, it wouldn't encourage me to go on the policy more. Especially since the policy can only create 3 mains at most, meaning it would take an extra turn on average anyways. Maybe not with Symphony, hard to say when that triggers on stuff like environment and how.
 
The bit where we are STILL in crisis mode and need the flexibility of Balanced to keep ticking from turn to turn.

Hopefully Bazaar and Reform drags us to merely sizzling, but we've been very close to bankruptcy/starvation and still are close while the expensive warships and cavalry need raising.

And probably a couple more influences.

We are in crisis mode? Rural Plague is dying down. Disrupted Trade needs more reestablished contacts with people. That's not a crisis per se.

You say "Balanced keeps us ticking", but what exactly does it do which makes it more worthwhile than, say, not accomplishing Dam two turns sooner?

This has more to do with the amount of actions we are given and how careless we are spending it. We have to do two guild actions and a secondary, plus a main and five secondaries.

@ctulhuslp like to spend econ like no tomorrow.

I have action plans that sacrifice some priorities but keep us topped up for econ, and keep us treading wealth-wise. It also put us a in good position to go Full Myranyn mode should someone decides to be stupid and attack us.

Yeah, but it indeed does not progress all that much towards some of the priorities.


My bigger problem is, you aren't solving enough things to convince me things will not be on fire while pursuing a megaproject support policy. You'd have to complete more things than we are physically capable of completing based on what you are assuming is going wrong for me to be okay with it.

List of "things to solve" is ~30 items long.
List of "urgent things to solve" is 6-10 items long; some of them, like NOMADS and disloyal subordinates, do not have a final solution, just actions to keep up with demands.
I just...do not see what can I complete faster, to be honest. I can forget about annex and start Temple level 2, for example - it does sorta address the disloyalty issues (cultural glue) and it's a quest. But government upgrade is honestly pretty urgent...

Dam, it was one of the first few megaprojects after we got the policy, let me see...
Ah, the first one. The turn before this we had three secondaries shown. Instead of doubling a preformed main and getting us a secondary, as would have been the sane thing to do, our provinces doubled a secondary and combined two secondaries into a main.

Like, I don't think they do that anymore, but I have always worked under the assumption our provinces can find a way to be stupid since.

Ah. Thanks.
Ah, is that what it was? Either way, we'll see when we finish the dam. Even if it is another megaproject, it wouldn't encourage me to go on the policy more. Especially since the policy can only create 3 mains at most, meaning it would take an extra turn on average anyways. Maybe not with Symphony, hard to say when that triggers on stuff like environment and how.

So it's either two or three mains? It's better than if we were doing it - we can do one, maybe two.
Alternatively, there is Kiba's plan which goes full tilt on Dam...via MP support. Because you don't get to fasttrack Dam without MP Support.

Or you can fasttrack government upgrade...I don't think we have actions for it, actually.
Plan No Switch:
Main Great Dam -2 Econ
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Great Hall Annex -2 Econ/Cult
Secondary Great Hall Annex x2 -2 Econ/Cult
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial

Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Docks -2 Econ -1 Wealth
Guild Secondary Kilns -1 Econ, -1 Wealth

Expenses:
Econ: -2 (Dam) -4 (Annex x2))-2 (Inf)-2 (army)-3 (Warships) -2 Econ - 1 Kiln= -16; 20->4
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-3(RA)-5(Warships) -1 Docks -1 Kilns = -14; left at 6, whatever

Income:
Econ: 12 ( provincial secondary Expand) = 16 come midturn
Wealth: lol, left at 6 wealth, which is above 5, so no panic.
Martial: total +2 without touching 0.


This makes even less progress towards anything we want to do while not winning us too much stats out of it. Like, switch to MP Support can outright finish the Dam on its own.
Alternatively, you can go full tilt on the Dam:

Plan Full Dam:
Main Great Dam -2 Econ
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Great Hall Annex -2 Econ/Cult
Secondary Change Polcy MP Support
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial


Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Docks -2 Econ -1 Wealth
Guild Secondary Kilns -1 Econ, -1 Wealth

Expenses:
Econ: -2 (Dam) -2 (Annex x1)-2 (Inf)-2 (army)-3 (Warships) -2 Econ - 1 Kiln= -14; 20->6
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-3(RA)-5(Warships) -1 Docks -1 Kilns = -14; left at 6, whatever

Income:
Econ: 16 ( provincial secondary Expand) = 6 come midturn
Wealth: lol, left at 6 wealth, which is above 5, so no panic.
Martial: total +2 without touching 0.

This does accomplish Dam faster, but leaves us at Econ 6. If we don't get a midturn PSN we are utterly fucked after that.

Or I can do the same but without Annex at all, but with another Expand Econ, which leaves us to 12. That's an option, but "no Great Hall progress" part is really annoying.

EDIT: Like, I just do not understand what would you prefer we do. I don't know how to change plan because I have no idea what do you folks want to accomplish and "does not finish enough thing is immensely frustrating because they are long-term projects.

EDIT2: Nah, lvl2 temple needs 2 Mains, not one. Cannot do it now, not without quote-unquote "not finishing enough things".
 
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My bigger problem is, you aren't solving enough things to convince me things will not be on fire while pursuing a megaproject support policy. You'd have to complete more things than we are physically capable of completing based on what you are assuming is going wrong for me to be okay with it.

To reiterate, because I just do not understand what do you mean: what do you think we should do then?
We can throw away annexes and try Main Raise Army instead of Secondary. It is not "completion" but it does address a concern.
We can do a focus on temples. We can try to finagle some more horses.

I just...my plan explicitly addresses dam, government, navy, diplomacy and colonies. Some of those are physically impossible to complete until we can integrate colonies, another part, trade, must flow until we finish the Dam. Things which can be completed are Dam, Navy and government upgrade - and of those, my plan finished Navy, maybe finishes Dam and is one Annex away from finishing a government upgrade.

I just cannot make heads or tails of what do you mean, sorry. Could you elaborate?
 
We can't solve 15 things at once, not with the actions and stats we have, not if we don't want to leave projects half finished and undone.

So, I am going to ask folks here:

What are the three projects you most want done this turn? Not five, six, or fifteen, but Three Things You Want Done. Think very carefully and come back with a list you would like to see.

Because folks, if you have six things you considered 'critical', then it probably isn't very critical isn't it?

So here are things that folks want in no certain orders:

1) More cavalry
2) More warships
3) A march in TS land
4) Keep the colonies loyal
5) Ensure that Forhurch stay placated while we complete the damn dam.
6) Complete the dam+canal
7) A standing army for the core.
8) Healthy stats. Econ? Wealth?
9) Great Hall Annex

Choose three of them from the list or give your own.

Also note that your number one priority will be given the most effort, second priority some effort, and third least effort.
 
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Spelling it out would be easier for me, but I can work with it.

Dam, Forhuch, and loyalty.

[Main] Great Dam
[secondary] Expand Econ
[secondary] Trade Mission - Forhuch
[secondary] Trade Mission - Forhuch x2
[secondary] Influence Subordinate - Greenshore
[secondary] Switch Policy - Megaproject Support
[Guild] Snail Cultivation
[Guild] Glasswork
[Guild sec] Efficient Charcoal Kiln

2 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 1
3 + 5 + 3
11 - 6 = -5 net econ

-2 + [0-2] + 3 + 1 - 1 = [1..3]+ wealth

Final stat without reaction or PSN:

24 - 5 = 19 econ
14 + [1..3] = [15..18] wealth

A bonus Dam reaction at midturn would put us at five progress, allowing us to complete the Dam with 100% certainty, putting our econ at 17.
 
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We can't solve 15 things at once, not with the actions and stats we have, not if we don't want to leave projects half finished and undone.

So, I am going to ask folks here:

What are the three projects you most want done this turn? Not five, six, or fifteen, but Three Things You Want Done. Think very carefully and come back with a list you would like to see.

Because folks, if you have six things you considered 'critical', then it probably isn't very critical isn't it?

So here are things that folks want in no certain orders:

1) More cavalry
2) More warships
3) A march in TS land
4) Keep the colonies loyal
5) Ensure that Forhurch stay placated while we complete the damn dam.
6) Complete the dam+canal
7) A standing army for the core.
8) Healthy stats. Econ? Wealth?
9) Great Hall Annex

Choose three of them from the list or give your own.

I think we can accomplish more than 3 (or less if most expensive are picked), but I like the point you are making here.

9, 6, 2.

*looks at list again*
Well.
I can squeeze out horsies too, I think. But it'd definitely require dropping to 1 action per Dam and govt upgrade.


Main Great Dam -2 Econ
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Great Hall Annex -2 Econ
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary More Spiritbonded -2 Econ, -5 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 LC
Secondary Expand Econ +6 Econ

Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Cash Crops? -3 Econ +7 Wealth?
Guild Secondary Docks -1 Econ


Expenses:
Econ: -2 (Dam) -2 (Annex)-2 (Inf)-2 (Ponies)-3 (Warships) - 1 Dock -3(cash crops)= -15;
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-5(Ponies)-5(Warships) -1 Docks -1 Kilns = -16; left at 4, aaah

Income:
Econ: +6 (Expand) + 12 ( provincial Main Expand) = 18 come midturn
Wealth: 4+7? = 11?
Martial: total -1, but +1 cav +1 Navy.

This way we get 1 cav, but only 1 annex and 1 Dam progress. Dunno if it's a good idea, but whatever.
 
I just cannot make heads or tails of what do you mean, sorry. Could you elaborate?

I think this is quickly approaching a different problem.

You're too desperate to make a plan that people agree to when we will have the midturn to stir up any plans we make by a significant amount with the React vote, the Megaproject bonus, the results of Hunting Troublemakers, and whatever the dice throw at us. There is a difference between making plans of general things we want to aim for and trying to make an exact plan of actions to take.

I see several problems I have with your plan, but I will absolutely not comment on how to make it better because I know the actions of the midturn will change various parts of it. Wait for the update, this level of planning is neither critical nor going to hold water and we will have plenty of time to plan in between the update and the next one.

If anything you should be thinking what things we should do for the midturn actions.
We can't solve 15 things at once, not with the actions and stats we have, not if we don't want to leave projects half finished and undone.

So, I am going to ask folks here:

What are the three projects you most want done this turn? Not five, six, or fifteen, but Three Things You Want Done. Think very carefully and come back with a list you would like to see.

Because folks, if you have six things you considered 'critical', then it probably isn't very critical isn't it?

So here are things that folks want in no certain orders:

1) More cavalry
2) More warships
3) A march in TS land
4) Keep the colonies loyal
5) Ensure that Forhurch stay placated while we complete the damn dam.
6) Complete the dam+canal
7) A standing army for the core.
8) Healthy stats. Econ? Wealth?
9) Great Hall Annex

Choose three of them from the list or give your own.

Also note that your number one priority will be given the most effort, second priority some effort, and third least effort.
I am less concerned with a plan at the moment, but in the interest of getting people to understand my stance.
  1. More Warships: They will help us connect with the western colonies and help both ensure loyalty and re-enforce as needed
  2. March in TS land: It is a closing opportunity that will be well served by getting started earlier. It is also a fire and forget action.
  3. Great Hall Annexes: Advancement of the government should improve the efficiency of our action economy.
Yes, I'm aware of a major problem with doing those next turn. That is a large part of why I'm waiting for the mid turn.
 
Is rhere any chance that mercenary companies help suppress the "Trouble" that free cities can cause? Do we want two more mercenary companies (and two more marketplaces) in the nearish future to help offset having two more free cities?

As to the megaprojects: I'm not interested in rushing them right now. I want more roads, more forests, more baths, more cavalry, more annexes, and a larger navy first. A sedate 1-2 megaproject actions per turn is fast enough for me until we get the government upgrade.
 
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Is rhere any chance that mercenary companies help suppress the "Trouble" that free cities can cause? Do we want two more mercenary companies (and two more marketplaces) in the nearish future to help offset having two more free cities?

As to the megaprojects: I'm not interested in rushing them right now. I want more roads, more forests, more baths, more cavalry, more annexes, and a larger navy first. A sedate 1-2 megaproject actions per turn is fast enough for me until we get the government upgrade.

That sounds like a very stupid idea.

The Banner Companies are professional soldiers, not policemen.
 
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