- Location
- Hell
*Remembers D.F.*
*Sees who said this*
...why is it a bad idea again? @_@
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
*Sees who said this*
...why is it a bad idea again? @_@
I'ma bit surprised we got no legacies for surviving the megadeath-plague with so many cities at the start and with (I think) 3 actual cities still alive afterwards.
@Academia Nut , sorry to keep asking about it - I'm just uncertain on if this is intentional or not.
@Academia Nut , sorry to keep asking about it - I'm just uncertain on if this is intentional or not.
If AN gives us unique legacies for surviving all kind of crisis, I am pretty sure we will win forever barring complete mismanagement.
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- Austria
Yeah, but why no EE slots needed though? It's basically better agriculture, and this leads to trying to find a catch.
I would understand the "all kinds of Crisis"-problem, but we are talking of one where he himself completely expected us to croak. Let's not forget the Nomad Banzai that happened at the same time, too.
It does cost tech though, no?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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City support does cost Tech actually.
See here.
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- Austria
Eh. We *are* built for resistance. It's same as givibg Trelli wealth bonus - they had (and we have) values and wonders for it.
Although I am very surprised our tradition of strategic grain reserve is not a Value/Legacy.
Ah. Thanks, my bad.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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We would already have a stack of legacies if this was the case.
I really really doubt he's all that inclined to give them for the simple reason that such a legacy would make surviving for longer easier. Which is not how it works in real life, and in fact sometimes is actually the opposite of how it works, and AN is trying to be mostly realistic.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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Incorrect. He expected that, with decent luck (which we absolutely got, and then some) and good play (which we more or less had) we would survive but lose territory - as, in fact, we did. Notice the conspicuous absence of the Thunder Speakers.
The land which our other vassal immediately gobbled up?
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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Not completely, we still have an option to found a new March there.
The physical land is already allocated I think. Suburban development was always very dynamic and changing, so effectively we're converting the urban work camp sites into farm sites?
It costs Tech now since we need to equip them properly though.
Its like how Passive infrastructure can build otherwise expensive structures for free. The land and manpower were already around, but it WAS functionally a state level rounding error which our cities let us squeeze out by shoving a lot of people together for efficiencies of scale.
Also worth keeping in mind that legacies mechanically work by being a powerful piece of cultural zeitgeist. They always work with something that People could achieve from motivation alone. Look at what they each do:
-Reformers - Our people believe social reform is to be celebrated and that all the effort invested should be reflected in the stories and artwork of the People's struggles
-Rush Builders - We've built two projects nobody thought could be done in forty years EACH before in twenty years. Which translates to our managers being more generous in resource and manpower allocation. Can't let the ancients show you up. We can do it faster!
-Rage Against the Steppes - This works more or less like the Crusades did. We entered such a level of collective frenzy that EVERYONE remembers the Steppe threat, and will always welcome pruning this infestation.
-Early Iron Bringers - We have a substantial body of legends about the collective struggles of the People to seize and wield the power of iron from the gods. Likely analogous to China's own pursuit of the elixer of immortality, there's always someone trying to push the limits of material sciences for that.
-Steel Blooded - This one here is more about our crazy dedication to farming. When we seized the weapons of the gods, we used it to farm. So we farm really freaking good.
-City Killers - Well, this is the Iron Age era equivalent of being the first ones to have used nuclear weapons. We broke the unbreakable, and so our people, drawing from those tales, can threaten this. Probably would become obsolete once true siegecraft becomes widespread.
-The King Still Stands/Kings Do Not Kneel - This would be like the Roman national pride. We stand tall and proud and the world KNOWS this. We make sure they know it. They feel dread and waver at the idea. Our youth volunteer to war to protect our status as the greatest nation in the world. It's basically proto-nationalism.
-Star Callers - This is as much legal precedent as anything else
-Hollowed Gold/Pure Gold/Golden Wonders - Much like Early Iron Bringers, we have these legends to inspire people to push the limits.
-Early Empire/Protected Core/One of Each/Vassal Lords/Mercenary Leader/Urbanizers - Nothing too complicated. People believe subordinates of these types are normal, so it takes less effort to enforce and maintain them.
So drawing from the above, a disaster survival legacy would be something that people could have accomplished from morale alone. Something like:
Apocalypse Cancelers: Gain bonus Legitimacy(allowed to exceed the cap) when you help your neighbors avert collapse during a regional disaster and succeed.
Though obviously this specific form is impossible for us. We tend to collapse our neighbors instead during disasters.
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- Staring into the void
But we do it in the most passive ways. When we tried to force it, it failed horribly.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
What's df?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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When we come up with catapults, possibly. Though really humans don't need that much of an excuse to try flinging great balls of fire at their enemies
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- Austria
Okay, while there is no update, I got thinking about next main turn and plans for it.
Assumptions:
1. Going in with Econ 20 Wealth 20 after hypothetical PSN trigger with us taking cash crops for -4 Econ +7 Wealth. Without we will have 24 Econ 13 Wealth which is even easier to work with anyway.
2. No other vote in midturn because we have literally no clue what can it be so guessing is pointless.
Main Great Hall Annex -4 Econ -4 Culture (who cares about culture cost tho)
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Change Policy MP Support
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial
Secondary Expand Econ +6 Econ
Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Porcelain Works -2 Econ +2 Wealth
Guild Secondary Docks -1 Econ
Expenses:
Econ: -4 (Annex x2))-2 (Inf)-2 (army)-3 (Warships) -2 Porcelain - 1 Docks= -14; 6 more free to spend - enough for provinces to take their 3 Dam actions
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-3(RA)-5(Warships)= -12; left at 8, need 10+ to not lose Stability
Income:
Econ: +6 (Expand) + 6 ( provincial secondary Expand) = 12 come midturn
Wealth: +2(Porcelain): Wealth 10
Martial: total +2 without touching 0.
Concerns addressed:
Separate not about navy: a guarantee of secure travel (Naval 4 is nothing to sneeze at) is going to be a boon to connectivity along the shore I imagine, so it can count as indirect influence vector on subordinates there.
Note, it's all very back-of-the-envelope since we have no idea what happens at midturn. But the act of planning still should help with hashing out the real plan when the time comes.
Thoughts?
Assumptions:
1. Going in with Econ 20 Wealth 20 after hypothetical PSN trigger with us taking cash crops for -4 Econ +7 Wealth. Without we will have 24 Econ 13 Wealth which is even easier to work with anyway.
2. No other vote in midturn because we have literally no clue what can it be so guessing is pointless.
Main Great Hall Annex -4 Econ -4 Culture (who cares about culture cost tho)
Secondary TM - Forchuh/Invite Forchuh: -2 Wealth/some Diplo whatever
Secondary Change Policy MP Support
Secondary Influence Greenshore -2 Econ, Wealth and lots of else
Secondary Raise Army -3 Wealth, -2 Econ, +5 Martial
Secondary Expand Econ +6 Econ
Guild Main More Warships -3 Econ -3 Martial, -5 Wealth, +2 Naval
Guild Main Porcelain Works -2 Econ +2 Wealth
Guild Secondary Docks -1 Econ
Expenses:
Econ: -4 (Annex x2))-2 (Inf)-2 (army)-3 (Warships) -2 Porcelain - 1 Docks= -14; 6 more free to spend - enough for provinces to take their 3 Dam actions
Wealth: -2 (TM)-2(Inf)-3(RA)-5(Warships)= -12; left at 8, need 10+ to not lose Stability
Income:
Econ: +6 (Expand) + 6 ( provincial secondary Expand) = 12 come midturn
Wealth: +2(Porcelain): Wealth 10
Martial: total +2 without touching 0.
Concerns addressed:
- connectivity (3 Dam actions - means it has a chance of completion even); also, docks
- feeding capital (Dam)
- government upgrade (Great Hall x2 for a total of Great Hall x5)
- NOMADS (slight Martial growth + placating ex-nomads to the east via trade)
- navy for trader quest + preparing for possible war with someone around Yllthon
- influencing western subordinates
- lack of cultural glue (no temples, no theaters)
- no roads
- taking Porcelain without Forestries is actively harmful to our safety margin of forests
Separate not about navy: a guarantee of secure travel (Naval 4 is nothing to sneeze at) is going to be a boon to connectivity along the shore I imagine, so it can count as indirect influence vector on subordinates there.
Note, it's all very back-of-the-envelope since we have no idea what happens at midturn. But the act of planning still should help with hashing out the real plan when the time comes.
Thoughts?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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We have bounced off of between 5 and 10 wealth before with out triggering the Guilds getting nervous. Less than 5 is the trigger, so you can switch the porcelain for something else.
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- Austria
As per last update, 10 is the trigger:
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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That is post-panic. Recall during the Second Sons we bounced off of like 7 or 8 and nothing happened.
From what I can tell the trigger is "If less than five, get above 10 to prevent stab loss, get above X to gain a stab instead".
Same thing happened the first time we lost wealth.
In fact I actually distinctly remember sitting at 7 wealth during one of our past few turns recently, and they did not make a peep.
Lemme go see if I can find the Abby diffs.
Nope. Thats the level they need to feel safe after. The panic point is much lower
- Location
- Austria
Ah. You mean (like Oni apparenly does) that this is just the effect of their panic from being at Wealth 4 this main turn?
I am unsure that's the case, but let's hope so, hah.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Its how it was the last time we got on this merry go round.
I couldn't find the update this last happened, I'll keep looking, but here is a quote from page 3570.
This is just after Epic Age VI, 32 updates ago.
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Basically the guilds panic only if they think they might actually run out of money for reals(i.e. Wealth <5 can be driven to 0 on a bad combo), after which you need extra wealth to reassure them that no, everything is fine.