Stop: The iron age is over but the irony age lives on
the iron age is over but the irony age lives on @Alratan and @Kiba, you have both spaghetti posted several times in this and this post, respectively. To @Kiba I shall give a warning for marginal behaviour and a request to not repeat themself, as this is a first offense, and to @Alratan I shall give 25 points, as he is an older user and really should know better.

And finally, @highs2lows will have a warning for marginal behaviour for his abuse of the funny rating on this post.
 
Eh. Maybe I was wrong about this part.
@Academia Nut ,what does our diplomatic advisor say about the degree of placateness/friendliness of Forchuh?
Does sending manual trade missions guarantee continued peace?
Does not sending those have a chance of war?
 
Actually, before that, who are those Forchuh in the first place? Like, are they settled nomads in the former MH territory, or the civilization on the Salt Sea, or some combination of those? Because I wouldn't think that nomads that settled here this generation would've already trade across the Salt Sea or bring salt from there.
 
I suspect they are nomads who used to protect the salt sea route, absorbed some of the fleeing nomads, and then some part broke off to come here and continue protecting the trade route between east and west, because it's incredibly lucrative.
 
I wonder if we could use something like Influence Subordinate on them to help them set up as a sedentary civilization.

As they basically just settled down and the Mountain Horse were basically exterminated, odds are they have hardly a clue how agriculture works.

It would be an interesting way to culturally assimilate them. And for me, reason enough to keep sending Trade Missions their way so their entire oral history is full of mentions of good relationships with the Ymaryn.
 
That sounds like a very stupid idea.

The Banner Companies are professional soldiers, not policemen.
It really comes down to what the Trouble mechanic represents. Considering that it is only present in free cities, rather than all true cities, it would seem that it has little to do with low-level criminal activity, or even urban unrest in general. Instead, it has something to do with a free city's increased autonomy. I would hazard a guess and say that a free city with colossal walls could quickly subvert the local military forces to their cause instead of the nation's. With a strong defensive setup, independent military forces, and relatively strong economic influence, it would be fairly easy for our free cities to start making demands from the rest of our polity.

Fortunately, our panem policy has increased the dependence of the free cities, and we do have a decent intrigue score to warn us of any problems. I would still feel much more comfortable if we had enough mercenary companies (with 4-5 loyalty) that we could theoretically lay siege to all of our free cities at once, while still having the rest of our army free to deal with potential other issues*. Normally having that many mercenary companies would be prohibitively expensive, but each marketplace can pay for a mercenary company all on its own.

*Potential deployments: 1 March, 1 Trading Post, 2 Vassals, 3 Colonies, 5 Free Cities, 6 neighbor polities, and steppe nomads.
 
I suspect they are nomads who used to protect the salt sea route, absorbed some of the fleeing nomads, and then some part broke off to come here and continue protecting the trade route between east and west, because it's incredibly lucrative.
Possible that they showed up to see why the porcelain and dye trade cut off. A lot of nomad groups really DO want to settle, but all the good land are already taken and fortified.
I doubt they absorbed much of the fleeing tribe though.

They'd have had worse disease problems if they did.
It really comes down to what the Trouble mechanic represents. Considering that it is only present in free cities, rather than all true cities, it would seem that it has little to do with low-level criminal activity, or even urban unrest in general. Instead, it has something to do with a free city's increased autonomy. I would hazard a guess and say that a free city with colossal walls could quickly subvert the local military forces to their cause instead of the nation's. With a strong defensive setup, independent military forces, and relatively strong economic influence, it would be fairly easy for our free cities to start making demands from the rest of our polity.
Noting that Panem gives us a bonus to trouble rolls.
The classic Free City problems are:
-Cultural friction. Under their own internal management and with a high population that never sees anyone else but each other, Free Cities are cultural reactors which generates cultural friction with the countryside(you see this even today) due to changing all the time
-Political friction. The governor of Free City Redshore no doubt will have friction with the governor of Province Sacred Shore because of jurisdiction disputes where they while the provincial governor has greater power, the city mayor can overrule him on local matters.
-Economic friction. We already see this already. The cities have an insatiable demand for metal, fabric, dye and manpower, which means very different economic drives.
-Corruption. The governor controls corruption a lot, certainly, but also has enough latitude to set city ordinances which further formalize organized crime(or lobbyists, it's really hard to distinguish the two at our level of abstraction). Panem helps here too, the lower classes don't have the kind of incentive to crime that concerns with subsistence could inspire.

But, while the Urban Poor are fed at state expense...well there is incentive to maintain jolly cooperation
Fortunately, our panem policy has increased the dependence of the free cities, and we do have a decent intrigue score to warn us of any problems. I would still feel much more comfortable if we had enough mercenary companies (with 4-5 loyalty) that we could theoretically lay siege to all of our free cities at once, while still having the rest of our army free to deal with potential other issues*. Normally having that many mercenary companies would be prohibitively expensive, but each marketplace can pay for a mercenary company all on its own.
This part here meanwhile is completely wrongheaded. Free cities do not tend to present a credible military threat. They depend too much on the rest of the country that they can't really expect to win anything , though they can and do try to protect their interests. You will never see multiple free cities need suppressing at once unless the whole country is about to go like a powder keg.

Especially when the cities don't really see the provinces as rivals(after all they don't make the same goods), but DO see each other as rivals.
 
This part here meanwhile is completely wrongheaded. Free cities do not tend to present a credible military threat. They depend too much on the rest of the country that they can't really expect to win anything , though they can and do try to protect their interests. You will never see multiple free cities need suppressing at once unless the whole country is about to go like a powder keg.

Especially when the cities don't really see the provinces as rivals(after all they don't make the same goods), but DO see each other as rivals.
it isn't about being a credible military threat. It about them having enough relative power that the central polity is no longer able to casually threaten the leaders if they start causing too many problems.

So long as the leaders of the free cities keep the damage caused by their malfeasance below the cost to deal with said malfeasance, they know that they are fine. The more free cities there are, the less attention that the central polity can pay to any single free city. Combining the increase in free cities with the upcoming proliferation of colossal walls (which raises the cost to deal with any single city), will allow their leadership to act with less restraint.

The goal of having more mercenary companies is to allow the central polity to deal with more issues simultaneously, thus decreasing the degree that any given city will act against the broader polity. If we have enough mercenary companies/martial to siege every single free city at once, it is incredibly unlikely that we'll ever need to siege any free city. If we have many more free cities than we have mercenary companies/martial, it is very likely that they will take advantage of another crisis to advance their agenda.

Of course, the broader reason why I'm pushing for 1 mercenary company per free city is that a free city with a marketplace pays for the mercenary company (-1 econ, +1 culture, +1 wealth), and having a near 1 mercenary company:1 free city:1 landed vassal:1 neighbor ratio seems very stable. The same reasoning that applies to keeping the free cities cowed also applies to our landed vassals and neighbors.
 
Yeah, mercenaries always bite you in the backside, in the end. The best long term solution would be to turn our mercenary companies into something like the French Foreign Legion.
 
Speaking of free cities, we're probably the only people in the region to have any. Khem is too Divine Rule to allow free cities, Freehills has all of one major city site that they just got and don't want to give up, the Highland Kingdom doesn't want us to steal the city out from under them, and the Storm People and Ashen Ones are too nomadic. Harmurri might, and we don't know much about Saffron Isles, so they could, but we probably don't have to rush.

How expensive are sailing exploration missions? Send one into the Mediterranean, find out new things, make new friends, make new maps.
 
I didn't know how far we had explored that's why I stated my preference. But if we have already done that then yes, we really should send ships through the strait of Bosporus.
 
Maybe we ought to send a merc company up the river and check on Amber Road? MC can play caravan guard with our influence subordinate to AR, and get rid of have polite conversation with any uppity tribes there.

We are still waiting for those giant forest to come down.:ogles:
 
Too many mercenaries is worse than too many free cities.
That is definitely true. The question then is what qualifies as too many mercenary companies? I think everyone can agree that having more mercenary companies than you can permanently pay for is disastrous, as is going over our subordinate limit, but is there a lower limit than those? I expect so. I'm pretty sure that the Trelli were running six+ mercenary companies before the great war and that they were able to keep them in line until their sources of income ran out, so I'm not sure where that limit is.

Noting that Panem gives us a bonus to trouble rolls.
Sorry to double quote you, I should have brought this up in my original response. Panem says that we get a bonus to "Urban challenge" rolls, not trouble rolls. Urban rolls apply to every city.* Do we have WoG that trouble rolls are a subset of urban rolls?

*We know its hurt us at least once for a non-free city, although I'm not sure if it has hit us in a free city.
 
That is definitely true. The question then is what qualifies as too many mercenary companies? I think everyone can agree that having more mercenary companies than you can permanently pay for is disastrous, as is going over our subordinate limit, but is there a lower limit than those? I expect so. I'm pretty sure that the Trelli were running six+ mercenary companies before the great war and that they were able to keep them in line until their sources of income ran out, so I'm not sure where that limit is.


Sorry to double quote you, I should have brought this up in my original response. Panem says that we get a bonus to "Urban challenge" rolls, not trouble rolls. Urban rolls apply to every city.* Do we have WoG that trouble rolls are a subset of urban rolls?

*We know its hurt us at least once for a non-free city, although I'm not sure if it has hit us in a free city.
Trelli had a shit ton of money tho
And basically had to keep half of their mercs constantly farming cash through slave raids and such to keep their income up.

We want to treat them as elite military units, not just bodies to throw around.

I would say we should have five companies max, and only if we have a huuuuuge excess in wealth.

We should also only create companies through double main raise army from now on.
Just to get that professional army vibe going strong.
 
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That's the problem: market comes and goes, so any excess is going to be temporary.
You mean the market extended project?

That's basically permenant so long as we have them in Free Cities.

If we complete the Urban Poor quest, and the Grand Bazzar acts as some have speculated (internal trading) then we should have at least enough wealth at all times to pay for all all our merc companies

Unless we have another civilization ending plague, at which point most standard situations and options don't really matter.

I'm not saying to immediately jump to five companies, though it will likely give us a legacy, I'm saying that should be our max for the forseeeable future.
 
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