- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Every city grants a mauls to disease rolls...
Facing a new mega plague ever 4-5 turns will kill us.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Facing a new mega plague ever 4-5 turns will kill us.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
clearly the social code we need is something like Sikhism, but thats going to be hard to pull off without a rigid caste system to rebel against
Seriously, it has everything we want: charity, egalitarianism, commandments towards right action and compassion, and hygienic living
Seriously, it has everything we want: charity, egalitarianism, commandments towards right action and compassion, and hygienic living
- Location
- Australia
Say what you will about Purity this is why we may want to keep it.
- Location
- Austria
Capital cannot be Free City. Sacred Forest will not be made one cause religious capital. It means 5 other True Cities. It means >=7 True Cities, which is, total, ~a million or more of urban-only population in a civ of 5-6 millions.
That was a conservative estimate.
I'd rather avoid >=20% urbanization at ~1500 BC because we lack social tools to deal with them, IIRC.
- Location
- Australia
We should not become assholes just for a bit of extra disease resistance.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Glad to see you finally embrace the light!
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
We already have needs of many outweighs needs of few, so it's not out of character.
Just need more symphony to make uniformity a requirement for living.
Assuming 100,000 per True City as lower bound. We would have 700,000 out of a population of five million or 14%.
Wiki has this to say about Roman Empire urbanization.
We're comparable to the Roman Empire in term of urbanization, which is a bit insane.
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DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Sorry where did i say this was a good thing? never. Trickle down economics doesnt work
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
I don't see why SF shouldn't be a fc. It both reduces our load, gives benifits, and being a holy city does not mean one ruled by the clergy mind you. Strong clerical influence? Sure. But outright rule is not something that happens instantly.
And even clerical rule of the city is a non issue, as it's a localised writ. Not to mention it'd give the faith the space it needs to develop in all sorts of interesting ways, and maybe turn the city into a full fledged holy place rich in art and extravagance.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It should be fairly painless for one at 0 Trouble.
Probably not what you mean, but a social value slot gives us another social tool to deal with them!
Also, how does our urbanization compare to Classical era civilizations? We're behind in other areas, but that's where we're at governmentally - and do you think our government development corresponds to social tools or are you talking about something else there?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Only if the reds have a say in the matter.
Many things tend to not work in thier presence.
Comparable to the Roman Empire around 1st century AD with ten times less the population.
- Location
- Austria
1. 100 000 is requirement to become one, most should be bigger.
2. Redshore is lvl2 city with double that, at least.
1. Slot will be taken by Division of Power, which does not address the FCs. Although its evolutions might.
2. Now? Not that high. 7 TCs are Imperial Rome's Italy = 18th century Europe level.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm, in some ways it's not as much of a problem at lower population, since some of the problems are from the actual size of the city rather than the proportion of people in cities, I would think, anyway.
I mean, we're less concerned about 10 Level 1 Cities than 5 Level 2 Cities, right? And Free Cities are more advanced, socially, so we ought to be at least a little bit less concerned about 5 Free Cities than 5 True Cities. Further, we do benefit from an additional Legacy for hitting 5 Free Cities.
Now, if 7 is too many cities, then that doesn't necessarily mean that this is fine, but if 7 is merely our limit then those factors should make us more comfortable.
- Location
- indeterminate, possibly non-existent
- Pronouns
- Any
Honestly, I think this quest isn't worth it. Not only does it make it likely we'll start seeing some of the major downsides of free cities, it'll require several actions both to create them and in dealing with future problems. Though we're not currently burning to the ground, we have several problems we need to deal with to prevent further crises, like building up our navy to deal with the Storm People, and getting at least two megaprojects done. We simply have too many things to do to chase a shiny. Also, we still need to deal with the problems from the last value slot we got, and we should mitigate purity before gaining another value.
- Location
- Australia
It's "We should not stay assholes just for a bit of extra disease resistance." We have Purity now it is already as bad as it gets.
As for the 7 True Cities thing, it is alot If we go for it we may need to turn Sacred Forest into a free city just to keep the number down.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
yeah I think it's worth making Sacred Forest a free city.
Well, it has a 3 turn clock, so we have some time to decide. It's also nice to increase Urban Poor faction power and get another point of Legitimacy available.
And the advantages of always having those 10 passive policies online is very attractive. The AI policies could gain us 5 Martial during a war, for instance, or turn on 5 Vassal Support policies to do a fourth of a Secondary Influence action on each subordinate. Or plant 2.5 Sustainable Forests or build 5 Significant Walls.
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Oh my, they know how to get us alright.
*Watches the Yeomen quest burn*
...is there a Legacy for Five of a given vassal type?
Its complicated. But as vassals go Free Cities are relatively easy to keep in line with a strongly centralized government.5 free cities?i can't tell whether that's supposed to hint to us that its safe to do so, or if my instinct to avoid that many semi independent powerful cities is right...
I'd probably say no on Blackmouth, because thats the only other Block Housing capable city we have, which basically means that we'd encounter a lot of difficulty reurbanizing in the future if they get Block Housing.
If Valleyhome unlocks Block Housing then I'm more open to the idea. Lower Valleyhome is a definite yes though.
Existing:
-Redshore - Already Free
-Redhills - Already Free
-Valleyguard - Already Free
Easy options:
-Lower Valleyhome - Pending promotion. No expected problems.
-Sacred Forest - Complicated situation with Independent Priesthood. On the other hand its basically right next to the capital.
-Blackmouth - Complicated situation with Block Housing math causing non-free cities to pop. If Dam unlocks Block Housing for Valleyhome, it should be fine however. Also complicated because it's sort of our Western political nexus and already has its own Palace.
-Stallion Pen - Complicated situation with distance from core. Temple site may cause further complications with independent priesthood.
Hard options(i.e. needs aqueducts):
-Stonepen - Already contains a temple and observatory. Temple site may cause further complications with independent priesthood.
-Hatmouth - Far from core, near Freehills.
-Yellowshore - Far from core, near Western Wall
So personal preference for City promotion:
-Valleyguard - No expected problems.
-Sacred Forest - If a Free Temple City causes problems it's RIGHT next door to the palace. We can expect such problems to become visible sooner.
Horrifying!
Interesting. So if nomads come after the Passage is built they'd suddenly get flanked by an army pouring out of the impassable hills from Txolla, or if Txolla gets attacked the Heaven's Hawks can reinforce them.
Nifty.
The quest timer's is 3 turns with a rare reward attached to it. If anything, it's going to be at the bottom of our list.
Also, a Free City means less management and headache for us, and improved overall crisis response since they don't have to wait for a King to manage their problem for them. We should make them, or otherwise the central bureaucracy will be responsible for them.
And if we don't want the headache of cities, we should just make plans to pop them by increasing LTE. After all, nobody says that Free Cities have to be active beyond the objective of the quest.
- Location
- Austria
> free cities
>less management
That remains to be seen.
I mean, I can easily see them pulling us into becoming city confederation aka Greece if we are not careful.
Come to think of it, I do not get one thing.
@Academia Nut , why does City Support not cost EE and tech? What, exactly, does it entail? Where are people being fed from?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Why not make Valleyhome a free city?
It was standard practice in all empires for the capital city and the Royal court/Palace to have two distinct administrations, afterall, ruling an empire whilst having to also manage a metropolis is too much unnecessary work for the ruling body.
As it is, the palace is the seat of government, having valley home be a free city is a non issue.
Should anything major happen, the palace is right next to it and can either see it coming or crackdown.
Not to mention the fact the the seat of government is in it will make it naturally subservient and in good relationship with the palace, afterall, a large segment of it economy is focused on servicing the Court, courtiers and visitors.
It might even develop fully into a service city or art/intellectual city, since its the place where all the people of means, influence and aspirations gather.
Suburban agriculture as was done historically I believe.
And it's not going to pull us into a city confederation unless our Centralization drops below 1. We already know the centralization caps of confederacies.
Free cities =/= city league.
Its currently literally impossible. Valleyhome's administration is not distinguished from the seat of the crown administration. If you asked a clerk they'd wonder if you've been smoking something good.
Our Free Cities are granted additional authorities to set laws and manage economic activity to the city governor because the turnaround time for the crown to respond to another city is too long. Valleyhome does not benefit from that.